Hey, my Mom used to iron those patches on the knees of my jeans when I wore holes in them!
Running out of money vs. Too much money but couldn't enjoy it
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travelover
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I ironed one on yesterday, on my $50 LL Bean fleece jeans.
Andre1969
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I think my grandmother, who just passed away in May at the age of 91, struck a happy medium between too much and not enough.
Granddad had retired in 1971, at the age of 55, and Grandmom was 47 at the time. She was working full time, but it seemed like she still got plenty of time off for them to go on vacations and such. It was never anything ultra-expensive...just camping using either a car and small trailer, or pickup with a slide in camper. She also lived close to home...so close she'd come home for lunch to watch "The Young and the Restless", so in a lot of ways, it might have felt like being semi-retired.
She retired from the federal gov't at the end of 1980, at the age of 56, but went back to work doing medical record stuff on an on-call basis. They let her work as much or as little as she wanted, so I remember them still taking a lot of trips. One of my fondest memories was an 8-week cross-country camping trip they took me on in 1982, when I was 12.
Granddad got diagnosed with lung cancer in late 1989, at the age of 73, and died quickly, gone by April of 1990. He was pretty healthy right up until those last few months, so I figure that Grandmom and Granddad did get about 18-19 years of semi-retirement together.
Grandmom finally quit working when she turned 70 in 1994. Her eyesight got too bad for her to drive (macular degeneration), so when she turned 75 she had to give it up, and that's when she seemed to slip a lot further. Still she did a lot of stuff with family, friends, etc.
In 2010, she got a blood clot, and then went anemic. She was 86 at the time, and that's when she seemed to really go down hill. By this time I was living across the street from her, and my uncle had been living with her since around 1993, so she wasn't totally alone. But 2010 was when she was far gone enough that I had to start making her breakfast and lunch on days that my uncle wasn't around, and he'd handle the other days, as well as dinner.
Last year, when she was about 90 1/2, she got too bad to be on her own, and had to go in the emergency room. At that point, she had amassed about $350,000. Plus, the house was paid off. She was probably bringing in about $40K per year between retirement, SS, and survivors benefits from Granddad.
Initially, we presumed that she would come home, but be wheelchair bound, so we had the bathroom re-done to be handicap accessible, and had a walk-in tub installed. I think that was about $14,000. Alas, she only came home for a few hours, and that was when she had gotten well enough to be moved from a rehabilitation facility to an assisted living place. My Mom and uncle moved her, and they stopped off at the house for lunch.
She made it about 2 months or so in the assisted living place before getting really bad again, and going back into the emergency room. Then moved to a nursing facility where she had 24/7 care, and she was there about 5 months before finally passing away. Between her insurance and Medicare, it picked up the tab from the first time she went in the emergeny room, as well as the rehab place. The assisted living place was only about $2800 per month. The second emergency room visit was covered as well, and then I think Medicare covered the first 30 days of the nursing facility. Then it went to something like $150 per day, with some assistance from Medicare. But that was destined to run out, and then it would be about $10-12,000 per month.
I remember we had to make two of those big $10-12K payments, but we got half of the second one back as she died mid-month.
I think the funeral was around $12,000, and once everything was settled, Grandmom's estate still had about $300,000 left. Plus the house. I guess $300K sounds like a lot, and it was money she could have used to enjoy herself more when she was younger. But, she could have also run up some serious medical bills toward the end of her life as well, so I'm glad that cushion was there. At $10-12K per month, if she had held on it could have depleted those funds in about 2-2.5 years.
Granddad had retired in 1971, at the age of 55, and Grandmom was 47 at the time. She was working full time, but it seemed like she still got plenty of time off for them to go on vacations and such. It was never anything ultra-expensive...just camping using either a car and small trailer, or pickup with a slide in camper. She also lived close to home...so close she'd come home for lunch to watch "The Young and the Restless", so in a lot of ways, it might have felt like being semi-retired.
