Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Roth conversions
Old 04-22-2018, 05:29 AM   #1
Moderator Emeritus
Ronstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: A little ways southwest of Chicago
Posts: 10,115
Roth conversions

I went to a retirement seminar and a follow up meeting with an FA with a strong tax background. The message I got was to get all portfolio $ out of our traditional IRAs as soon as possible. And pay the tax on the conversion out of $ in our taxable portfolio.

So I have been running numbers. The new tax law IMO makes Roth conversions more attractive than ever. I can convert roughly $100k per year at around 22% tax which is the same tax rate on my projected year 1 RMD in 2026. Heck I can roll over $35k without leaving the 12% bracket.

Unless I discover reasons to do otherwise, I'd like to minimize the total tax burden through say age 85.

Questions:

1. What pct of conventional IRA do you/will you have converted to Roth by your RMD Year?

2. Will you/ did you continue Roth conversion after your RMD’s start?

3. Do you plan on converting 100% to Roth?

4. How old were you when you started Roth conversions?

5. Do you do Roth conversions every year and once per year? And pay the tax in the quarter that you convert?

6. Is your Roth IRA investment mix the same as in your traditional IRA?

7. To what extent was/is your decision on delaying SS based on your Roth conversion strategy?

8. Do you have reasons to not do Roth conversions?
__________________

__________________
The wilderness is calling and I must go.
Ronstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-22-2018, 05:55 AM   #2
Moderator
braumeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northern Kentucky
Posts: 10,387
Have you considered IRMAA?
__________________

__________________
I thought growing old would take longer.
braumeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 06:01 AM   #3
Full time employment: Posting here.
flintnational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta Suburb
Posts: 803
Interesting thread. Thanks for posting. We have just started making Roth conversions and I need to learn more. Hopefully this thread will help.

1. What pct of conventional IRA do you/will you have converted to Roth by your RMD Year? Not sure. We started at age 55. We are currently limited since we are trying to stay under the ACA cliff. At age 65 we will increase conversions and maximize within lower tax brackets (maybe 22% bracket?) But that is in 8 years. The rates may change.

2. Will you/ did you continue Roth conversion after your RMD’s start? Not there yet. Will wait and see what the rates are at the time.

3. Do you plan on converting 100% to Roth? Only to the degree we can maximize the lower rate brackets.

4. How old were you when you started Roth conversions? 55, first year without earned income that would have kept us in higher tax brackets.

5. Do you do Roth conversions every year and once per year? And pay the tax in the quarter that you convert?Once per year. The DW makes quarterly estimated tax payments.

6. Is your Roth IRA investment mix the same as in your traditional IRA?Our overall mix has not changed. But, the Roth contains the potentially higher return assets EM and small cap.

7. To what extent was/is your decision on delaying SS based on your Roth conversion strategy? Not there yet, 57. We also have future pensions to consider. We will use the same strategy, max Roth at lower tax brackets.

8. Do you have reasons to not do Roth conversions? Our strategy is simple. Maximize conversions at the lower brackets based on current tax law. I ignore talk of higher future taxes. They may or may not materialize and they may or may not include retirees/seniors.
__________________
"Oh, twice as much ain't twice as good
And can't sustain like one half could
It's wanting more that's gonna send me to my knees" - John Mayer
flintnational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 06:20 AM   #4
Moderator Emeritus
Ronstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: A little ways southwest of Chicago
Posts: 10,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by braumeister View Post
Have you considered IRMAA?
No - thanks for bringing it up. I'll definitely keep IRMAA limits in mind.
__________________
The wilderness is calling and I must go.
Ronstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 06:45 AM   #5
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St. Charles
Posts: 731
Our plan is to finish converting DW's IRA over the next 3 years, while staying in the 12% bracket. After that, we will start converting mine. At the same time we plan to start SS at FRA, so to stay in the 12% bracket, my conversions will be fairly limited, with little chance to get more than 10% of it converted before RMD's.

Interesting question on conversions while taking RMD's. Never thought about it before. But since RMD's will certainly push us into a higher bracket, there would seem to be a logic to convert to the top of that bracket, to avoid even higher taxes later.

