Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-09-2014, 11:48 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,472
Also, no POA applies once a person is deceased, but there should be an Executor or Executrix.

Does the trust state who is the successor trustee and give directions what to do after both original trustees passed? Or does it just list all three of you as successor trustees? For example, my parents trust listed the successor trustees in order: surviving spouse, then me, then my sister. It also gave instructions to dissolve the trust. The trust had it's own tax ID number and a 1041 was filed each year.

The executor is determined by the will. Did your mom have any assets outside the trust--actually, she did, the IRA. The estate is required to file an estate tax return, and will need its own EIN.

As co-successor trustee, you have a right to a copy of the tax returns and information about the accounts. It sounds like you need a lawyer's advice here, not just an accountant.

I agree with one of the above posts, that the three siblings need to meet, preferably with the accountant, and/or maybe an estate lawyer. No spouses should be there at all. They are not trustees. If DB refuses, get a lawyer.

Other resources that might be helpful:

Nolo press gives good information about trust and estate laws in each state. It will help you figure out how off base DB might be. I needed a local lawyer and a lawyer in CA for my dad's estate. I contacted the bar association and also searched online and ended up with a terrific lawyer in CA.
__________________

__________________
EastWest Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-09-2014, 11:54 AM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by RE2Boys View Post
Did you mean doing a 1041 Fiduciary Tax Return?

I was able to do my sister's trust tax return using Intuit Online Tax software, I think it cost about $40 last year. Trust terminates in 2015 so only two more returns.
Yes, I meant 1041. A mind fart on my part. Ours is so simple (5 pages - 1041, Sch D and one K-1 and I don't think I'll have Sch D this year) that it probably isn't even worth spending $40 but that is a good thing to know in case I have a year that it is more complicated.
__________________

__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2014, 02:05 PM   #23
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 233
Thank you for all your posts. I have reread my mother's trust and I don't see anything about how the three of us should do decide anything. I guess it will be majority rule. I will just have to take my chances with DS. Hopefully, she will remember DB has not be above board all these years and all the hurt from the last three years caused his crazy family. She says she agrees with me about having him produce the documents and dissolve the trust, but who knows what she will actually say when we meet with the accountant this Friday.

DM's will is a hand written notarized piece of paper saying we get it everything. That's all it says.

DB has gotten the new tax number already. I guess he plans to do her tax return and the trust's tax return this year.

I now need to organize all my thoughts drifting around my head and put them on paper. I have an MBA as well as MS in Food Science but all this hurts my head.
__________________
Corporate ORphan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2014, 05:36 PM   #24
Full time employment: Posting here.
hesperus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: colorado
Posts: 522
Reading this thread brought back memories of many bad experiences between my sister and I when our last parent died, who left us several trusts, a will, and a mish mash of roles (trustees, co trustees, co executors). There were some early problems with her, as in her self dealing some significant assets, trying to hide it, but getting caught through my accounting reviews. It created a toxic environment from that point on. It was a tough wake up call when I realized that when it comes to money, some people lose any integrity and are willing to destroy relationships in the pursuit of it. It was one of the most stressful times of my life, dealing with a 'family' member who was dishonest. Ultimately my goal was to as quickly and efficiently as possible distribute all assets between us and clear my life of this sibling. We did that, and I have not yet looked back.
__________________
hesperus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2014, 01:45 PM   #25
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 233
The meeting with the accountant is Friday and DB sends email today that all three of us need to go next week to PNC bank to close out an IRA (worth $250), a checking account and cd that are in the trust. Seems they are in a hurry for us to do it. Of course, DS sister sends an email saying when she is available and would he like her to make the appointment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DH and I just talked to her this morning about what we need from the accountant and she STILL is bending over backwards to help DB. DS has ADD and is the middle child so she is "over eager" to please him.

Can the two of them close the account(s) at PNC without me? I was planning on ignoring the emails and just talk about it on Friday.
__________________
Corporate ORphan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2014, 02:16 PM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,427
It depends on how the accounts are titled, what the trust document says and if PNC is awake, but they probably can. I would think that in most cases 2 of 3 co-trustees would be sufficient to act (I know it would be for our trust).

Now while they can probably close the account they still would have a fiduciary duty to distribute any proceeds consistent with the trust provisions, but as to what they would actually do, who knows.

But it sounds like the meeting with the accountant is in a couple days and before you go to the bank next week so can't you all discuss it when you meet with the accountant?
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2014, 07:20 PM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MooreBonds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporate ORphan View Post
The meeting with the accountant is Friday and DB sends email today that all three of us need to go next week to PNC bank to close out an IRA (worth $250), a checking account and cd that are in the trust. Seems they are in a hurry for us to do it. Of course, DS sister sends an email saying when she is available and would he like her to make the appointment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Call him on it! Ask him why it has to happen so quickly. Demand a summary of all assets in the estate. Also, is it just $250? Seems a little fishy to have an IRA with such a low balance, given RMDs. If your DB was in charge of her investments, why did he leave such a small IRA balance? Were there withdrawals of just $15 a year? You can look at your mother's tax return from last year to see what her IRA withdrawals were, since the 1040 has a dedicated line for retirement account withdrawals. If she had IRA withdrawals in the thousands in 2013, then something doesn't quite sound right....give you even more reason to demand a copy of checking account statements for the entire year.