She retired from the federal gov't at the end of 1980, at the age of 56, but went back to work doing medical record stuff on an on-call basis. They let her work as much or as little as she wanted, so I remember them still taking a lot of trips. One of my fondest memories was an 8-week cross-country camping trip they took me on in 1982, when I was 12.
Granddad got diagnosed with lung cancer in late 1989, at the age of 73, and died quickly, gone by April of 1990. He was pretty healthy right up until those last few months, so I figure that Grandmom and Granddad did get about 18-19 years of semi-retirement together.
Grandmom finally quit working when she turned 70 in 1994. Her eyesight got too bad for her to drive (macular degeneration), so when she turned 75 she had to give it up, and that's when she seemed to slip a lot further. Still she did a lot of stuff with family, friends, etc.
In 2010, she got a blood clot, and then went anemic. She was 86 at the time, and that's when she seemed to really go down hill. By this time I was living across the street from her, and my uncle had been living with her since around 1993, so she wasn't totally alone. But 2010 was when she was far gone enough that I had to start making her breakfast and lunch on days that my uncle wasn't around, and he'd handle the other days, as well as dinner.
Last year, when she was about 90 1/2, she got too bad to be on her own, and had to go in the emergency room. At that point, she had amassed about $350,000. Plus, the house was paid off. She was probably bringing in about $40K per year between retirement, SS, and survivors benefits from Granddad.
Initially, we presumed that she would come home, but be wheelchair bound, so we had the bathroom re-done to be handicap accessible, and had a walk-in tub installed. I think that was about $14,000. Alas, she only came home for a few hours, and that was when she had gotten well enough to be moved from a rehabilitation facility to an assisted living place. My Mom and uncle moved her, and they stopped off at the house for lunch.
She made it about 2 months or so in the assisted living place before getting really bad again, and going back into the emergency room. Then moved to a nursing facility where she had 24/7 care, and she was there about 5 months before finally passing away. Between her insurance and Medicare, it picked up the tab from the first time she went in the emergeny room, as well as the rehab place. The assisted living place was only about $2800 per month. The second emergency room visit was covered as well, and then I think Medicare covered the first 30 days of the nursing facility. Then it went to something like $150 per day, with some assistance from Medicare. But that was destined to run out, and then it would be about $10-12,000 per month.
I remember we had to make two of those big $10-12K payments, but we got half of the second one back as she died mid-month.
I think the funeral was around $12,000, and once everything was settled, Grandmom's estate still had about $300,000 left. Plus the house. I guess $300K sounds like a lot, and it was money she could have used to enjoy herself more when she was younger. But, she could have also run up some serious medical bills toward the end of her life as well, so I'm glad that cushion was there. At $10-12K per month, if she had held on it could have depleted those funds in about 2-2.5 years.
Aunt and uncle of mine...They partied their whole life like there was no tomorrow...Raised four kids, traveled, blah, blah, blah... Middle class family in the 60s/70s. My father (aunt's brother), on the other hand, lived like a miser, never went anywhere and watched TV on the couch for 20 years after retiring. He lived until he was 74 and had no fun to speak of, which he could have afforded, if only a little here and there. While he was still working he constantly bitched about how his sister (my aunt) and her husband were not going to have any money for retirement.
My aunt and uncle both died in their late 50s, within a few years of each other (breast cancer for her, lung cancer for him). They seemed happy and seemed to pass with no regrets. My father, on the other hand, could not point to much happiness.
Which life would you want?
My aunt and uncle both died in their late 50s, within a few years of each other (breast cancer for her, lung cancer for him). They seemed happy and seemed to pass with no regrets. My father, on the other hand, could not point to much happiness.
Which life would you want?
I could do both ... been traveling much 30s to early 50s (now). Will continue to travel to 60, and then 60s to 85 or 90 just watch TV on the couch. I probably don't want to live beyond 90. 
daylatedollarshort
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I think there is some middle ground between the sit at home crowd piling up the money and spending to run out of money at 90 but worrying about living to be 100. We get a lot of free (or very low cost) credit card travel points, restaurant gift cards and event tickets with ideas from the various deal sites. We are not this extreme, but there is a blog where someone accumulated a million miles in travel points in one month. Money is really more of a means to an end but if that end is travel, dining out and attending cultural events there are other ways to do a lot for free or very inexpensively these days.