That all said, I sometimes wonder if all I am doing is pre-paying taxes for our son (and only heir). Of course, it is far more effective for him to inherit Roth money vs. tIRA money (both for taxes and no RMD's).
__________________
If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Never slow down, never grow old!
CardsFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 07:13 AM   #6
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronstar View Post
8. Do you have reasons to not do Roth conversions?
If I'm in a high tax bracket in old age, it will mean that my investments have performed well and I have more money than I need, and I will therefore donate a good chunk of my RMDs and hence avoid paying taxes on them. If I'm in a low tax bracket for whatever reason, or dead, taxes are a non-issue.
Which Roger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 07:24 AM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 18,605
I went to a retirement seminar and a follow up meeting with an FA with a strong tax background. The message I got was to get all portfolio $ out of our traditional IRAs as soon as possible. And pay the tax on the conversion out of $ in our taxable portfolio.

I agree in theory that it is best to get as much as possible into Roth for tax-free growth... as long as the marginal tax rate on the Roth conversions is at or below your ultimate marginal tax rate on RMDs. However, I have difficulty converting at 22% now vs just paying 22% later.

Another factor for us is that our Roth conversions are subject to state income tax now but will not be a few years from now and that makes a big difference.... so for now we convert to the top of the 12% (formerly 15% bracket) but our marginal rate is more like 17% (formerly 19%) once state income taxes are added in.


So I have been running numbers. The new tax law IMO makes Roth conversions more attractive than ever. I can convert roughly $100k per year at around 22% tax which is the same tax rate on my projected year 1 RMD in 2026. Heck I can roll over $35k without leaving the 12% bracket.

Unless I discover reasons to do otherwise, I'd like to minimize the total tax burden through say age 85.

Questions:

1. What pct of conventional IRA do you/will you have converted to Roth by your RMD Year?

Over the past 5 years I have converted an amount equal to ~25% of our retirement date tax-deferred and paid on average about 7.5% federal and 5% state income tax. However, due to good growth, our tax-deferred balances today are about the same as when we retired, but out tax free balances are much higher... 22% today vs 3% when we retired. We'll do another 30% between now and age 70 and pay 12% federal and ~5% state for the next few years, but again due to growth the tax-deferred balance will remain about the same.

2. Will you/ did you continue Roth conversion after your RMD’s start

N/A... we are years away from RMDs

3. Do you plan on converting 100% to Roth?

No... but I may convert to the top of the 22% bracket once we are no longer subject to state income taxes.

4. How old were you when you started Roth conversions? 57

5. Do you do Roth conversions every year and once per year? And pay the tax in the quarter that you convert?

Each December as part of my year end tax planning and rebalancing and I pay the tax as part of my January estimated payment and used the annual installment method to avoid underpayment penalties.

6. Is your Roth IRA investment mix the same as in your traditional IRA?

No. All our bonds are in tax-deferred, along with some equities.... Roths are all domestic equities.

7. To what extent was/is your decision on delaying SS based on your Roth conversion strategy?

It is a significant factor... if we do not delay SS then if significantly impacts our ability to do low-cost Roth conversions.

8. Do you have reasons to not do Roth conversions?
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.

Retired Jan 2012 at age 56...60/35/5 AA
pb4uski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 07:43 AM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 1,294
The Roth conversion subject is a complex one for me. First DGF and I have separate TIRA accounts and also separate tax returns. She is already receiving SS(disability). I am trying to minimize income for ACA purposes. Then comes the delayment of SS decision.
I guess one of my general concerns is not wishing to raise the overall WR% in our beginning years of retirement due to sequence of returns risk (just for the withdrawals relating to the taxes due, not the actual conversion).
I realize I would just be delaying now for much larger WR at RMD time.
__________________
TGIM
Dtail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 07:45 AM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 7,104
I've been converting to the top of the 15% bracket for years, especially after we changed our primary residence to FL (no income tax). Our income has grown significantly over the past few years, leaving me little space to convert in. I hadn't really considered converting up to the top of the 22% bracket. I don't have to deal with ACA limits or anything, so it's definitely worth considering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CardsFan View Post
That all said, I sometimes wonder if all I am doing is pre-paying taxes for our son (and only heir). Of course, it is far more effective for him to inherit Roth money vs. tIRA money (both for taxes and no RMD's).
There are RMDs for a Roth being passed on to non-spousal heirs. They either have to take it all out before the end of the fifth year after inheriting it, or they have to start lifetime RMDs in the first year based on their life expectancy when they inherit (Term Certain Method). The old Ed Slott eternal tax free Roth plan doesn't work anymore.