If your DB balks and says "why do you want them, don't you trust me?" simply say "Why are you resisting to give them to me, have something to hide? I have every right to them as a co-executor".
__________________
Dryer sheets Schmyer sheets
MooreBonds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2014, 10:34 PM   #28
Recycles dryer sheets
robertf57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooreBonds View Post
Call him on it! Ask him why it has to happen so quickly. Demand a summary of all assets in the estate. Also, is it just $250? Seems a little fishy to have an IRA with such a low balance, given RMDs. If your DB was in charge of her investments, why did he leave such a small IRA balance? Were there withdrawals of just $15 a year? You can look at your mother's tax return from last year to see what her IRA withdrawals were, since the 1040 has a dedicated line for retirement account withdrawals. If she had IRA withdrawals in the thousands in 2013, then something doesn't quite sound right....give you even more reason to demand a copy of checking account statements for the entire year.

If your DB balks and says "why do you want them, don't you trust me?" simply say "Why are you resisting to give them to me, have something to hide? I have every right to them as a co-executor".
+1 May need to work on the DS a bit. Don't let her drink the Kool-aid
__________________
robertf57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2014, 10:07 AM   #29
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 233
Called DS. She is now on board with me and sent an email to DB that we should wait until after talking with the accountant. She was confused and thought it had to do with the RMD from the inherited IRA. DB never replied. His wife probably won't let him (she admitted she reads his email.)

I am not looking forward to tomorrow.
__________________
Corporate ORphan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2014, 09:04 AM   #30
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 233
Friday wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I didn't think the tax accountant was that great but DB and DS co-operated. DB had a spreadsheet of her assets with him and gave us copies. He also promised three years of tax returns.

Turns out mom has some I-Bonds that DB doesn't know if they are in the name of the trust or in her name. He is going to check. Any one know if you can change an I-Bond to be in one of our names? The interest rates are better than anything we can get now. They don't mature until 2035.

Also, US Bank can't find the paperwork with the beneficiary listing on her IRA there and neither can DB (though Mom kept everything.) It's an old IRA so the original bank is like three banks ago. Any ideas on how to find it?

Thanks again!
__________________
Corporate ORphan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2014, 09:41 AM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
I'm not really sure the revocable trusts are the way to go if your estate is below the inheritance tax limits. Retirement assets can be easily and quickly transferred on your death by filling out the beneficiary information on the accounts and a well written will with a single executor takes care of the balance of the estate. Having co-executors and trustees seems to just complicate matters. Probate might take some time and costs, but it makes sure the estate is wound up correctly.
__________________
“So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”

Current AA: 65% Equity Funds / 20% Bonds / 7% Stable Value /3% Cash / 5% TIAA Traditional
Retired Mar 2014 at age 52, target WR: 0.0%,
Income from pension and rent
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2014, 09:48 AM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 16,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporate ORphan View Post
.....Turns out mom has some I-Bonds that DB doesn't know if they are in the name of the trust or in her name. He is going to check. Any one know if you can change an I-Bond to be in one of our names? The interest rates are better than anything we can get now. They don't mature until 2035....
I researched with with my great-aunt's savings bonds. I could not do it in my case, but I think it is probably possible in your case. Worth checking into anyway.

Here is a place to start. https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv...eedeath.htm#no
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2014, 10:43 AM   #33
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 233
Anyone know if we do cash in the I Bonds, how are the taxes on the interest dealt with? The accountant told us the cost basis on the stocks and mutual funds is based on the time of her death and we had 9 months to cash everything out. WE didn't discuss the I Bonds. Are they dealt with the same way or do we owe taxes on our share if they are in the trust?

He did say anything the trust would owe taxes on, we would so I guess that means we would owe taxes on the interest paid on the I Bonds if we cash them out?
__________________
Corporate ORphan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2014, 12:59 PM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporate ORphan View Post
Anyone know if we do cash in the I Bonds, how are the taxes on the interest dealt with? The accountant told us the cost basis on the stocks and mutual funds is based on the time of her death and we had 9 months to cash everything out. WE didn't discuss the I Bonds. Are they dealt with the same way or do we owe taxes on our share if they are in the trust?

He did say anything the trust would owe taxes on, we would so I guess that means we would owe taxes on the interest paid on the I Bonds if we cash them out?
If the I bonds were owned by you mother (not titled to the trust) the executor/personal representative has the option of reporting, on the descedent's final tax return, all interest accrued to the date of death. Whoever then gets the bonds would only report interest earned from that date forward. See IRS Pub 550 for details.

Or the inheritor would pay taxes on the full interest earned on these bonds until redeemed. Depends on who would be in the lower tax bracket.

If your name or your siblings names are on the bonds, I believe you can just keep them until maturity.
__________________

__________________
RE2Boys is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
revocable trust


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Making a will and living revocable trust 2035 Other topics 10 07-30-2012 06:59 PM
Revocable Trust Rob FIRE and Money 2 02-18-2012 10:01 PM
Found this forum via Google search re "revocable trust" bookworm1711 Hi, I am... 10 01-28-2008 09:48 PM
Revocable living trust. Does One Need It? MJ Other topics 13 03-15-2005 07:57 PM
Yet another revocable living trust question. Nords Other topics 14 11-30-2004 02:45 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:49 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.