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Some people are homebodies and are very content to live a simple but fulfilling life. Did you know he was unhappy or are you saying because he did not party and have so called fun that he must have been unhappy? I have know several people like your aunt and uncle who are no longer here simply because they partied too much and died from the effects of imbibing too much. The most recent one I know died of liver cancer.
I like to relax sometimes and have simple fun - folks over to dinner, a good book, playing the piano, the occasional get togethers for dinner and a few trips ever so often. I am very contented with my life but for some on the outside, they may think I am not having enough fun. Sometimes too much fun exhaust me.
brett
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Once we had the financial resources the only determining factor was how many 'good' years we had left. For us, that meant how many years could we reasonably expect good health and have the ability to travel independently and as often as we wanted. Life expectancy was not the goal post for us.
I went at 58. A friend and colleague went until he hit 65. He dropped dead a year later. Never did take his family, grandchildren etc. on that cruise he had been planning. He always wanted to work that extra year or at least until he got a golden handshake.
I went at 58. A friend and colleague went until he hit 65. He dropped dead a year later. Never did take his family, grandchildren etc. on that cruise he had been planning. He always wanted to work that extra year or at least until he got a golden handshake.
I have a friend that retired from a major company at 55 due to outsourcing of his department. He took his pension in a lump sum and then invested it in dot com stocks. After losing a big chunk of his retirement and being a poor money manager, he and his wife are living on Social Security and she is working part time for her play money. They live in a smaller but still comfortable home, have decent vehicles to drive and eat out regularly at inexpensive places. So, despite pooping off their retirement money, they still have a comfortable but modest retirement. Even those that are unwise still seem to get by okay. Since I am more conservative, plan better and have multiple sources of retirement income. Between that and being a regular reader here on the forum, where could I possibly go wrong?
Danmar
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Well, certainly if you have adequate resources and enjoy travel, you should do so early in your retirement. I retired at 56, about nine years ago and travelled extensively right out of the gate, 3-4 big trips a year often paying for friends and family to accompany us. Still do a fair bit of travel but now mostly active, ie biking trips.
I have found that after a while you sort of settle into a certain retirement lifestyle and coast along for a while. If boredom is the worst thing that can happen in retirement (?) I think you need to be flexible and try new things from time to time. This is much more difficult for older people, ie me. For the last few years we have been mostly travelling to/from our own places but I can see this getting a little stale at some point. Maybe, it's time to shake things up a bit while we can? I constantly think and worry about having regrets when checking out. Hopefully not too soon.
As I said before couch potato may be a good investment strategy, but it's a terrible retirement strategy. Keeping a balance between running out of funds and leaving too much ( assuming there are things you would have liked to spend more on) is the biggest issue for me in retirement other than staying fit and healthy. Somehow we need to keep interested in doing new things as we age. A challenge for sure but being passive and just taking life as it comes has never been my style. I am constantly trying to formulate better plans, approaches,etc.
I have found that after a while you sort of settle into a certain retirement lifestyle and coast along for a while. If boredom is the worst thing that can happen in retirement (?) I think you need to be flexible and try new things from time to time. This is much more difficult for older people, ie me. For the last few years we have been mostly travelling to/from our own places but I can see this getting a little stale at some point. Maybe, it's time to shake things up a bit while we can? I constantly think and worry about having regrets when checking out. Hopefully not too soon.
As I said before couch potato may be a good investment strategy, but it's a terrible retirement strategy. Keeping a balance between running out of funds and leaving too much ( assuming there are things you would have liked to spend more on) is the biggest issue for me in retirement other than staying fit and healthy. Somehow we need to keep interested in doing new things as we age. A challenge for sure but being passive and just taking life as it comes has never been my style. I am constantly trying to formulate better plans, approaches,etc.
