Retiring to an Economically Depressed Area

[W2R]

Ah, I can see you've been to East Nowhere, NY.
I've lived in this area since 1980, and there is still that "You didn't go to high school here did you?" undercurrent. I mostly ignore it.
The majority of my closest friends are transplants also. It's just the way it is in really small towns.

I know what you mean by the "Where did you go to high school?" situations. It has been that way everywhere I have ever lived, small town or large, though it may be easier to detect in small towns. I have lived in 7 different states (8 if you consider northern and southern California as two different states, which IMO they should be) and in no one state for much longer than others. I think it was worst in Hawaii, though I graduated from high school there so I can "fake it" if I want to.

By moving to follow educational and employment opportunities, transplants sometimes have more exciting lives and better incomes. These choices can be at the expense of being considered an outsider or even a rolling stone by those who are not transplants.

YouTube - Like A Rolling Stone-bob dylan

Here in Louisiana, most of my friends are native to this area and not transplants (though most of my co-workers were transplants). They say that native New Orleanians are an unusually insular bunch and only friendly on the surface to transplants but that has not been my experience.

 

[haha]

Remember Snuffy's hatred of " Flatland Furriners" from Lil Abner? Not very far off the truth, if it is off at all, in many places where most of the people are natives. Whether the natives be subsistance level or wealthy, they don't really see much to be gained from associating with the non-natives.

In much of the rural SE, it might be said about someone that "they are from off".

Well, if I am in a place like this, I want to be off at my first chance. Even when I and my family had at least 5-8 generations and some considerable political power, I hated it. It is interesting though to go back and realize that for many of them, I am not long gone and long forgotten, but I am Lucy's boy, or JE's boy. They also remember quite well all of my unfortunate scrapes and falls from grace.

Ha

 

[Bestwifeever]

Remember Snuffy's hatred of " Flatland Furriners" from Lil Abner? Not very far off the truth, if it is off at all, in many places where most of the people are natives. Whether the natives be subsistance level or wealthy, they don't really see much to be gained from associating with the non-natives.

In much of the rural SE, it might be said about someone that "they are from off".

Well, if I am in a place like this, I want to be off at my first chance. Even when I and my family had at least 5-8 generations and some considerable political power, I hated it. It is intersting though to go back and realize that for many of them, I am not long gone and long forgotten, but I am Lucy's boy, or JE's boy. They also remember quite well all of my unfortunate scrapes and falls from grace.

Ha

And almost worse than being the "newcomer" is when you're the native and the other natives remember bigger-than-life tales of Lucy's fall from grace and JE's scrapes--it's like original sin without Adam and Eve, at least in the family and town DH grew up in.

 

[jIMOh]

I think it depends. Some areas decline to a certain extent and then stabilize. So many areas of upstate NY (Albany, Buffalo, Rochester) saw manufacturing and ag (especially dairy) slide a long way and never really recovered, but they stabilized and are reasonable places to live: decent access to healthcare, more or less stable populations, not major crime problems, etc. Other places get hit and keep spiralling downward. Detroit would be a poster-child for this sort of thing, but there are maky others. Population shrinks as people move out, services decline as the tax base erodes, the population grows older and poorer as those with youth or valuable skills depart, crime rises. This sort of place I would not want to live.

So decline is OK as long as it does not happen too far or too fast. I also would want to be careful about how much of my net worth I sank into a house in a real estate market like this.

I agree with this. I am very familiar with Buffalo... grew up in Rochester, all of my family resides in Buffalo. If the bubble never reached the area, its tough for it to burst.

One thing which keeps Buffalo economy going is tourism, and another is that portions of it are a college town. Those are things to consider.

 

[Milton]

YouTube - Buffalo is third poorest city in nation
This video is dated (it suggests that the city's poverty rate is 26.9%; it's currently up to 30.3%), but otherwise provides a pretty good overview: YouTube - Poverty in Buffalo.

 

[freebird5825]

And then there is this small matter of lake effect snow and wind in Buffalo...ask any NFL athlete that has played there about the 13th man at Rich Stadium.
Hint: The 12th man is the crowd.

 

[WhoDaresWins]

Ah, I can see you've been to East Nowhere, NY.
I've lived in this area since 1980, and there is still that "You didn't go to high school here did you?" undercurrent. I mostly ignore it.
The majority of my closest friends are transplants also. It's just the way it is in really small towns.

Quite true here in western PA, too, in the small dead or dying towns. My current group of close friends all grew up elsewhere. I live in a small city that is not so insular, and we have a goodly number of transplants. If one lived even closer to Pittsburgh in some of the neighborhoods favored by the corporate types, academics, and the like, it would be much easier to be a newbie.

 

[jIMOh]

I would not let Buffalo being economically depressed be a reason OP does or does not move to wherever she wanted in Washington state.

