Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-21-2011, 10:35 PM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
clifp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
That Lennon song was always hard for me to take too, unless I was stoned.

Maybe that's what is missing from my life and giving me such a bad attitude.

Ha
I think you are approaching the age where medical marijuana is pretty easy to obtain.
__________________

__________________
clifp is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-21-2011, 10:36 PM   #42
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 404
The no COLA policy will eventually spread from the states to federal pensions and SS. Recipients and their lobbyist will view this as the least of potential evils, and COLA's will slip away beneath the radar. At some point in the future, the monthly benefit will be worth a cup of coffee. Fortunately, I'll be dead by then.
__________________

__________________
ACC USN-(Ret)
BLS53 is offline  
Old 11-21-2011, 10:59 PM   #43
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Spanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS53 View Post
The no COLA policy will eventually spread from the states to federal pensions and SS. Recipients and their lobbyist will view this as the least of potential evils, and COLA's will slip away beneath the radar. At some point in the future, the monthly benefit will be worth a cup of coffee.
This scenario is more likely for SS recipients than the DB pensioners.
__________________
May we live in peace and harmony and be free from all human sufferings.
Spanky is online now  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:10 AM   #44
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky View Post
This scenario is more likely for SS recipients than the DB pensioners.

I've seen this play out with an aunt of mine. At some point in the past, Illinois state pensions didn't have a COLA. My aunt married an Illinois state architect that was about 20 years her senior. She never worked, and they never had children. He died in the early 1970's, and she lived until 1998. Everyone in the family always thought she received a lavish state pension, and many of the nieces and nephews, sucked up to her in hopes of an inheritance. It turned out she had been living on a fixed $800 a month benefit, subsidized with home equity loans and credit cards. No one had a clue.
__________________
ACC USN-(Ret)
BLS53 is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 07:57 AM   #45
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLS53 View Post
I've seen this play out with an aunt of mine. At some point in the past, Illinois state pensions didn't have a COLA. My aunt married an Illinois state architect that was about 20 years her senior. She never worked, and they never had children. He died in the early 1970's, and she lived until 1998. Everyone in the family always thought she received a lavish state pension, and many of the nieces and nephews, sucked up to her in hopes of an inheritance. It turned out she had been living on a fixed $800 a month benefit, subsidized with home equity loans and credit cards. No one had a clue.
Even with the COLA people think public employees have these lavish pensions. It is just untrue. It is the top level management and administrators that are gaming the system.
__________________
ripper1 is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 08:14 AM   #46
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by clifp View Post
Yes I agree it is hardship, but compared to the fairly typical family which had a budget assuming $X made a commitment to a big ticket item house, college, car etc. and then suffered a pay freeze, his was bonus eliminated, plus they increase his medical premium. His wife meanwhile had her hours cut in half. I suggest that having only a 2% COLA increase vs 3.6% as what happen to Mulligan is significantly less painful. In economy were real incomes have fallen the only group that has more income now than back in 2007 is those over 65. Asking senior/retirees to accept a smaller COLA increase, seems more fair than asking the taxpayers bear the entire burden of the unfunded pensions.

Now granted over a decade the lower COLA increase will add up, but hopefully the same economic turn around that would help this family get back to even will also allow the pension funds to provide a real COLA increase.
I can live with that.
__________________
ripper1 is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 08:21 AM   #47
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Bimmerbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,631
It will be interesting to see if the COLA freezes and other measures taken to improve the health of the pension plans are reversed when the economy recovers.
__________________
Bimmerbill is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 08:26 AM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 6,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by clifp View Post
Yes I agree it is hardship, but compared to the fairly typical family which had a budget assuming $X made a commitment to a big ticket item house, college, car etc. and then suffered a pay freeze, his was bonus eliminated, plus they increase his medical premium. His wife meanwhile had her hours cut in half.
I guess my problem is where does it stop!!

Today they cut pensions that were promised.

Next? How about this? "joe, you have earned six weeks sick pay which should have covered your sickenss, but times are tough. So we are taking back two weeks. Hope you can return to work in four weeks instead of six. Sorry."

Then: "Jill, you have accumulated four weeks of vacation, but times are tough. We are taking back a week. Enjoy!"

Then: "Bill, we paid you $70,000 last year, but times are tough and we found out that we should not have paid you that much. We want $10,000 back. Or you can find a new job."

Read "Retirement Heist" if you think these things are so crazy they could never happen. Then read "All the Devils are Here."
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 10:15 AM   #49
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I guess my problem is where does it stop!!

Today they cut pensions that were promised.

Next? How about this? "joe, you have earned six weeks sick pay which should have covered your sickenss, but times are tough. So we are taking back two weeks. Hope you can return to work in four weeks instead of six. Sorry."

Then: "Jill, you have accumulated four weeks of vacation, but times are tough. We are taking back a week. Enjoy!"

Then: "Bill, we paid you $70,000 last year, but times are tough and we found out that we should not have paid you that much. We want $10,000 back. Or you can find a new job."