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NW-Bound
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The only leisure activity I enjoy is travel. Earlier this year, I took the RV for a 2-month trek through the western states. We just did a 1-week in Maui to revisit after 26 years, and will be taking a cruise next week out of Florida. I cannot see doing more travel than this. If we had more money, we would upgrade our flight and accomodations, but I don't know if I can travel more. Oh wait. If I get to fly at least business class, perhaps I would not mind more air travel.
Anyway, if the market tanks, I can be happy just putzing around the home experimenting with making new dishes. And when I am bored with that, I can go up to my high-country place to putz around some more.
Unless one is hungry, cold, or sick, it is an individual's fault to be unhappy. People spend money because they can. They don't really have to. And counting money can bring happiness the same as spending it. In fact, spending money on stuff that you do not really care for can be counterproductive.
Anyway, if the market tanks, I can be happy just putzing around the home experimenting with making new dishes. And when I am bored with that, I can go up to my high-country place to putz around some more.
Unless one is hungry, cold, or sick, it is an individual's fault to be unhappy. People spend money because they can. They don't really have to. And counting money can bring happiness the same as spending it. In fact, spending money on stuff that you do not really care for can be counterproductive.
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kcowan
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Mom was the saver in our family. Dad was the spender. But he would get an allowance from Mom. Their only big investments were a house, a car and a cottage, "first of"s for both their families. They lived a simple life and only travelled on company conventions.
When Mom died of cancer at age 57, he adopted an even simpler life, spending summers at the cottage, and taking public transit every day to experience the city for 3-4 hours. When he died at 95, he had about $200k in cash, having lived largely on his meagre pension.
Even though he had mastered a spreadsheet for vacation planning for his workers, banks and finance made him nervous.
I think the issue is that the vast majority of the population is like him. Not sophisticated at investing, used to living on what he has. While we might rail at the inefficiency of that, it is unlikely to change.
When Mom died of cancer at age 57, he adopted an even simpler life, spending summers at the cottage, and taking public transit every day to experience the city for 3-4 hours. When he died at 95, he had about $200k in cash, having lived largely on his meagre pension.
Even though he had mastered a spreadsheet for vacation planning for his workers, banks and finance made him nervous.
I think the issue is that the vast majority of the population is like him. Not sophisticated at investing, used to living on what he has. While we might rail at the inefficiency of that, it is unlikely to change.
Danmar
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Agree. As I said, people often settle into a "groove" in retirement. Just make sure it isn't a "rut" We should look for new interesting things to do whether it costs money or not. Certainly having a little extra spending capacity opens up the possibilities though.
Also agree that hoarding money provides enjoyment for some people. I have to consciously resist this sometimes even though no one would ever call me frugal or cheap.
haha
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I've been reading this forum for over 10 years, and based on what I have read I would say that a fair number of people do plan their lives to be sure to use up every bit of buying power, or at least they write as if they do.
Ha
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I would think writing as if you plan to is easier than actually having the nerves to willfully plan for it. At least among our select bunch.
I'm certain many in society at large DO accomplish this via a lack of willfull planning.
I'm certain many in society at large DO accomplish this via a lack of willfull planning.
W2R
Moderator Emeritus
OK, I just HAVE to weigh in on this thread. As always, I have many opinions (who me, opinionated? 
yep). Some of these opinions may not be all that popular but here goes:
My views are that someone who has achieved bliss, contentment, nirvana, or whatever you wish to call it, in life, does not have a duty to toss it out the window and engage in hyperconsumerism when they are already content.
If someone is already content, it seems to me that very little enjoyment can be had from just spending more money on things/experiences for the sake of spending it. Sometimes not spending can provide more enjoyment than spending. Sometimes the greatest new experiences are free. Sometimes extra things are just an albatross.
I see zero reason for someone who is content to feel obligated to spend everything they've got, even though they do not find doing this is necessary for further contentment, so as to not have a penny left when they die.
