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Old 12-03-2008, 06:50 PM   #101
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Mother always saved wrapping paper and bows, I assumed everybody did.

'Normal' is whatever you grew up doing.
My mother (and now some of her six children) used all of the methods listed in this thread: unused wallpaper, comics, reused wrapping paper. A teenager once received their favorite gift ($$) nailed with numerous nails between two 2 x4 's. They had to get it out without destroying the $.

A few years ago we added a new twist -- fabric gift bags. Buy cheap Christmas fabric and make reusable gift bags. We are all careful to only give them to each other so they will continue to recycle in the family.
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:50 PM   #102
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Well, of course. That's the Judaic/Christian/Islamic way -- "Us and Them"
To the extent that you are correct, it has nothing to do with J/C/I. It as a basic feature of human life, found everywhere where it has been looked for.

Ha
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Old 12-03-2008, 06:52 PM   #103
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About earlier posts on not being cheap with friends, no one can accuse me of that.

My close friends and neighbors know that I am frugal. They have also been to parties that I threw as a generous host. In fact, the ones that did not attend later regretted it, because we had such a good time.

Frugal is the opposite of wasteful. My guests knew that I valued their company to go the extra length. Of course, I do not invite those I do not consider true friends.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:33 PM   #104
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So does one put clothes out on the line after the first snow - or make other arrangements?

heh heh heh -
Heck yeah! I've had my freshly washed clothes 'freeze dried' more than once....'course it wasn't on purpose, somebody forgot to bring 'em in before the temps dropped in the evening! Oops!
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:45 PM   #105
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Heck yeah! I've had my freshly washed clothes 'freeze dried' more than once....'course it wasn't on purpose, somebody forgot to bring 'em in before the temps dropped in the evening! Oops!
When hanging laundry when the temperature is below freezing: stand upwind, and work fast.

It's difficult to manipulate clothespins while wearing gloves.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:17 PM   #106
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I don't think what the OP described is "cheap" at all.

There's a real difference between being "cheap" and being "frugal". I think that being frugal is socially/morally responsible, recycling, driving a car forever, not wasting anything and buying things at the best price. But being frugal can also mean going on a european vacation and staying in an inexpensive B&B or getting a great discount on a tour.

But "cheap" is being miserly when financially you really could afford to be more generous. Cheap is regifting. Cheap is skipping out on the bill when you could pay your share. Cheap is trying to get something for nothing, gaming the system, whatever that may be. Cheap is, I think, being a little disrespectful just for the sake of a few extra coins in your pocket.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:25 PM   #107
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I don't think what the OP described is "cheap" at all.

There's a real difference between being "cheap" and being "frugal". I think that being frugal is socially/morally responsible, recycling, driving a car forever, not wasting anything and buying things at the best price. But being frugal can also mean going on a european vacation and staying in an inexpensive B&B or getting a great discount on a tour.

But "cheap" is being miserly when financially you really could afford to be more generous. Cheap is regifting. Cheap is skipping out on the bill when you could pay your share. Cheap is trying to get something for nothing, gaming the system, whatever that may be. Cheap is, I think, being a little disrespectful just for the sake of a few extra coins in your pocket.
By those definitions, I am certainly not cheap. My frugality does not impinge on anyone else.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:28 PM   #108
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Mother always saved wrapping paper and bows, I assumed everybody did.

'Normal' is whatever you grew up doing.
My mother did that too, and ironed the wrapping paper so that it wouldn't look wrinkled.

She would cut squares of wrapping paper, and fold it in half to make a card to put on the present.

I don't think we ever bought new wrapping paper, bows, or cards.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:35 PM   #109
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To the extent that you are correct, it has nothing to do with J/C/I. It as a basic feature of human life, found everywhere where it has been looked for.
everywhere where? (sorry, couldn't resist. but ya hadta know i was gonna catch that.)

in dzogchen (an esoteric school of buddhism), "original sin" so to speak, or briefly, karma arises out of differentiation of oneness: not only of us & them, not just of me & it, but perhaps even simply self-awareness of consciousness, or simply put of observer and observed.

the more one is generous with their time and efforts and compassion, the less anyone will notice how cheap they really are.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:42 PM   #110
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My mother did that too, and ironed the wrapping paper so that it wouldn't look wrinkled.

She would cut squares of wrapping paper, and fold it in half to make a card to put on the present.

I don't think we ever bought new wrapping paper, bows, or cards.
That dredged up another memory: ironing wrapping paper.

