Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-03-2006, 10:14 PM   #41
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,375
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

I believe that the biggest problem in public education by far is US, the parents. Too many parents show little respect for teachers or schools, complain that Lil Nicky is too busy with sports, dog-walking, and church to do homework, and insist that Nicky deserves As and Bs when s/he has earned Cs, Ds, and Fs. Too many parents show no itnerest in their kids' schooling at all--provide no quiet time or place for doing homework (TV and/or music blaring all over the house), don't read themselves and so do not inspire reading in their children, etc. Most American parents would rather see their kid as a varsity sport player than the lead member of the math club.
__________________

__________________
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need.
astromeria is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-03-2006, 10:19 PM   #42
Recycles dryer sheets
fluffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 82
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by astromeria
I believe that the biggest problem in public education by far is US, the parents. Too many parents show little respect for teachers or schools, complain that Lil Nicky is too busy with sports, dog-walking, and church to do homework, and insist that Nicky deserves As and Bs when s/he has earned Cs, Ds, and Fs. Too many parents show no itnerest in their kids' schooling at all--provide no quiet time or place for doing homework (TV and/or music blaring all over the house), don't read themselves and so do not inspire reading in their children, etc. Most American parents would rather see their kid as a varsity sport player than the lead member of the math club.
This is very true as well.
__________________

__________________
We come in the spirit of hostility and menace
fluffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-03-2006, 10:33 PM   #43
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,543
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffy
US is ahead in GDP and other measures despite its public education system, not because of it. US has superior universities and, of course, vastly superior finance/investment laws and infrastructure that encourage the best and brightest to make the most of their talents. Those factors (and I'm sure many others) outweigh the negatives of the public education system.

Math, sciences, and engineering are all about problem-solving -- it is the "soft" disciplines that require straight memorization. These problem-solving disciplines is where US is lagging. At the expense of appearing a self-righteous engineer I would say that analytical thinking and problem solving abilities learned during childhood and teenage years have the most potential to positively impact a person's future career and financial success. They are by no means the only factor -- business sense and drive are extremely important too, as well as positive habits like LBYM -- but they are the most significant of the things that school is supposed to directly teach. And they're the ones most lacking in the current public education system.

Edit: just to clarify, I mean only grades 1-12 when I talk about the US "public education system". US universities, public and private, are very good.
that is not true at all

the so called soft disciplines probably have more problem solving than engineering and math since many times you have to borrow from other disciplines to figure out why something happened in history. engineering sometimes seems more like trial and error for a few years until you finally get something right and solve the problem.
__________________
al_bundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-03-2006, 11:53 PM   #44
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
I also think that our large cities have created a dual education system for K-12.* The affluent pay to send their kids to real schools that educate* while the inner-city public schools become baby-sitting for future fellons.* *
In the biography of the rock group Aerosmith ("Walk This Way"), nearly every member attended a private school.* Some of them even graduated.

They'd all been expelled from the public schools for felonious behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffy
History and English, yes, I would classify those as "soft" disciplines. They certainly do require and develop critical thinking which is very important. I don't think they develop problem-solving abilities the same way as math and "hard" sciences do. Economics is largely applied math so it's not a "soft" discipline to me.
Eh, you're on your own here.* I've known many engineers who'd benefit from the study of history and English.* I'm not sure that I can say the converse, although they were eventually able to produce a diagram of the steam-plant cycle and explain its functioning.

I come from a different engineering sector than most, but I've consistently found that those "softies" are better critical thinkers than the engineers. The #1 graduate in my 100+ nuclear power school class was an economics major. Over half of the top ten were from non-engineering curricula. One of the front runners, an electrical engineering major, was dismissed from the program for appropriating sailing equipment from his alma mater.

The nuke school instructors preferred the officers from the "soft" disciplines because they didn't arrive with any preconceived notions of how the material should be learned. They just learned it the way they were taught.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffy
I'm not sure what you mean when you say teenagers don't have credibility in displaying problem-solving/analytical thinking skills? From my own experience, my problem-solving and critical thinking skills, as applied to "hard" sciences, were fully or at least mostly developed by age 13-14.
Real-time MRI and PET scans have shown that, before the age of 16 in almost all teens and before the age of 20 for many of them, most decision-making activity occurs in the amygdala (considered the brain's emotional component) rather than in "adult" locations.* The answer to the typical teen question "What were you thinking?!?" is "I wasn't."