Having said that, having the money in a Roth is still a really good way to pass on an inheritance. That, combined with concerns that the tax brackets might increase in the future make converting up to the top of the 22% bracket attractive. That would allow me to start DWs SS and not worry about squeezing everything in under the 12% bracket anymore. Now that I probably can't itemize my way down into the bracket as far I probably won't be able to do that anyway.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Anonymous (not Will Rogers or Sam Clemens)
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 07:51 AM   #10
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St. Charles
Posts: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by harley View Post
There are RMDs for a Roth being passed on to non-spousal heirs. They either have to take it all out before the end of the fifth year after inheriting it, or they have to start lifetime RMDs in the first year based on their life expectancy when they inherit (Term Certain Method). The old Ed Slott eternal tax free Roth plan doesn't work anymore.

Having said that, having the money in a Roth is still a really good way to pass on an inheritance.
Thanks for the clarification on the inherited Roth. I should have checked that more closely.
__________________
If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Never slow down, never grow old!
CardsFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 08:16 AM   #11
Full time employment: Posting here.
VanWinkle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Brighton
Posts: 563
Questions:

1. What pct of conventional IRA do you/will you have converted to Roth by your RMD Year?

A- My intent is to convert 50% of TIRA to Roth IRA

2. Will you/ did you continue Roth conversion after your RMD’s start?

A- I am 7 years from RMD's and hope to be done with conversions.

3. Do you plan on converting 100% to Roth?

A- My plan keeps me in the 12% brkt so 50% is the target.

4. How old were you when you started Roth conversions?

A- I did my first conversion in 2017 while in the 0% brkt.

5. Do you do Roth conversions every year and once per year? And pay the tax in the quarter that you convert?

A- My intention is to do the conversion at the end of the year and pay
the taxes from taxable at that time.

6. Is your Roth IRA investment mix the same as in your traditional IRA?

A- At this time the Roth is more aggressive but will reduce risk over time as
conversions are completed.

7. To what extent was/is your decision on delaying SS based on your Roth conversion strategy?

A- SS strategy is still a moving target based on ability to convert in the 12%
brkt.

8. Do you have reasons to not do Roth conversions?

A- I can't think of any reasons not to convert half to a Roth.
__________________
Retired May 13th(Friday) 2016 at age 61.
VanWinkle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 08:19 AM   #12
Dryer sheet wannabe
whaleknives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 17
I plan to convert 100% of my 401(k)/tIRA to Roth by 70; I'm currently in my fourth year. I started converting at 64-1/2 on retirement, while delaying SS to 70. I convert once yearly in January after doing taxes and pay estimated taxes quarterly, so my first payment isn't until April. My Roth and traditional IRA allocations differ, but my total porfolio allocations aren't changed by converting. Converting and delaying SS were a natural fit; the conversions were prompted by projections showing a higher tax bracket from SS and RMD's combined. If regulations don't change and the creeks don't rise, I expect to stop paying income taxes at 70.
__________________

Maritime signal flag W-Whiskey, "I require medical assistance."

Technically not early retirement in 2015 at 64-1/2. 32% of men and 37% of women who claimed Social Security that year were 62. (Annual Statistical Supplement, 2016, Table 6.B5)
whaleknives is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 08:45 AM   #13
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronstar View Post
I can convert roughly $100k per year at around 22% tax which is the same tax rate on my projected year 1 RMD in 2026.
Since you'll pay the same tax amount later as now, why not pay later? I'd convert now only if the tax was expected to be significantly lower than later. Tax rates may go up in 2026, or they may drop more by then.
GrayHare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 09:01 AM   #14
Recycles dryer sheets
Olbidness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: W. Galveston Bay
Posts: 227
I discussed Roth conversions with my CPA and he didn't seem to think they were much value. I've got to admit I lost some faith in him when he expressed that opinion. I don't have a clear idea of what the proper course is but last year I converted 10K and will continue to yearly until I get some clarity. I've read past threads about it and will monitor this one.
__________________
The cure for everything is saltwater. Sweat, tears, or the sea.
Olbidness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 09:21 AM   #15
Administrator
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Eee ba gum
Posts: 22,484
Questions:

1. What pct of conventional IRA do you/will you have converted to Roth by your RMD Year?

100%


2. Will you/ did you continue Roth conversion after your RMD’s start?

No

3. Do you plan on converting 100% to Roth?

Yes

4. How old were you when you started Roth conversions?

The year I retired, 55, I am 63 now so this is my 8th year of conversions

5. Do you do Roth conversions every year and once per year? And pay the tax in the quarter that you convert?

Yes. No fixed time of year. If the market has been going down I may do the conversion at that time. Since my Roth is the same funds as the tIRA the advantage is that a greater % of the tIRA will have been converted

6. Is your Roth IRA investment mix the same as in your traditional IRA?

Yes

7. To what extent was/is your decision on delaying SS based on your Roth conversion strategy?

I am delaying as my SS is about double that of my wife so I am delaying to maximize her benefits after my death.

8. Do you have reasons to not do Roth conversions?

No.
__________________
Retired in Jan, 2010 at 55, moved to England in May 2016
Now it's adventure before dementia
Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 09:28 AM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,181
I am early 50's, retired, with a mix of around 67% taxable, 26% IRA, and 7% Roth. Delaying SS until age 70. I started Roth conversions a few years ago. Since I retired, I have used up the whole 10%/12% brackets with a mix of Roth conversions and capital gains.

I am surprised more people don't use more of the 10% and 12% brackets for capital gains at 0% (my remaining deferred capital gains are probably larger than my entire IRA). It might make more sense in the long run if you are single and don't plan on leaving a large legacy, which is my situation.

My entire traditional IRA is in bonds now that I have whittled it down a bit with conversions, so that should slow down the growth.

So far, I am unwilling to go into the 22% bracket territory on Roth conversions. If I do that, all my qualified dividends that year get taxed at 15% instead of 0%. So if I do do that one year, it makes sense for me to get it over with and go to the top of the 24% bracket.

I would almost certainly never convert the whole IRA to Roth, as it probably wouldn't make sense since the tax rate might be lower for such small distributions after age 70 and an IRA might be usable for tax deductions for medical care (with a big medical bill or assisted living bill one year, take out the funds from the IRA that year since you will have a large deduction).

Additionally, I will consider getting a QLAC (deferred annuity) in my early 70's with 25% of my remaining IRA funds (I want to get a deferred annuity anyway so it makes a lot of sense, something not properly stressed in Kitce's tendentious article on this topic).

So besides maxing out the 10/12% brackets each year with a mix of Roth conversion and capital gains, my plan is to take a very close look in 2024 or so (shortly before rates may go back up), when I have more insight into my future portfolio, and see if it makes sense to do that one time conversion to the top of the 24% bracket.
kramer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 10:36 AM   #17
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Houston
Posts: 646
1. What pct of conventional IRA do you/will you have converted to Roth by your RMD Year? Plan shows~ 35%. Will be more or less depending on tax laws over the years. We convert each year as much as we are willing to pay taxes on within an upper limit that I-ORP calcs suggest would minimize our life time tax burden.

2. Will you/ did you continue Roth conversion after your RMD’s start? Possibly. That's a long way off for us. Probably if we continue at that point, it will be to benefit our children's inheritance by paying the taxes for them while we are still alive.

3. Do you plan on converting 100% to Roth? Most likely not, cost too much in taxes in our situation.

4. How old were you when you started Roth conversions? 55 (retirement), first year without a high earned income.

5. Do you do Roth conversions every year and once per year? And pay the tax in the quarter that you convert? Generally yes, unless income from other sources is too high such that converting would put us in a tax bracket we aren't happy with.

6. Is your Roth IRA investment mix the same as in your traditional IRA? No. We target an overall asset mix and put specific holdings where they make most sense.

7. To what extent was/is your decision on delaying SS based on your Roth conversion strategy? Not there yet but we don't plan on delaying SS based on Roth conversion strategy.

