retirement Outside the US More Rhetoric than Reality

[NW-Bound]

I found earlier discussions on septic tanks interesting. My 2nd home which is in the boondocks uses a traditional septic tank with a leach field. We do not use our plumbing any differently than what we do in our city home with public sewage. What is the big deal? I repeat, we do not do anything differently.

I guess if I let the toilet runs non-stop, eventually the flow may overcome the leach field and it may back up. Or if we both take hour-long showers simultaneously, that might also cause a problem. They say not to flush dental floss or dump coffee ground down the sink, etc..., but we do not do that even with city sewage. There is no smell, absolutely none over the leach field, which is just right outside the house.

Could it be because we are in a dry climate, and the soil is so permeable that we do not have the same problem as do people in rainy places where the soil is constantly wet? I can imagine that the effluent might get to the surface if the water table is high.

By the way, we passed the "perc test" so were able to have a normal leach field. A neighbor 500ft down the road from us had to install an aerobic system like REWahoo's because he had more limestone underneath, while we had more sandstone. Walking by his property, we never smell anything either.

PS. There is no regular maintenance on the septic system. I guess if it overflows, we would need to have it pumped. But with just the two of us, and being there part-time at that, it won't be for a long time.

[Throwdownmyaceinthehole]

My .02. I live in one of the most beautiful places on earth - just south of Perth Australia. Live on the water, 50 steps to the ocean, which I could never afford in the US. Low crime, beautiful weather, somethings more 1st world than the US. I've got my hubby and my beloved little dog with me. Been lucky enough to travel the world - Jamaica, Suriname, England, Thailand, with work over the past 6 years. Work now pays me a buttload, paying all my expenses with paid vacation every 13 weeks. Just this year been to the Great Barrier reef, Phuket and headed to South Africa in a few weeks. No matter how good it is, I just want to be back home......

[Danmar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcowan and Canada. Juxtapose wealthy with poor and you get property crimes. The Jane-Finch area of Toronto is such an example. Yet Toronto is considered a safe city in general. So far, they have not resorted to gated communities to solve it.

Got your point but Jane/Finch is a long way (in several ways) from Rosedale or Forest Hill. Certainly not side by side. If there is violent crime it is usually in those locations like Jane/ Finch or sometimes downtown where the bad guys go for " some fun" and shot innocent bystanders. Maybe we should subsidize " shooting school" so they could be better shots?

[growing_older]

Are people concerned about collecting Social Security when living in India, Mexico or other countries? As I understand the restrictions, any of these places should be no problem.

Quote:

U.S. Treasury regulations U.S. Department of the Treasury regulations prohibit sending payments to you if you are in Cuba or North Korea. If you are a U.S. citizen and are in Cuba or North Korea, you can receive all of your withheld payments once you leave that country and go to another country where we can send payments. Generally, if you are not a U.S. citizen, you cannot receive any payments for months in which you live in one of these countries, even if you leave that country and satisfy all other requirements. Social Security restrictions Social Security restrictions prohibit sending payments to individuals in Cambodia, Vietnam or areas that were in the former Soviet Union (other than Armenia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Russia). Generally, you cannot receive payments while you are in one of these countries, and we cannot send your payments to anyone for you. However, exceptions can be made for certain eligible beneficiaries in countries with Social Security restrictions in place.

[NYEXPAT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by growing_older Are people concerned about collecting Social Security when living in India, Mexico or other countries? As I understand the restrictions, any of these places should be no problem.

It is really not an issue anymore, If you can not receive direct deposit in your adopted country and no longer have banking in the US, then they have established a "debit card" system. You can use the debit card in any store or take out your money via ATM.

[Free_at_49]

As a full-time EU resident I would become taxable there on my worldwide income, so if I renounce my US citizenship...

-- Will I loose the Social Security payments to which I’m entitled?

-- Can I still keep my US IRA generating US income? I think it’s too expensive to cash out a large IRA due to income tax.

-- Will I still be eligible for Medicare should I choose to travel to the US?

Anybody with personal experiences?

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free_at_49 As a full-time EU resident I would become taxable there on my worldwide income, so if I renounce my US citizenship... -- Will I loose the Social Security payments to which I’m entitled? -- Can I still keep my US IRA generating US income? I think it’s too expensive to cash out a large IRA due to income tax. -- Will I still be eligible for Medicare should I choose to travel to the US? Anybody with personal experiences?

No personal experience other than as a USA resident paying into SS and 401k and IRA's for many years before I became a US citizen.

AFAIK, SS and IRA's should be no problem if you renounce citizenship and reside overseas, but not Medicare. For Medicare, citizenship is not required but you need to be a US resident.