Some scientists consider that human rational decision-making skills don't really mature until age 25.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffy
I'm a huge sci-fi fan, but unfortunately I don't see the education system you mentioned being successful in real life. Those life skills are very important and its every parent's responsibility to cultivate them in kids, but I just don't see them translating into kids picking up math, sciences, and other disciplines on their own. However, if it really works, then I'm all for it*
It's a component of homeschooling called "unschooling".

Last year Time magazine had a popular article on gender learning differences.* Way too many kids enter school not yet ready to learn, but the system starts them at a chronological age.* The bell curve is very flat with fat tails.* Young boys may not be mentally ready, let alone motivated, to read until they're nine or ten years old.* Yet from an early age they're forced to do something they may not be ready to do.* (Some think that boys don't learn to read until they need the cheat codes for their video games.)* However every kid is ready to learn to play, to talk, to get along, to figure out how to do the "grownup" stuff like traveling or shopping, and to pick up the necessary social skills as they need them.*

By the time they're in the double digits ages the bell curve looks more like statistics classes.* They're all probably ready to learn to read and do math, if they haven't been burned by their "learning experiences" when they were younger.* Homeschoolers have been able to pursue their interests, too, and become much better at self-directed learning than their public-school "peers".

One of the biggest problems of the public education system is that the kids who aren't ready (or able) to learn the subject of the day won't sit there quietly while the other kids learn their stuff.* Teaching becomes more a function of classroom management than of education.
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 01:11 AM   #45
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 86
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by astromeria
I believe that the biggest problem in public education by far is US, the parents. Too many parents show little respect for teachers or schools, complain that Lil Nicky is too busy with sports, dog-walking, and church to do homework, and insist that Nicky deserves As and Bs when s/he has earned Cs, Ds, and Fs. Too many parents show no itnerest in their kids' schooling at all--provide no quiet time or place for doing homework (TV and/or music blaring all over the house), don't read themselves and so do not inspire reading in their children, etc. Most American parents would rather see their kid as a varsity sport player than the lead member of the math club.
Much of what you say has merit.

However, the other side of the coin however is that the public school system shows no respect for the parents.

Parents are given little choice in choosing their child's school, the curriculum or the teacher, and are certainly in no way treated like paying customers.
__________________
I want to spend my last dollar on the very last day of my life.
ash is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 01:13 AM   #46
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 699
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Some scientists consider that human rational decision-making skills don't really mature until age 25.
Mine still haven't.
__________________
bpp is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 02:04 AM   #47
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
In the biography of the rock group Aerosmith ("Walk This Way"), nearly every member attended a private school.* Some of them even graduated.

They'd all been expelled from the public schools for felonious behavior.
Well . . . felons come from all walks of life . . . but not in equal percentages or numbers. You have a habit of citing a single anecdotal piece of information and implying that you have discredited the general observation. It doesn't really work that way.

I admit I am basing my comments on a small data set from public school teachers who I know personally in Pheonix, Chicago and Los Angeles. They all talk about inter-city schools with inadequate supplies and discipline and with serious personal safety issues.

I can tell you from personal experience that classrooms in schools of central Phoenix often have no paper or chalk -- never mind audio visual equipment. Armed officers roam the halls to control the violence. Forget about teaching, the primary goal is to keep the Bloods and Crips from hurting each other.

Ten minutes away, I can find predominately white charter schools with libraries, art supplies, modern audio visual equipment. . . you name it. We recently had over 600 Arizona schools fail to meet federal standards for annual yearly progress on AIMS testing. Guess which ones failed.

Although Arizona is one of those states that manages to rank even lower than Hawaii when it comes to education, I find that my discussions with people who have experience with Los Angeles and Chicago city schools indicate that similar disparities exist there too.
__________________
sgeeeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 02:13 AM   #48
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
One of the biggest problems of the public education system is that the kids who aren't ready (or able) to learn the subject of the day won't sit there quietly while the other kids learn their stuff.* Teaching becomes more a function of classroom management than of education.
Yeah, why is this? * It's obvious that not all kids learn at the same rate, have the same passions, etc. * So, why do public schools want to move everybody through the system at the same rate and teach them the same depth of material?

