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Old 11-22-2015, 05:29 PM   #41
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Just a couple of thoughts....


A lot of these pensions cannot be changed easily.... I remember a few years back there was a constitutional vote in Texas that would not allow gvmt entities to reduce pensions.... and from what I read about the various court cases around the country it seems to be common in many (maybe most) states... so first, you will have to change the constitution of a state that would allow any reduction...


About salaries... I did not read the article, but one of my sisters called me when she read an article that said the avg salary of a deputy Sheriff was $128K... WHAT That means that a pension that can approach $100K is not that hard to get....


But, to the OP first post.... I do not have a pension so I did not factor one in my number.... I did look at 100% SS for me.... but did ignore DW match...
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Old 11-22-2015, 05:31 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by utrecht View Post
Those situations give all the other reasonable public pensions a bad name and its no wonder why California is in such bad shape.
And that as I wrote many posts ago is a biggest thread to some public pensions.

I have no problem that those jobs for most part require High School education only. I understand many of them are brave guys doing tough and dangerous work.

But the greed that some of them should get 130k pension at age 50 and hire their kids into their job.....that greed is a big risk to their Public Pension because it is not financially sustainable.

You can complain about my post... It is just my opinion.

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Old 11-22-2015, 05:36 PM   #43
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No disrespect Rodi, but that sounds like character from one of the Steven Seagal's movies
No disrespect taken - he also is an entrepreneur who appeared on Shark Tank - they said he was the most impressive person they'd seen. He's pretty amazing... The whole family is pretty amazing.
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Old 11-22-2015, 05:40 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
Just a couple of thoughts....


A lot of these pensions cannot be changed easily.... I remember a few years back there was a constitutional vote in Texas that would not allow gvmt entities to reduce pensions.... and from what I read about the various court cases around the country it seems to be common in many (maybe most) states... so first, you will have to change the constitution of a state that would allow any reduction...


About salaries... I did not read the article, but one of my sisters called me when she read an article that said the avg salary of a deputy Sheriff was $128K... WHAT That means that a pension that can approach $100K is not that hard to get....


But, to the OP first post.... I do not have a pension so I did not factor one in my number.... I did look at 100% SS for me.... but did ignore DW match...
Salaries for police officers and deputies vary wildly around the country depending mostly on cost of living, but I can guarantee you that there is no large county in Texas where the avg deputy sheriff makes $128K.
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Old 11-22-2015, 05:50 PM   #45
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Here is the listing for Harris County, TX i.e. Houston.

http://www.hcsojobs.com/Salary.aspx

Looks like a Senior Deputy makes $66,000 a year. There could be overtime and stuff added, but that is a 20 year deputy.
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Old 11-22-2015, 05:58 PM   #46
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Adding to some of the remarks in defense of public/govt employees: the advice to "invest in your retirement plan up to the company match" doesn't mean much to those who don't get any match (I didn't, I can say that for sure).

I never hear anyone referring to "gold-plated", "bloated", "Cadillac" matches, though.
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Old 11-22-2015, 06:24 PM   #47
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The teamsters are not public pension funds but federal law has been changed in order to deal with their shortfalls:

"Cutting retirees’ pensions had been illegal—until late last year when the Multiemployer Pension Reform Act was passed. That allows trustees of severely underfunded multiemployer plans to cut pensioners’ income, ending more than four decades of protection under federal law."

Proposed draconian cuts to Teamsters' pensions draws fire from retirees, who vow action - Article from Logistics Management
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Old 11-22-2015, 07:04 PM   #48
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mass pension

to Nun, the Massachusetts pension is also one of the nations cheapest, only regular income, no sweeteners and poorly indexed for inflation, only 3 % of the first 13000$ so will not keep up with inflation over the years, and is still poorly funded but some make up provisions have been added, no one will get rich off of this.
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Old 11-22-2015, 07:49 PM   #49
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I think public pensions as a whole are too varied to put them all into the same bucket. As has been mentioned in previous posts, some retirees can't collect SS, while salaries in some states are way different than others. In NY, I believe the teacher and police pensions are more generous than in many other states, and the salaries are also pretty high. There is a good website where you can see all public salaries and pensions:

SeeThroughNY :: Home

A guy I went to school with is a detective in Nassau County and his salary last year was over $200k. He has about 25 years on the force and can retire right now at 50 with a pension over $100k.

My wife teaches in NY and like all NY teachers, has a Masters degree and also has over 60+ continuing education credits. She will be able to retire at 55 with about a $90k pension, with 100% survivor benefits, and it is inflation adjusted for the first $18k. She will also be able to collect SS at 62 if she decides to take it early. Unlike many of her co-workers, she works very hard and puts in lots of time when not at school. What I disagree with is that she only had to pay 3% of her salary for the first 10 years to get what amounts to about a $1.5M-2M annuity. The tax payers in NY are basically paying for that difference. Public employees should be paying more into the fund or the property taxes will continue to skyrocket (ours are currently about $15k, with 70% of that paying the school taxes alone). We live in a small 1960s ranch house.