My thinking is that it is not immoral to leave money to one's heirs, or to charity, and at the same time to ensure that one has enough money to live to over 100 years old without depending on someone else's tax dollars.
Now, on the other hand, if someone is truly NOT content, then that's a different matter.
* If you always longed to, say, go on a photographic safari in Africa, and can afford it, then do it while you're young.
* If you always wanted a Dream House and can afford one, then buy one and move (and hurry up with that too - - moving before you're 65, in my experience, was a whole lot less exhausting and stressful than moving after 65).
* If you want to travel by RV before you die, then by all means buy a nice one if you can afford to do so, and take off! Again, this is probably better done while you are young enough to see well and drive safely.
And so on. But if you would rather just stick with the status quo, there's nothing inherently wrong with that either. Just make sure that is really what you want, and that you are truly content.
As always, I have many opinions (who me, opinionated? yep). Some of these opinions may not be all that popular but here goes:My views are that someone who has achieved bliss, contentment, nirvana, or whatever you wish to call it, in life, does not have a duty to toss it out the window and engage in hyperconsumerism when they are already content.
If someone is already content, it seems to me that very little enjoyment can be had from just spending more money on things/experiences for the sake of spending it. Sometimes not spending can provide more enjoyment than spending. Sometimes the greatest new experiences are free. Sometimes extra things are just an albatross.
I see zero reason for someone who is content to feel obligated to spend everything they've got, even though they do not find doing this is necessary for further contentment, so as to not have a penny left when they die.
My thinking is that it is not immoral to leave money to one's heirs, or to charity, and at the same time to ensure that one has enough money to live to over 100 years old without depending on someone else's tax dollars.
Now, on the other hand, if someone is truly NOT content, then that's a different matter.
* If you always longed to, say, go on a photographic safari in Africa, and can afford it, then do it while you're young.
* If you always wanted a Dream House and can afford one, then buy one and move (and hurry up with that too - - moving before you're 65, in my experience, was a whole lot less exhausting and stressful than moving after 65).
* If you want to travel by RV before you die, then by all means buy a nice one if you can afford to do so, and take off! Again, this is probably better done while you are young enough to see well and drive safely.
And so on. But if you would rather just stick with the status quo, there's nothing inherently wrong with that either. Just make sure that is really what you want, and that you are truly content.
Danmar
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
w2r. Can't argue with you on this. If I may summarize: do what makes you happy if you can afford it and don't worry. Don't spend just for the sake of spending because that probably won't make you happy. Miss anything?
W2R
Moderator Emeritus
That about covers it. Nice and concise, too.
I don't see any reason to criticize anybody that dies with a lot of unspent money, as long as they lived a happy and contented life and weren't longing for anything.
Maybe I was talking more to my family and friends, than to the board. Throughout my life, my family has thought I was slightly cuckoo because I didn't want a lot of money and didn't spend much. My friends even said I was ascetic, at one point. But really, the above has been my point of view all along and isn't even contradictory to an ascetic lifestyle (although I don't think that ever was my inclination, and my present life is quite the opposite).
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RetireAge50
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If I live to an old age I plan to spend most of my assets not just to spend money needlessly but because this was the plan from the beginning and allowed for the earliest possible retirement date.
Danmar
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
That about covers it. Nice and concise, too.
I don't see any reason to criticize anybody that dies with a lot of unspent money, as long as they lived a happy and contented life and weren't longing for anything.
.
Agree as long as they understood this could be the outcome and were happy with where the money eventually went. After all you could view the unspent money as a gift which could be viewed as spending in a sense. I fully expect and indeed plan on leaving a sizeable estate.
But if someone leaves a large estate to people they didn't know or like just because they were too lazy to face the issue, or simply liked hoarding money, not so much. I think people with money have some responsibility to ensure it is well spent, eventually. Either by themselves, charities, or heirs.