FWIW, we recently signed our kid up for Suzuki piano lessons. * Suzuki was apparently similar to Montessori in many respects. * Really smart guy who was fascinated with how kids learned. * Anyway, it seems that our schools could learn a bunch from both Suzuki and Montessori:

* Start kids young. * At age 3, all kids are sponges, and most of them have the tools they need to begin a structured education at that age. * If you believe that the "sponge" ages are from 0-6, it makes no sense to start teaching kids at age 5.

* Give them a structured environment in which they can learn by exploring (e.g., Montessori environments include "self-correcting" educational toys).

* Mix ages and abilities in the classroom so that the more advanced kids serve as role models, mentors, etc.

* Let the kid progress at their own pace and go as deeply or as broadly as they like.

* Before you teach them "stuff," teach them the tools of learning: divide and conquer, experimentation, collaboration, etc

Of course, even after you fix the schools, we'll always have huge wealth disparity in a dog-eat-dog capitalistic society, so tax the rich and spread the wealth!
__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 07:34 AM   #49
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,798
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

My son has been in three different state schools since he started.* the best one so far, where he learned the most was in south Carolina.* At the time it was ranked 49 out of 50.* These last two schools seem more intent on covering as much material as possible during the school year, and less interested in making sure the students know the material.* He's already being taught math I remember doing two years later than him.* I think if the schools are going to demand much more knowledge from their students they would probably receive better results by shortening the school day a bit, but extending the school year a couple weeks.* The students wouldn't be as taxed, but they would still be receiving the same amount of instruction time during the school year.* He does have homework every night that should take him about 1/2 hour to do, but by the time he is home he's tired and is not really interested in working (that kind of sounds familiar) and it takes him about 1.5 hours to complete.*

His last school saw recess as a waste of time and did not let the students out to release any energy during the day and they were not allowed to spank the students.* Then they wondered why the students were restless.* Their answer was to hound the parents into putting their kids on drugs.* Drugs that studies have shown seem to result in higher suicide rates for the kids as teenagers.* His new school has 1/2 hour of recess and allows spanking.* It's amazing, my little hellian has been much better mannered in this school than his last.* I can't say whether it is the fact he knows he can be spanked, or that he has time to burn off the extra energy.

As far as military health care goes, the only people who seem to like it are those who have not used it.* It is the worst care I have ever used!* They definitely treat the symptoms and not the underlying issue.

For those who say let's tax the rich. I say if you feel your not paying enough in taxes donate to your government. I'm sure they won't return your donation. Or here's an idea take all of your savings out of the tax protected accounts and hold everything in fully taxed accounts. I have worked with and been in close contact with the poor. I can just about guarantee everyone on this board is considered rich when looking at the people I have worked with. The government can't manage the money they have what makes you think they could do better with more money. They'll just find a way to spend more, putting us in the same situation we are currently in.
__________________
You don't want to work. You want to live like a king, but the big bad world don't owe you a thing. Get over it--The Eagles
lets-retire is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 07:41 AM   #50
Recycles dryer sheets
Arc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 370
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Long term answer I believe is education. Reading, Writing and Arithmetic should be changed to "Reading, Writing, Arithmetic and Personal Finance." If schools would begin teaching personal finance in grade school and continue through high school, young folks would have the basic information (it's not rocket science!) needed to live a balanced life while at the same time preparing for a comfortable retirement - and it shouldn't matter what kind of money they make. The education should focus on instilling in kids that there life will be better if they accept personal responsibility for their financial future and eliminate the reliance on govt or employer.

I won't hold my breath.
__________________
Arc is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 08:09 AM   #51
Recycles dryer sheets
dusk_to_dawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 163
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
Long term answer I believe is education. Reading, Writing and Arithmetic should be changed to "Reading, Writing, Arithmetic and Personal Finance."
You got that right. If kids understood personal finance and did a cost benefit analysis of going to college, they might even find a reason to study and do well in high school.

Funny story, a guy a work with frequently talks about how his fellow americans don't know anything about personal finance. He implies that he has his financial house in order. This guy makes pretty good money and so does his wife. When he got his Aug. 31 paycheck, it was about $800 short because of an error in payroll. He was fuming and running around the office saying that he was going to have to get an $800 loan to carry him over til the next pay period.
__________________
The way I see it, you got two choices. You either gotta get busy livin'...or get busy dyin'.
dusk_to_dawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 08:10 AM   #52
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
C'mon, Martha, you've used better logic & debate tactics than that. We can always point out the failures of a system, but that doesn't prove that the tyranny of the majority is worse than the alternatives.