Of all the cities I have ever lived in, Buffalo is the one which has the most character, and its not even close. Anyone which lives in that area, or grew up in that area identifies with that area.

Most other small towns do not have a New York City sucking their tax dollars (pretty much all of NYS is taxed so heavily in part because of NYC and the infrastructure such a big city needs). I don't hear about small counties in Ohio complaining that Cincinnati is sucking their tax dollars away from local needs. I know that is true in Buffalo, Rochester and most parts of NYS.

 

[Nords]

Quite true here in western PA, too, in the small dead or dying towns. My current group of close friends all grew up elsewhere. I live in a small city that is not so insular, and we have a goodly number of transplants. If one lived even closer to Pittsburgh in some of the neighborhoods favored by the corporate types, academics, and the like, it would be much easier to be a newbie.

Over half my high-school crowd (Murrysville '78) is still living within an hour's drive.

Back then the college choices were either Penn State... or the state pen.

 

[WhoDaresWins]

Over half my high-school crowd (Murrysville '78) is still living within an hour's drive.

Back then the college choices were either Penn State... or the state pen.

Murrysville, eh? I used to live there myself up until 7 years ago!
Franklin Regional is an excellent school district.

 

[brewer12345]

And then there is this small matter of lake effect snow and wind in Buffalo...ask any NFL athlete that has played there about the 13th man at Rich Stadium.
Hint: The 12th man is the crowd.

Pretty much the same deal in Cleveland. I have spent enough years in that purgatory climate to know it was enough, so when it comes time to relocate it will not be to that part of the country.

I think the insularity of small towns argues strongly for a college town as a relocation destination. If it does not get loved to death in the interim, I think I have one that would suit me (Fort Collins), but will be looking for others over time.

 

[Moemg]

Gainesville is a nice college town . It has more a New England feel than a Florida feel and it has lots of activities in a mild climate .

 

[brewer12345]

Gainesville is a nice college town . It has more a New England feel than a Florida feel and it has lots of activities in a mild climate .

<shudder> Florida. Really not for me in so many ways. But I do need to scout out more college towns.

 

[flyfishnevada]

Ah, I can see you've been to East Nowhere, NY.
I've lived in this area since 1980, and there is still that "You didn't go to high school here did you?" undercurrent. I mostly ignore it.
The majority of my closest friends are transplants also. It's just the way it is in really small towns.

Dead on! Same here. There's the cowboy clique, the we went to high school here clique and the stay at home because my husband has a great job mom clique. We have tons of transplants here and they really drove up the housing market. Not people like me so much bu the rich retirees from California who sold their small homes for a million bucks and came here and bought mini ranches for cash.

We've found that if you aren't pretentious and are friendly most will accept you. It helps that i grew up in Nevada. Being a native, and more importantly not from California, is important to them. Accepted, doesn't mean embraced though. Were still kind of that nice couple that moved here 8 years ago.

The real problem isn't the cliques, even big cities have them, it the lack of opportunities. In a bigger city you're likely to find someone that shares your hobbies, values, idea of fun, etc. In a small town, the supply of likely candidates is much smaller. If it is a rural area, like where we live, you also don't have 40 neighbors close by. We have 8 houses on our three mile long street. The odds are pretty stacked against us.

 

[kyounge1956]

I think the question you have to answer is whether or not you'll enjoy small-town living, a duel-edged sword with all its opportunities yet its inevitable in-your-business curiosity of your new neighbors. (snip)

That is just what I don't know, never having lived in a small town in my life except while I was in college, and college towns are probably atypical anyway. I have been thinking recently about taking a sabbatical right before I retire, to have time to clean up my house to put on the market, look around for a place in the new location etc etc. Looks like I better think real seriously about doing that and actually move there and try it on for size. I'd have to get a job down there, which I haven't been planning on. If worse comes to worse and I liked living in a small town even less than working, I could go back to my j*b. The thing is, none of the reasons I want to move there have anything to do with the "small-towniness" of the place. It's the climate and the housing prices and being able to pursue my hobby without being in violation of the zoning code.

TromboneAl recommended a book a few years back called "Small Town Bound: Your Guide to Small-Town Living, from Determining If Life in the Slower Lane Is for You, to Choosing the Perfect Place to Set Roots" by John Clayton.

Amazon has it in two different editions—the 1996 is under $5 used, the 2001 is over $30 used. I wonder why the price difference? The local library doesn't have that book, but did have another one on the topic. So far I am flunking their "you'd like living in a small town" quiz. The problem is, I don't have a "plan B". There's no way I can afford to stay in Seattle after retirement, because my house isn't paid for yet. I don't think I could swing it even if I sold the house and became a permanent renter (not that I would consider that anyway). Now I'm getting all bummed out.

 

[kyounge1956]

.... and more importantly not from California......

Oh, then they will hate me anyway. I grew up in the SF Bay Area. Probably the only thing worse than being from California is being from New York City. Oh wait, I am from New York City.