Medicare.gov - Medicare Eligibility Tool (General Enrollment)

[Free_at_49]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan No personal experience other than as a USA resident paying into SS and 401k and IRA's for many years before I became a US citizen. AFAIK, SS and IRA's should be no problem if you renounce citizenship and reside overseas, but not Medicare. For Medicare, citizenship is not required but you need to be a US resident. Medicare.gov - Medicare Eligibility Tool (General Enrollment)

Thank you. So they'll pay Social Security to non-citizens? That's good. And on my IRA income I'll be taxed as a non-resident alien? I'd cash it out, but income tax on ½-milion+ would be confiscatory.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free_at_49 Thank you. So they'll pay Social Security to non-citizens? That's good. And on my IRA income I'll be taxed as a non-resident alien? I'd cash it out, but income tax on ½-milion+ would be confiscatory.

That is how I understand it. If you are resident in a European country they may well have a tax treaty with the USA so that you won't be double taxed. In fact, before giving up your US citizenship to avoid taxes, I would first research the tax treaty between your intended country of residence and the US.

You may want to read this thread from a couple of years ago.

http://www.early-retirement.org/foru...hip-50055.html

[theOAP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free_at_49 Thank you. So they'll pay Social Security to non-citizens? That's good. And on my IRA income I'll be taxed as a non-resident alien? I'd cash it out, but income tax on ½-milion+ would be confiscatory.

If you intend to renounce US Citizenship, I assume you will have a second citizenship. The US won't let you renounce unless you do.

When attempting to renounce US citizenship, and if your assets are above a certain level, you'll be taxed by the IRS on your (taxable) assets before you're allowed to renounce.

If you're resident abroad, you can enroll in both Medicare Parts A and B if you qualify. But as you indicate, you can only use it when you are in the US, and at no time in the EU.

https://questions.medicare.gov/faq.p...007&faqId=3971

(US citizenship is not required IF you qualify for Medicare.)

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theOAP If you're resident abroad, you can enroll in both Medicare Parts A and B if you qualify. But as you indicate, you can only use it when you are in the US, and at no time in the EU. https://questions.medicare.gov/faq.p...007&faqId=3971 (US citizenship is not required IF you qualify for Medicare.)

Are you certain that this is true of non-US citizens who are not residents in the USA? The Medicare site seems to indicate otherwise.

I added the bold in the quote below which says you have to be a US citizen if you are not resident in the US:

Quote:

Generally, you are eligible for Medicare if you or your spouse worked for at least 10 years in Medicare-covered employment and you are 65 years or older and a citizen or permanent resident of the United States. If you aren’t yet 65, you might also qualify for coverage if you have a disability or with End-Stage Renal disease (permanent kidney failure requiring dialysis or transplant).

[theOAP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Are you certain that this is true of non-US citizens who are not residents in the USA?

Generalities will never cover all of this () but yes, from personal experience, a non-US citizen who has never lived or worked in the US (and still doesn't) can receive US Social Security. It's the "or your spouse" that's the qualifier. From that situation, they are then qualified for Medicare (if the spouse is qualified). In the case I'm familiar with, it's due to the Totalisation Agreement'. Without an agreement, then no, a person 'may' not qualify.

As I said in the thread on Dual Citizenship, that's why it's most important to do some heavy research all aspects of moving abroad, being employed abroad, or renouncing. There is a great deal of information that's not available on the 'general' sites, which is why I keep stressing the 'if you qualify'.

[Alan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theOAP Generalities will never cover all of this () but yes, from personal experience, a non-US citizen who has never lived or worked in the US (and still doesn't) can receive US Social Security. It's the "or your spouse" that's the qualifier. From that situation, they are then qualified for Medicare (if the spouse is qualified). In the case I'm familiar with, it's due to the Totalisation Agreement'. Without an agreement, then no, a person 'may' not qualify. As I said in the thread on Dual Citizenship, that's why it's most important to do some heavy research all aspects of moving abroad, being employed abroad, or renouncing. There is a great deal of information that's not available on the 'general' sites, which is why I keep stressing the 'if you qualify'.

I already agree with the SS aspect, my doubt is Medicare.

Fee_at_45 is talking about himself (no US spouse mentioned) being a non-citizen, non-resident living abroad, having access to Medicare when he visits the USA. Do Totalization agreements cover receiving Medicare when you visit the USA? - you may be correct.

As I said, above, lots of research needed before renouncing citizenship to save on taxes.

[theOAP]

Sorry Alan, I was responding to the generality that Medicare is not available if you are not a US citizen or resident in the US.