I don't think the majority of Americans are able to affect "right" or "fair" as much as a core of entrepreneurs are interested in fixing the system while coincidentally making buckets of money doing so. I think good ol' fashioned greed would have produced a better medical system by now, whether it's motivated by money or political power-- same thing.

The fact that 45 million are without insurance indicates that the core of entrepreneurs were not able to fix the system and make buckets of money. The individual market for health insurance shows that insurance companies want to insure young healthy people and will not insure, unless made to, people with chronic conditions that require medical care. The market has failed so government must step in. The market has no conscience. It won't care if high cost people are shut out.

Of course there are issues with government run healthcare. The VA, in contrast to the military, seems to be doing much better than it did in the past in provideding care. It also has better outcomes than private medicine because it is interested in its patients for the long term so it has an emphasis on prevention and evidence based medicine. But it is politically vulnerable. However, there also are issues with insurance companies controlling health care. The medical profession is overwhelmed with paperwork. The goal of insurance companies is to pay as little as possible and to make money for shareholders.

I am willing to go several different routes: A federal healthcare system where government runs it all, much like Canada. A system like medicare where the government acts like a big insurance company but doesn't employ the doctors or own the hospitals and clinics. Or, a system of subsidized insurance so that everyone can have health insurance at an affordable cost.

__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 08:13 AM   #53
Moderator Emeritus
Martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: minnesota
Posts: 13,212
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords

The best educational system I read about was in a science-fiction book. No one attempted to teach calculus or algebra or even reading & writing. Up until age 14 students were taught the "life skills" of running a household, commuting to a job or navigating their way through a city, conversing respectfully & politely with others, evaluating political rhetoric, and dining in public with "proper manners". Oddly enough, by their early teen years they'd displayed enough motivation to learn how to read and write through the skills they were learning-- street signs and grocery-store math. At the age of 14 they tracked onto their chosen fields-- minimal proficiency in reading/writing/math and a life of manual/technical labor, or "higher education" for a university curriculum.

I'll vote for this system.
__________________
.


No more lawyer stuff, no more political stuff, so no more CYA

Martha is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 09:34 AM   #54
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Bay
Posts: 1,026
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
I believe that the biggest problem in public education by far is US, the parents. Too many parents show little respect for teachers or schools, complain that Lil Nicky is too busy with sports, dog-walking, and church to do homework, and insist that Nicky deserves As and Bs when s/he has earned Cs, Ds, and Fs. Too many parents show no itnerest in their kids' schooling at all--provide no quiet time or place for doing homework (TV and/or music blaring all over the house), don't read themselves and so do not inspire reading in their children, etc. Most American parents would rather see their kid as a varsity sport player than the lead member of the math club.
Motivation to learn comes from self, family, and peers. Peers' motivation comes from their family and friends, and so on. If the majority of families in a school spend their evenings watching reality TV and playing video games, not demonstrating the value of learning by working together on reading and schoolwork, the school will spiral down into the depths of mediocrity and below. But if a school engages enough families to participate, then the school will spiral upwards. A school doesn't need a big library, lots of computers, and a new gymnasium to succeed. It needs families who participate in the education of their children.

My kids have been to low-ranked public schools, modestly priced private schools, and exclusive private schools. In my opinion there are two key differences between these schools: private schools typically don't accept and attempt to educate disruptive or special needs students, and families who are paying for their kids' educations typically also pay more attention to their kids' homework. I'm not sure we can do much about the first of these, because the public schools are charged with educating everyone. But we the public can definitely become involved with our kids' educations. The quality of the teachers didn't vary much among the schools, and the physical environment of the schools, which varied a lot, was largely irrelevant.
__________________
scrinch is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 09:42 AM   #55
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Well . . . felons come from all walks of life . . . but not in equal percentages or numbers.* You have a habit of citing a single anecdotal piece of information and implying that you have discredited the general observation.* It doesn't really work that way.
Good point, but my intention in pointing out exceptions to the general rule is to get them downgraded from "always" to "usually" or even "mostly". *I think that pointing out an exception really does discredit the glittering generality general observation.

My career was spent dealing with the exceptions, not so much the rules. *Following the rules without being ready for the exceptions could get people hurt. *So I tend to focus on the exceptions.