Read "Retirement Heist" if you think these things are so crazy they could never happen. Then read "All the Devils are Here."
They can keep the poor down with welfare but now you start taking away from the middle class. Sounds like revolution.
__________________
ripper1 is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 11:35 AM   #50
Full time employment: Posting here.
arebelspy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripper1
Sounds like revolution.
Are we just gonna fill this thread with Beatles songs? The 1% will have to flee and live in their yellow submarines!
__________________
arebelspy is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:03 PM   #51
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by arebelspy View Post
Are we just gonna fill this thread with Beatles songs? The 1% will have to flee and live in their yellow submarines!
We can work it out as we go down the long and winding road.
__________________
ripper1 is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:44 PM   #52
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripper1 View Post
Even with the COLA people think public employees have these lavish pensions. It is just untrue. It is the top level management and administrators that are gaming the system.
Like you, I'm quite familar with public pensions in Illinois ripper1. But I have to disagree with your statement that only top level management and administrators are gaming the system. For example, in the mid-90's, the Illinois Education Association (state wide teachers' union) negotiated an early-out package that included hefty spiking for everyone that chose to retire early. I can research other examples if you wish. The wildly bold actions of some top level folks in grabbing literal fortunes from the system get lots of media attention these days. But, the way the rules have been laid out in the past, worker bees have been able to take advantage of "grey area" provisions of the pension rules as well.

My condolences if you didn't get a tasty slice of the pie, not everyone did. But there have been many opportunities for the rank and file to chomp down a hefty bite on their way out.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:45 PM   #53
Full time employment: Posting here.
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta suburbs
Posts: 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I guess my problem is where does it stop!!

Today they cut pensions that were promised.

Next? How about this? "joe, you have earned six weeks sick pay which should have covered your sickenss, but times are tough. So we are taking back two weeks. Hope you can return to work in four weeks instead of six. Sorry."

Then: "Jill, you have accumulated four weeks of vacation, but times are tough. We are taking back a week. Enjoy!"

Then: "Bill, we paid you $70,000 last year, but times are tough and we found out that we should not have paid you that much. We want $10,000 back. Or you can find a new job."

Read "Retirement Heist" if you think these things are so crazy they could never happen. Then read "All the Devils are Here."
Two out of three already happened in my mini-megacorp.
Except for California employees (which I think were covered by some local laws), last year we lost some earned vacation time and salaries were reduced for the pay period we already worked.
And yes, if you did not agree to it, you would need to find a new job.
I don't know of a single employee not signing the papers.
Several did left the company, but none directly connected to these two reductions.
__________________
sailor is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:48 PM   #54
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerbill View Post
It will be interesting to see if the COLA freezes and other measures taken to improve the health of the pension plans are reversed when the economy recovers.
Hmmmmm.... I think it will be more interesting to see if the economy recovers. Personally, I'm of the opinion that we're not likely to see middle class standards of living ever return to what they've recently been. The only exception I can think of is if we have some extremely impactful technological breakthroughs in energy and in food production. And, maybe some slowing of population growth.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 05:47 PM   #55
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 868
[QUOTE=youbet;1133204]Like you, I'm quite familar with public pensions in Illinois ripper1. But I have to disagree with your statement that only top level management and administrators are gaming the system. For example, in the mid-90's, the Illinois Education Association (state wide teachers' union) negotiated an early-out package that included hefty spiking for everyone that chose to retire early. I can research other examples if you wish. The wildly bold actions of some top level folks in grabbing literal fortunes from the system get lots of media attention these days. But, the way the rules have been laid out in the past, worker bees have been able to take advantage of "grey area" provisions of the pension rules as well.

My condolences if you didn't get a tasty slice of the pie, not everyone did. But there have been many opportunities for the rank and file to chomp down a hefty bite on their way out.[/QUOTE Please clue me in on the grey areas for the rank file.
__________________
ripper1 is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 08:41 PM   #56
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 154
Quote:
how fair is the current system where I work like mad to provide the building inspector or bus driver with a retirement that I could never hope for?
AMEN!!

I would have been able to retire after 30 yrs. from my company, but wouldn't have insurance, let alone COLA. We didn't even get it when I worked.

My husband is a mechanical eng. and our city bus drivers make more than he does, plus they have better pensions with COLA, better health care. It just doesn't make sense.
__________________
heirloom is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 09:09 PM   #57
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 6,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by heirloom View Post
AMEN!!

I would have been able to retire after 30 yrs. from my company, but wouldn't have insurance, let alone COLA. We didn't even get it when I worked.
What didn't you get when you were working? COLA? Insurance? Both?
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 09:59 PM   #58
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 154
Quote:
What didn't you get when you were working? COLA? Insurance? Both?
COLA

We got it when I first started, but discontinued it about 15 yrs. ago.
__________________
heirloom is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 10:16 PM   #59
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 154
Quote:
Even with the COLA people think public employees have these lavish pensions. It is just untrue. It is the top level management and administrators that are gaming the system.


Well,

Unfortunately, I don't think you know how good some of you have it.
My boss's wife was a teacher and they used her health insurance because it was much better.
Same with a co-worker, his wife is a secretary at a public school and they are using her insurance.

We can't continue to have our taxes raised so we can pay everyones COLA while ours keep dwindling . There has to be a stop somewhere.

Our place had a pay freeze 2 yrs ago like someone else mentioned. But our taxes didn't freeze.
__________________
heirloom is offline  
Old 11-22-2011, 10:27 PM   #60
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 868
It wasn't so long ago the job to get was a private sector job with pensions, ss, and the big perks. Nobody complained about public servants and their dead end jobs. The middle class is too busy bickering while the 1% gets a pass.
__________________

__________________
ripper1 is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
California proposal for pension reform MichaelB FIRE and Money 88 11-05-2011 10:42 PM
More Confusion of the Gov't Pension Offset Provision of the SS Regs Rich FIRE and Money 3 09-30-2011 09:07 PM
Big decision-WHEN to cash in the Pension?? Ken11 FIRE and Money 15 09-28-2011 08:11 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:56 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.