You can also wash and iron paper currency to make it look new to stuff into an envelope.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:56 PM   #111
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everywhere where? (sorry, couldn't resist. but ya hadta know i was gonna catch that.)
Touché, mon ami. But all these years I have practiced forbearance around here; where is your charity when I am grammatically exposed?

Ha
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:56 PM   #112
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everywhere where? (sorry, couldn't resist. but ya hadta know i was gonna catch that.)

...
Beatle's school of language: In this ever changing world in which we live in...
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:20 PM   #113
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What the hell are you blathering about?
I'd be glad to blather in more detail if you might point out any particular concept that I was unclear about haha.
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:39 PM   #114
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Well, of course. That's the Judaic/Christian/Islamic way -- "Us and Them"
My god can beat up your god...

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To the extent that you are correct, it has nothing to do with J/C/I. It as a basic feature of human life, found everywhere where it has been looked for.

Ha
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everywhere where? (sorry, couldn't resist. but ya hadta know i was gonna catch that.)
Beware what you wear everywhere...

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Beatle's school of language: In this ever changing world in which we live in...
Wings...

And the time will come when you see we're all one
And life flows on within you and without you.
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:39 PM   #115
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Wow, lots of Frugalistas on this forum that have really come out of the woodwork to knock down folks who seem to spend more.

I've found that if people are commenting about your frugality, then you are probably flaunting your frugality in their face. And many of the responses in this thread demonstrate this to be true.

So who is frugal, but your family, friends and colleagues don't even know it?
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:50 PM   #116
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Wow, lots of Frugalistas on this forum that have really come out of the woodwork to knock down folks who seem to spend more.

I've found that if people are commenting about your frugality, then you are probably flaunting your frugality in their face. And many of the responses in this thread demonstrate this to be true.

So who is frugal, but your family, friends and colleagues don't even know it?
Flaunting frugality is the wrong approach, but cheapness is usually hard to hide completely.
I usually don't even think about it. I'm subconsciously cheap. It just happens.

The reason for condemning the spendthrifts is that we-the-frugal are going to end up paying their bills. We are already paying for a party we didn't even attend. The ant is now supporting the grasshopper's profligacy.
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Old 12-03-2008, 10:54 PM   #117
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So who is frugal, but your family, friends and colleagues don't even know it?
It's probably the other way-- some of our neighbors seem to think I'm selling blood products & body parts to pay the property taxes, and my FIL thinks I'm going to make his daughter & granddaughter homeless with our high-equity ER portfolio...
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:30 AM   #118
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I can add some more.


The person I mentioned earlier who uses un-used wallpaper as gift wrapping paper would mix pickle juice (juice in a jar of pickles) with olive oil to make home made salad dressing. She always made sure and used the plastic bag the sliced bread came in as a sandwich bag when all bread was gone. She always went to the "almost expired" section of supermarkets first to get stuff half price.

She retired in her early 50's, built a custom home in Hawaii, went on a world cruise, played tons of golf, etc, etc.

She used to always tell me "Spend money on things you need, not things you want." Or something like that.

I used to think she was rather eccentric, but I have changed my mind about her since then.

tmm
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:06 AM   #119
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I have noticed that since I tightened my belt a few years ago, I sometimes get comments from this friend about me being cheap. (snip) But what bothers me is that she says it in such a ridiculing tone. (snip)

Does being frugal somehow offend people?

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(snip)It does bother me that she makes those little irritating (irritating to me) comments to me though. And I really want to know why people pick on frugal people. It must be something about us that pushes their buttons!(snip)

tmm
It sounds like your friend may be suffering from "crab mentality".
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Old 12-04-2008, 04:20 AM   #120
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My only real hobby now is my goats and chickens and my vegetable garden in the summer. But since the animals provide me with milk, eggs, and meat they pay for themselves. Plus I sell the excess eggs. The only thing I wont' give up is traveling...
Catdance, who takes care of the goats 'n' chickens while you are away (serious question)? I would look more into such a hobby, but it's hard enough getting away for more than several hours at a time w/o worrying what to do with just the one dog (I don't like leaving him out in the yard alone for an extended amt. of time and don't want to tie him up).

Maybe the criticisms re. frugality come from the perception that the frugal person is "rubbing in" not just a 'superior' saving style but a deeper moral message of asceticism. Even if that is not the case or the intent. Maybe people can accept those who have taken religious vows of poverty but don't expect to find renunciation of 'worldliness' in the general population; no doubt they're be more comfortable with their own choices if everyone (every "regular" person) is "like them." Perceived party poopers aren't appreciated.
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