8. Do you have reasons to not do Roth conversions? As long as we are staying within tax brackets we are happy with, see no reason to not do Roth conversions. The 2018 tax brackets allow us to make more aggressive conversions than previously planned.
Whisper66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 10:56 AM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
SecondCor521's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boise
Posts: 2,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronstar View Post
Questions:

1. What pct of conventional IRA do you/will you have converted to Roth by your RMD Year?

2. Will you/ did you continue Roth conversion after your RMD’s start?

3. Do you plan on converting 100% to Roth?

4. How old were you when you started Roth conversions?

5. Do you do Roth conversions every year and once per year? And pay the tax in the quarter that you convert?

6. Is your Roth IRA investment mix the same as in your traditional IRA?

7. To what extent was/is your decision on delaying SS based on your Roth conversion strategy?

8. Do you have reasons to not do Roth conversions?
I'm still mulling over my plan, but at least I have a tentative one in place, so here are my thoughts:

1. I don't look at it this way. I intend to convert as much as I can each year while staying under 24% marginal federal taxes or loss of financial aid or ACA credits. I am aiming to convert enough to where my RMD+taxableSS-stdded would result in a taxable income just under the top of the 22% bracket when I start RMDs. For the next four or five years I will be focusing on the FAFSA cliff; after that I hope to convert larger amounts.

But as an effort to answer your question, if I take the amount I converted last year and multiply it by the number of years between now and RMD age, and divide it by my current IRA balance, I get about 50%.

However, if my traditional IRA grows as much as I project, the resulting balance at RMD age is between 600% and 700% of today's value even after the withdrawals.

(Finally, I might mention that I am using the Roth conversion pipeline, so my cumulative conversions partially determine what my cash flow looks like 5 years in the future, so I monitor that aspect as well and it could influence how much I convert also.)

2. Maybe smaller ones up to the top of the 22% bracket.

3. Nope. Whatever I can do with reasonable taxes being paid.

4. 10/10/16 at age 47. I will do my third conversion this December.

5. I do the conversions once a year in December when I know precisely what my income situation for the year will be. If I owe taxes, I would pay them by the January 15 estimated tax payment date.

6. Almost. I keep my 10% bonds in my traditional IRA. The rest of my traditional and all of my Roth IRA are in the same stock index mutual fund.

7. It was independent and I made my SS decision first, but as someone else noted the decisions play well together. My plan is to take SS at 70 unless there is a significant bear market in my late 60s.

8. The only one I can think of is if the government decides to make Roth's non-tax-free somehow. I assess the likelihood of this action as relatively low, so for planning purposes I ignore it.
__________________
"At times the world can seem an unfriendly and sinister place, but believe us when we say there is much more good in it than bad. All you have to do is look hard enough, and what might seem to be a series of unfortunate events, may in fact be the first steps of a journey." Violet Baudelaire.
SecondCor521 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 11:00 AM   #19
Recycles dryer sheets
Olbidness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: W. Galveston Bay
Posts: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanWinkle View Post
Questions:



5. Do you do Roth conversions every year and once per year? And pay the tax in the quarter that you convert?

A- My intention is to do the conversion at the end of the year and pay
the taxes from taxable at that time.
This timing is to be able to more accurately calculate the amount to convert to the top of the bracket and lessen the chance of going into the next bracket?

Do you pay the tax then or can or can you just pay the tax when you file in April of the following year?
__________________
The cure for everything is saltwater. Sweat, tears, or the sea.
Olbidness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 11:15 AM   #20
Recycles dryer sheets
Olbidness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: W. Galveston Bay
Posts: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondCor521 View Post
I'm still mulling over my plan, but at least I have a tentative one in place, so here are my thoughts:

If I owe taxes, I would pay them by the January 15 estimated tax payment date.
My taxes have always been dead simple so this concerns me, I'd hoped to get some direction from my CPA but I'm afraid that failed. Can you expound on the process flow of this a little more?
__________________

__________________
The cure for everything is saltwater. Sweat, tears, or the sea.
Olbidness is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ruh-roh: Roth IRA conversions-- the IRS way. Nords FIRE and Money 14 06-03-2006 06:36 PM
Roth Conversions for Retirees mickeyd FIRE and Money 5 03-12-2006 09:35 AM
Roth IRA Conversions for Retirees mickeyd FIRE and Money 4 12-17-2005 10:38 AM
Roth Conversions?? stevelb FIRE and Money 18 02-28-2005 04:46 PM
ER Roth conversions unclemick FIRE and Money 8 03-05-2004 10:25 PM


 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:07 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.