Free_at_49 will have to take the advice we've both given, which is to do the reasearch as it applies to the EU country they are considering. If it were me, I would be investigating eligibility for US SS given their proposed situation, and follow on with the Medicare aspect. If they meet the contributory qualifications for Medicare (if not age) before they renounce, then I would certainly be questioning the Social Security Administration as to qualifying for it from that particular EU country. There are different (and unique) Totalisation agreements for each of the EU countries that have an agreement with the US.

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theOAP Generalities will never cover all of this () but yes, from personal experience, a non-US citizen who has never lived or worked in the US (and still doesn't) can receive US Social Security. It's the "or your spouse" that's the qualifier. From that situation, they are then qualified for Medicare (if the spouse is qualified). In the case I'm familiar with, it's due to the Totalisation Agreement'. Without an agreement, then no, a person 'may' not qualify. As I said in the thread on Dual Citizenship, that's why it's most important to do some heavy research all aspects of moving abroad, being employed abroad, or renouncing. There is a great deal of information that's not available on the 'general' sites, which is why I keep stressing the 'if you qualify'.

I can't find the link but I recall reading that surviving spouses must have lived in the US for 5 years to be eligible for survivors benefits.

[theOAP]

Ahhh....now we're getting to the real depths of the rules and regulations.

If I remember correctly (and my memory is always subject to a government health warning), much depends on whether or not the 'US Person' side of the marriage was already receiving the US SS benefit. Certainly according to the Federal Benefits Unit at the local US Embassy, if the 'US Person' side is already receiving SS benefits, then the surviving NRA spouse will recieve a US SS benefit regardless, and the survivours benefits will be the original pre-WEP figure, not the reduced figure the US spouse was receiving at time of death (if they had been WEPed). My NRA spouse knows this, and I live in fear. As it pertains to Medicare, I have no idea.

[theOAP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB I can't find the link but I recall reading that surviving spouses must have lived in the US for 5 years to be eligible for survivors benefits.

Just to follow up on your comment, I've been searching through the SSA site for clarification.

Social Security Publications

In the above link, in the drop down, "Additional residency requirements for dependents and survivors", you will find this sentence:
"If you are not a U.S. citizen, you must have lived in the United States for at least five years."

In the last paragraph in this section, you will find the following:
"The residency requirement will not apply to you if you meet any of the following conditions:
(Four are listed, with the last two being)
You are a citizen of one of the countries in Country List 1; or
You are a resident of one of the countries with which the United States has a social security agreement in Country List 3."

What is most interesting is the shift from 'citizen' in List 1 to 'resident' in the List 3. As you know, they are not the same.

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theOAP Just to follow up on your comment, I've been searching through the SSA site for clarification. Social Security Publications In the above link, in the drop down, "Additional residency requirements for dependents and survivors", you will find this sentence: "If you are not a U.S. citizen, you must have lived in the United States for at least five years." In the last paragraph in this section, you will find the following: "The residency requirement will not apply to you if you meet any of the following conditions: (Four are listed, with the last two being) You are a citizen of one of the countries in Country List 1; or You are a resident of one of the countries with which the United States has a social security agreement in Country List 3." What is most interesting is the shift from 'citizen' in List 1 to 'resident' in the List 3. As you know, they are not the same.

That's the link. Thanks, I bookmarked it for future reference.

So, getting back to the OP, a US citizen eligible for SS renounces their citizenship and relocates abroad can still expect to receive SS as long as they become citizens or residents of and reside in one of the countries listed in the SS pub. Their dependents and survivors are subject to more strict requirements.

[theOAP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelB ....a US citizen eligible for SS renounces their citizenship and relocates abroad can still expect to receive SS as long as they become citizens or residents of and reside in one of the countries listed in the SS pub.

Almost there, but not the full brass ring (we're splitting hairs here ). If the person who renounces qualifies for US SS (under the normal 40 quarters/10 substantial years rule), there is no restriction on their new location (except for where the payments are sent in some instances). If it's by a Totalisation agreement, they must live in one of the 24 co-signing countries. It's the dependents and survivors of that person who must be citizens or residents in one of the countries in the above lists if they wish to benefit in any way from US SS, and have not lived in the US for 5 years.

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theOAP Almost there, but not the full brass ring (we're splitting hairs here ). If the person who renounces qualifies for US SS (under the normal 40 quarters/10 substantial years rule), there is no restriction on their new location (except for where the payments are sent in some instances). If it's by a Totalisation agreement, they must live in one of the 24 co-signing countries. It's the dependents and survivors of that person who must be citizens or residents in one of the countries in the above lists if they wish to benefit in any way from US SS, and have not lived in the US for 5 years.

Not splitting hairs at all - an important distinction.