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tmm99
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Very well said. I totally agree.OK, I just HAVE to weigh in on this thread.
My views are that someone who has achieved bliss, contentment, nirvana, or whatever you wish to call it, in life, does not have a duty to toss it out the window and engage in hyperconsumerism when they are already content.
If someone is already content, it seems to me that very little enjoyment can be had from just spending more money on things/experiences for the sake of spending it. Sometimes not spending can provide more enjoyment than spending. Sometimes the greatest new experiences are free. Sometimes extra things are just an albatross.
I see zero reason for someone who is content to feel obligated to spend everything they've got, even though they do not find doing this is necessary for further contentment, so as to not have a penny left when they die.
My thinking is that it is not immoral to leave money to one's heirs, or to charity, and at the same time to ensure that one has enough money to live to over 100 years old without depending on someone else's tax dollars.
Now, on the other hand, if someone is truly NOT content, then that's a different matter.
* If you always longed to, say, go on a photographic safari in Africa, and can afford it, then do it while you're young.
* If you always wanted a Dream House and can afford one, then buy one and move (and hurry up with that too - - moving before you're 65, in my experience, was a whole lot less exhausting and stressful than moving after 65).
* If you want to travel by RV before you die, then by all means buy a nice one if you can afford to do so, and take off! Again, this is probably better done while you are young enough to see well and drive safely.
And so on. But if you would rather just stick with the status quo, there's nothing inherently wrong with that either. Just make sure that is really what you want, and that you are truly content.
audreyh1
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Spending money takes a certain amount of effort. What if you're lazy...........?
LOL!
LOL!
Agree W2R. See no reason why our kids won't inherent a sizable estate and we're ok with that. It's not the goal, but even with having ramped up the lifestyle as much as we're comfortable, it's pretty inevitable. I'm not going to spend my time seeking things/experiences that aren't meaningful to us. Not denying ourselves the things that are either.
Let's face it, for those for whom a portfolio is the principal retirement resource there is likely a small percentage who go screeching into the grave, party drink in hand, having just spent the last of the money at a clip they had been sustaining for a reasonably long retirement.
That may be the goal but I seriously doubt it happens much! Good luck if that's your goal!
Let's face it, for those for whom a portfolio is the principal retirement resource there is likely a small percentage who go screeching into the grave, party drink in hand, having just spent the last of the money at a clip they had been sustaining for a reasonably long retirement.
That may be the goal but I seriously doubt it happens much! Good luck if that's your goal!My brother is 59 years old. He has lived at home all his life, with my mother -- not to take care of her but because he does not want his own place, plus he is incapable of making decisions or commitments. He pays half the monthly expenses -- which comes to about $350 per month.
He can afford his own place -- he has $640K in investments and cash. He went on disability 6 months ago. He thinks the world and everyone is against him. He has issues -- mental and health. He admits he has issues but can't/won't do anything to improve his quality of life. In my eyes, he definitely fits into the 'existing but not living' category.
He says he has dreams of a better life but bemoans the fact that he has very little money coming in and thinks the world is against him. (Again, he has $640K available to him.)
He spends his days reorganizing his hoard of trash -- plastic bags, pencils, pens, empty storage containers, closets full of clothes that don't fit, etc. He documents everything. He labels everything. -- This is a guy who has a college degree.
There are clearly mental issues that drive his lifestyle.
He can afford his own place -- he has $640K in investments and cash. He went on disability 6 months ago. He thinks the world and everyone is against him. He has issues -- mental and health. He admits he has issues but can't/won't do anything to improve his quality of life. In my eyes, he definitely fits into the 'existing but not living' category.
He says he has dreams of a better life but bemoans the fact that he has very little money coming in and thinks the world is against him. (Again, he has $640K available to him.)
He spends his days reorganizing his hoard of trash -- plastic bags, pencils, pens, empty storage containers, closets full of clothes that don't fit, etc. He documents everything. He labels everything. -- This is a guy who has a college degree.
There are clearly mental issues that drive his lifestyle.
