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07-18-2017, 10:37 PM
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#21
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Spending the Kids Inheritance and living in Chicago
Posts: 17,093
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So does it matter if you transfer all the contents of the over 5 yr ROTH, to a new brokerage (opening a new ROTH) , which of course closes the original ROTH ?
Meaning does the 5 year clock start over ?
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07-19-2017, 06:53 AM
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#22
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset
So does it matter if you transfer all the contents of the over 5 yr ROTH, to a new brokerage (opening a new ROTH) , which of course closes the original ROTH ?
Meaning does the 5 year clock start over ?
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what do you think? from the table:
OVER AGE 59.5
LESS THAN FIVE YEARS SINCE OPENING FIRST ROTH IRA
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07-19-2017, 07:24 AM
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#23
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Castro Valley
Posts: 788
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My plan was to withdraw $50k in 2020 (the year I'm starting SS) from my IRA. So I thought I would convert $25k in 2018 to a Roth and convert $25k in 2019, then withdraw the $50k from the Roth in 2020 instead of the IRA. This would save me a few bucks in taxes.
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07-19-2017, 08:05 AM
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#24
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkern
My plan was to withdraw $50k in 2020 (the year I'm starting SS) from my IRA. So I thought I would convert $25k in 2018 to a Roth and convert $25k in 2019, then withdraw the $50k from the Roth in 2020 instead of the IRA. This would save me a few bucks in taxes.
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Have you calculated how much you will save? The problem is that when you convert, you will be paying taxes early which reduces your future earnings. It is true that earnings in the Roth aren't taxed (subject to conditions) but the reduced earnings from paying the tax early may compensate w/ the net result being a wash.
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07-19-2017, 09:07 AM
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#25
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,723
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I attempted to put the fairmark information into a more readable form. How did I do?
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07-19-2017, 09:18 AM
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#26
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: North
Posts: 4,043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sengsational
I attempted to put the fairmark information into a more readable form. How did I do?
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Did great, clearly the best tax advantage is to wait until 59.5 to withdraw anything, having established the Roth 5 years prior.
However, since there is the strech-IRA, I personally would touch Roth IRA last if I plan to leave money to heirs, unless you have a lot in Roth and withdrawing just a little might prevent the loss of an ACA subsidy.
Rule 1: never take money from roth
Rule 2: especially before 59.5
Rule 3: and only after 5years of initial Roth funding
Rule 4: unless you have large roth and need aca subsidy advantage, or don't have heirs
__________________
Time > $$$ ~ 100% equities ~ FIRE @2031
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07-19-2017, 09:20 AM
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#27
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sengsational
I attempted to put the fairmark information into a more readable form. How did I do?
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I didn't doublecheck the details but I love it......particular the color coding which shows the same results in the same color. Nice! The color scheme might make it easier to remember the details (if you can remember the color scheme)
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07-19-2017, 10:16 AM
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#28
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgtest
Did great, clearly the best tax advantage is to wait until 59.5 to withdraw anything, having established the Roth 5 years prior.
However, since there is the strech-IRA, I personally would touch Roth IRA last if I plan to leave money to heirs, unless you have a lot in Roth and withdrawing just a little might prevent the loss of an ACA subsidy.
Rule 1: never take money from roth
Rule 2: especially before 59.5
Rule 3: and only after 5years of initial Roth funding
Rule 4: unless you have large roth and need aca subsidy advantage, or don't have heirs
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What about taking from a Roth vs. selling equities with a large gain? If left untouched, those equities would get a step up in basis for your heirs. Not sure how to do the math on that. The stretch Roth would keep the funds in a tax advantaged account for the heir (slowly dwindling down with MRDs starting right away, I believe), but if you sell the equities to save the Roth you have to pay tax on the sale, and therefore have to sell more--leaving less for the heirs.
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07-19-2017, 03:35 PM
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#30
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Castro Valley
Posts: 788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneohe
Have you calculated how much you will save? The problem is that when you convert, you will be paying taxes early which reduces your future earnings. It is true that earnings in the Roth aren't taxed (subject to conditions) but the reduced earnings from paying the tax early may compensate w/ the net result being a wash.
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Yes, it saves me $2500 in taxes. I'm paying the taxes from a cash account that will only earn 1% per year over the next two years.
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07-19-2017, 03:49 PM
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#31
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sengsational
I attempted to put the fairmark information into a more readable form. How did I do?
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You did great.... mods, can we get that chart Sticky-ed?
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
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07-19-2017, 03:53 PM
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#32
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Spending the Kids Inheritance and living in Chicago
Posts: 17,093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneohe
what do you think? from the table:
OVER AGE 59.5
LESS THAN FIVE YEARS SINCE OPENING FIRST ROTH IRA
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So I guess you have to keep a piece of paperwork from the first opened and closed ROTH to proof you had one.
Until the current ROTH is 5 yrs old, then just keep paper from it.
Rinse and Repeat....
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07-19-2017, 04:27 PM
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#33
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset
So I guess you have to keep a piece of paperwork from the first opened and closed ROTH to proof you had one.
Until the current ROTH is 5 yrs old, then just keep paper from it.
Rinse and Repeat....
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Yup, you got it. This is the easy part if you are over 59.5, you only have to worry about the oldest 5 yr Roth. For the young whippersnappers, you have to worry about the contribution, conversions....dates and amounts, whether any amounts were recharacterized, and whether any prior withdrawals were made. You can be very surprised if you didn't keep such info,
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