My company was recently acquired and the new company did away with the cash balance pension. They will contribute an extra 2% into the 401k. After over 20 years with the company, I can barely buy a semi-decent car with the pension if I took a lump sum. Go figure.
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Old 11-22-2015, 08:00 PM   #50
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A quick question for those of you who worked in a public pension system that did NOT pay into the Federal Social Security system.

Was or is there any requirement that the dollars not paid into SS (both employee and employer) be put into the pension system so as to make up for missing SS benefits?
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Old 11-22-2015, 08:34 PM   #51
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to Nun, the Massachusetts pension is also one of the nations cheapest, only regular income, no sweeteners and poorly indexed for inflation, only 3 % of the first 13000$ so will not keep up with inflation over the years, and is still poorly funded but some make up provisions have been added, no one will get rich off of this.
The 70% current funding has resulted from a poor record of funding from the state, which is now being corrected. As my pension from MA will only be $20k quite a large fraction of it will be COLA'ed. People with 30 years of service can retire on 80% of salary, but the COLA is only on the first $13k. But if you are a top earner like a senior police executive or a doctor at the medical school it's still a nice amount.
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Old 11-22-2015, 08:36 PM   #52
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A quick question for those of you who worked in a public pension system that did NOT pay into the Federal Social Security system.

Was or is there any requirement that the dollars not paid into SS (both employee and employer) be put into the pension system so as to make up for missing SS benefits?
Not in MA. The state pension contribution is required as a condition of the SS opt out. Highly paid employees get the choice of either the state defined benefit pension or a defined contribution plan. The state does strongly encourage further tax deferred saving via 457 and 403b contributions.
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Old 11-22-2015, 08:49 PM   #53
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Old 11-22-2015, 08:52 PM   #54
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A quick question for those of you who worked in a public pension system that did NOT pay into the Federal Social Security system.

Was or is there any requirement that the dollars not paid into SS (both employee and employer) be put into the pension system so as to make up for missing SS benefits?

Our system requires higher payments from both sides than SS does. 14.5% contribution from employer and employee.


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Old 11-22-2015, 09:10 PM   #55
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I am a retired Firefighter ( college graduate),and not a millionaire. We earned our pensions ( two of my co-workers were burned to death fighting a fire last year).Eta 2020 -you should be more careful with your uninformed comments.
Perhaps you do not understand the 'millionaire' comment. It's not a judgement, just a financial statement.

Most public pensions are COLA'd to some degree. Many here would tell you to not withdraw more than 3.5% from a portfolio if you might need it to last for a long retirement.

That means that a $35,000 pension would require a million dollars to invest. So yes, it is reasonable to describe anyone with a COLA'd pension of $35,000 or more as 'millionaires'.

Or try to buy a COLA'd annuity (hard to find). See what they want for $35,000 COLA'd.

-ERD50
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Old 11-22-2015, 09:42 PM   #56
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A quick question for those of you who worked in a public pension system that did NOT pay into the Federal Social Security system.

Was or is there any requirement that the dollars not paid into SS (both employee and employer) be put into the pension system so as to make up for missing SS benefits?
No for Illinois.
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Old 11-22-2015, 10:09 PM   #57
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Erd50 Perhaps you do not understand that if I die next week, my wife does not get a million dollars. She gets a very small Widows monthly stipend, that is not even close to my monthly pension.Whereas in your analogy the guy taking annually 3.5 % of his million will leave his Widow as a millionaire if he dies next week. We all need to please deal with the facts only.
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Old 11-22-2015, 10:21 PM   #58
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Erd50 Perhaps you do not understand that if I die next week, my wife does not get a million dollars. She gets a very small Widows monthly stipend, that is not even close to my monthly pension.Whereas in your analogy the guy taking annually 3.5 % of his million will leave his Widow as a millionaire if he dies next week. We all need to please deal with the facts only.
Your pension value then is closer to the cost of a single annuity with inflation protection. Look up what it would cost to buy on the private market and that is the value.
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Old 11-22-2015, 10:46 PM   #59
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We do not need to look up the cost of a private annuity. I do not need an annuity . I have a pension. I thought this was an online early retirement community? Why are some people criticizing their fellow members of this community whom chose to reach early retirement by putting their lives on the line,protecting their fellow citizens for 30 years,and retiring with a pension?
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Old 11-22-2015, 10:46 PM   #60
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For a pension with full COLA like SS, you can get an idea and possibly extrapolate the value from this WSJ article:

"A 50-year-old man, for example, might have accrued a Social Security benefit worth $1,750 a month at full retirement age. Assuming annual cost-of-living adjustments of 2% a year and a life expectancy of 90, the present value of his Social Security benefits would be $588,551 if he starts taking them at age 62, and $802,039 if he begins at 70, says William Meyer, founder of Social Security Solutions, a Leawood, Kan., financial-planning firm.

To generate the same amount of income they would be receiving from Social Security taken at age 70, the individual would have to pay $436, 517 today into an immediate annuity, says Mr. Meyer."

Conquering Retirement: How Much Is Social Security Worth? - WSJ
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