 

[kyounge1956]

THE most important thing for you to find out is if there is a hospital with a catheterization lab/cath lab nearby that could get to you quickly. (snip)

Why THE most important thing? I agree this would be important if I were at high risk of heart attack, but AFAIK I'm not (although I admit it would be prudent to get checked by a doctor before I count on that too much). My cholesterol has always been normal, I'm not overweight, don't smoke or overindulge in alcohol, and my BP is typically in the "good thing I'm not any taller" range. I do have near relatives, including one parent, with heart problems, but have never had any indication I am affected myself (unlike some of my siblings who seem to have taken after that side of the family and have high cholesterol and/or BP).

 

[happy2bretired]

<shudder> Florida. Really not for me in so many ways. But I do need to scout out more college towns.

Lincoln Nebraska? I'm afraid, very afraid to see what you will say.

 

[Moemg]

<shudder> Florida. Really not for me in so many ways. But I do need to scout out more college towns.

I'm not crazy about Florida either and I live here . I do like the weather and the beaches . If I was looking for a new place to live I'd probably look for a smaller beach town .

 

[jIMOh]

<shudder> Florida. Really not for me in so many ways. But I do need to scout out more college towns.

Oxford OH
home of Miami University (the red hawks, not the hurricanes)

About 50 minutes from Cincinnati
probably about 20 minutes from Indiana line (never went further than Oxford on the road, but I know Indiana is just around the corner).

Houghton, MI- home of Michigan Tech
Ann Arbor also strikes me as a college town, but I lived there when I was just out of college, so that might distort my view somewhat...

 

[brewer12345]

Upper midwest has too lousy a climate for me to voluntarily live there. Thinking CO, possibly NM, prob not UT, maybe AZ, WA, OR, etc.

 

[freebird5825]

Oh, then they will hate me anyway. I grew up in the SF Bay Area. Probably the only thing worse than being from California is being from New York City. Oh wait, I am from New York City.

I'm a NYC wanna-be , grew up 35 miles north near the Bear Mt bridge on the Hudson River. Both parents were from Westchester.
Upstate NY folks really have an atitude against "downstaters" because of the unequal way the state taxpayers' money is apportioned. I can't say I blame the local folks for feeling that way, but it was not my personal vote.
Small towns tend to be like that, when folks haven't been or lived anywhere outside a 50 mile radius. I definitely am very different. I've given up trying to blend in.
Mission Impossible...

 

[haha]

Upper midwest has too lousy a climate for me to voluntarily live there. Thinking CO, possibly NM, prob not UT, maybe AZ, WA, OR, etc.

WA has some very good possibilities. Bellingham (Western WA U)- maybe a little large for a college town, but definitely a college city and a very nice one. From my POV its only drawback is pretty stormy weather compared to Seattle. Another is Cheney, just west of Spokane. (Eatern WA U.) Walla Walla, down on the Oregon border is a twofer, a nice college and a maximum security state pen! Very good weather, very good recreation summer and winter. Ellensburg (Central WA U) is nice, just across Snoqualmie pass from Seattle but perhaps a bit small. I used to take my kids there for violin contests, and I always enjoyed the town greatly to visit. Good nearby outdoor recreation. Even Spokane has several colleges. While it is is not dominated by colleges, it has several, Gonzaga the basketball power, and Whitman and maybe others. Washington State U is in the SE corner of the state, in Pullman. Good weather but this is really a small place dominated by the school. Only other thing around to my eye at least is wheat fields. U. of Idaho is only 20 or so miles to the east as I remember, in Moscow. The eastern part of WA is much more like the Mountain West socially and politically than it is like Puget Sound.

In Washington once you leave Seattle prices drop a lot, though not to Midwest levels. A couple I know with scant retirement income and little savings just bought a nice house in the NW part of Spokane. IMO Spokane is a great place, nice warm summers, and sometimes cold and snowy winters. Airport with overall good connection. Big enough for quality big city hospitals and doctors. Great nearby outdoor recreation- ski-ing, X-country, hunting and fishing, etc.

Ha

 

[Bestwifeever]

America's Best Affordable Places to Retire - US News and World Report

 

[powerplay]

Spending some time in Aberdeen-Hoquiam would be the best way to determine if you want to live there.
It is a 3 hour drive to Portland and I suspect a little less to Seattle.
I'm fairly familiar with the area since I have family there and visit regularly as well as spending some time at a friends beach house in a small town at the coast there.
Small town is all relative, Aberdeen is big compared to the small town I lived in as a child and small compared to Seattle or Portland. There is a hospital there, but I have no idea of the capabilities available.
The Walmart store seems to be the business that never lacks for customers in the area.
It is definitely economically depressed. The mill closing several years ago had a big impact on the area. There was a plan to sell and restart the mill a year or so ago that never worked out.
Good luck with your relocation plans and interest in pursuing a lower cost of living!