For example people see private schools as a solution to the great unwashed public systems. *Yet there are students in private schools who are there because not even the public system wants to touch them. *In fact Hawaii's private schools, in aggregate, spend less money per student and have less-qualified teachers than public schools. *Admittedly a private school's teacher can "fire" a student more easily, but private schools aren't the panacaea they're publicized as. *That's all I'm trying to say. *

I'm no fan of the public-school bureaucracy either. *Whenever we've made a gift to a school we'd get a "thank-you" form letter. *When we gift an envelope of $20s to individual teachers we get personal "Wow, thank you, that's great, here's what we're doing with the money, thanks again" raves. *Some of these teachers are still talking about it three or four years later.

Which brings me to my final point. *I think the biggest impact on the public school system is... involved parents. *That's especially true in Hawaii, where public schools are part of the state govt (teachers are state employees) and get the same per-capita funding per student. *There aren't any locality taxes to pump up one public school district at the expense of another. *Parents are the key, even if it's just as simple as making sure that the kids get to school rested & on time, show some respect for the teachers, and finish their homework. *
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 10:00 AM   #56
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
The best educational system I read about was in a science-fiction book. No one attempted to teach calculus or algebra or even reading & writing. Up until age 14 students were taught the "life skills" of running a household, commuting to a job or navigating their way through a city, conversing respectfully & politely with others, evaluating political rhetoric, and dining in public with "proper manners".
Maybe I haven't had enough coffee this morning, or I'm reading this all wrong, but aren't those all skills that a good parent teaches? Also to include, how to defend oneself, how to manage personal finances, how to respect the rights of others and stand up for your own, how to think critically, etc., etc.
__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 10:05 AM   #57
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,616
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas
Maybe I haven't had enough coffee this morning, or I'm reading this all wrong, but aren't those all skills that a good parent teaches?
Geez, next you'll be expecting parents to teach their kids how to manage their finances.

Sounds like the end of civilization to me.* If parental responsibility broke out everywhere, what would we need taxpayer-funded government bureaucracies for?
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 10:07 AM   #58
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Geez, next you'll be expecting parents to teach their kids how to manage their finances.

Sounds like the end of civilization to me. If parental responsibility broke out everywhere, what would we need taxpayer-funded government bureaucracies for?
I was modifying while you were posting.
__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 10:08 AM   #59
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,487
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
what would we need taxpayer-funded government bureaucracies for?
they'd think of something, besides, somebody has to spend the money
__________________
d is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer
Old 09-04-2006, 10:22 AM   #60
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 38
Re: Rich get richer / poor get poorer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha

There is no safety net for her but family.
Martha:

I'm sorry to hear about your neice. *It is tragic. *I am sure there are lots of situations that have happened like that.

I do have a rather philosophical question. *What is wrong with the answer that "there is no saftey net for her but family"?

To me that is the issue. *Family, community, and personal compassion is the answer...not the federal government. *

Over the years we have created an entitlement mentality where everyone expects someone else, particularly the federal government to take care of them, to provide their education, to give them jobs, to give them a retirement, to give them healthcare. *Politicians gain power by promising that they'll take it from this group and give it to that group.

There is no compassion and no dignity when a government institution gives handouts. *There is compassion and dignity when family and community step in and help.

When America was being built, family would help family or neighbor would help neighbor get off to a good start or rebuild their homes when tragedy struck. *Today we say we don't need to help, we paid taxes to the government and we expect the government to help you. *

Along with that, consumerism has destroyed us as we have grown to want more and more and fill the endless void with things instead of helping those around us.

In general, all the incredible advances in life have not helped societies as much as they should because of the general lack of character in our own hearts.

I am being a little over simplistic in my explanation, but the attitude of it's the government institutions responsibility is pervasive. *That removes responsibility both for ourselves and for others. *We have given over our rights and responsibilities to the government.




__________________

__________________
ktupper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Getting Rich: The Poor Man's Guide" frayne Young Dreamers 8 05-23-2006 02:08 PM
And The Rich Keep Getting Richer? REWahoo FIRE and Money 3 08-15-2005 09:07 AM
BECOME RICH AND STAY RICH idevision Young Dreamers 12 07-27-2005 04:41 PM
Getting rich in real estate farmerEd Other topics 12 07-08-2005 06:06 AM
Why I'm not richer than the other guy retire@40 Life after FIRE 37 11-12-2004 01:49 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:14 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.