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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-21-2006, 12:25 PM   #61
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

Eh, the lexus was an indulgence. She's only had one new car her whole life and thats the rav4 I bought her 5 years ago. She's never had a really nice new car. I have. Several times.

Other than that, she's really low maintenance. Not a big clothes horse, doesnt want to be wined and dined or taken on trips around the world. I buy more worthless crap than she does. Ok, she has a heck of a shoe collection but if thats the only spendaholism thats ok.

Bob - I only buy appliances with scratches or dings on the sides where they're not visible. And I just replaced every appliance in the kitchen last year, all from sales and with a year no pay/no interest. Except the fridge. I ordered that delivered from sears because they dent EVERYTHING they deliver. I mean EVERYTHING. The first one came with a dent in the front door that you could fit a football in. Went back. Second one...fingers crossed...little ding and several scratches on the right side in the back where its invisible when set in next to the counter. DING DING DING! Couple of hundred bucks off. Stove was a clearance item for half off, nice ceramic cooktop model. Dishwasher was a closeout on sale for 1/3 off. New TV in the living room was bought from Sams Club, the guy who bought it started putting the stand together and screwed it up and returned it. Never opened the box with the tv in it. I bought it from the floor for 25% off new, put a dowel and some glue in the hole the original buyer screwed up, and it went together perfectly.

I *was* going through a grill every 5 years...here in the southwest you can grill year round. After 5 years I needed a new grill surface, a new burner, probably a spark starter, and the whole thing needed a half a day of scraping and scrubbing. So I freecycled them and bought a new cheap one. Last year i bought a fully 304 stainless steel one that should last a lot longer.

I do the "half of a..." thing because I wanted to do the capital spends in 10 year increments and water heaters/furnaces/fridges dont wear out in ten years. At least I hope not. You go further out than 10 years and you cant really rely on inflation adjusting costs and so forth. Its like trying to predict your spending budget in 2025...at best its going to be a bad guess.

Given a guess at inflation adjustment followed by a 30% "fudge factor" I apply to the whole budget...I think its a decent guess.

Stainless steel dishwashers? Try Sears # 02216193000 for $299 marked down from $419. One of consumer reports top rated dishwashers and pretty similar to the one I put in. Pick it up yourself in store to avoid delivery fees, they dont weigh that much. One water line, one drain line, couple of screws for the power cord, couple of screws holding it in, yank the old one out, stick the new one in, reverse the process to re-hook up. Dont re-use the original drain line, use the new one that comes with the dishwasher. Takes me about 30-40 minutes to put one in.
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-21-2006, 03:25 PM   #62
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

This is a list I compiled from a number of internet sources.* It does not represent me at all, but the numbers all have some basis in one study or another.

CAPTIAL ITEM COST LIFESPAN (YEARS) ANNUALIZED COST
Car................ $24,000 5 $4,800
Water heater $250 13 $19
Furnace.......... $2,000 20 $100
Air conditioner $4,000 15 $267
Housepaint.... $200 20 $10
Refrigerator... $600 17 $35
Freezer.......... $240 20 $12
Dishwasher... $350 10 $35
Range........... $400 12 $33
Microwave..... $175 6 $29
Washer&dryer $750 15 $50
Car tires........ $600 2.5 $240
Computers.... $600 5 $120
Printer........... $130 10 $13
Television...... $300 8 $38
Stereo........... $500 15 $33
Living room set $4,000 15 $267
Bedroom set.. $1,700 15 $113
Dining room set $1,000 10 $100
Patio furniture $400 7 $57
Gas grill.......... $500 7 $71
Exercise machines $425 10 $43
Vacuum Cleaner $115 17 $7
Steam Cleaner $650 10 $65
house maint/reno $7,500 14 $536
TOTAL............. $7,093
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-21-2006, 03:29 PM   #63
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

I want some of that house pain that lasts 20 years.

If fact, I want the franchise.
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-21-2006, 03:31 PM   #64
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

Good numbers. Probably vary somewhat by region and weather. In screaming distance of what I guessed, considering I keep my house maintenance stuff in my expense budget and buy inexpensive furniture.

Supports the thought of adding 5-7k a year to your base everyday 'utilities/food/gas' type expenses to account for capital items.

And yeah, I want the same housepaint. Best I could get out of a very well primed, very well applied expensive and highly regarded paint was about 7 or 8 before it started needing some work. I would bet my wifes old house will break 10 as we bought pre-primed hardiplank, then primed it with a very good expensive primer, then two coats of very good exterior paint. The hardi supposedly holds paint better than other surfaces. I'll drive by it one a year and see when they finally end up painting it.
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-21-2006, 03:34 PM   #65
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

I keep looking at SG's list and keeping doing the math for the age of my house. *Looks like I have some suprises coming up in the next year or so. *

We have not gone to this much trouble to calculate our replacement/maintenance needs. *We have a slush fund to cover these things which is our "emergency fund". *It is sitting in a short term CD and in a MM account so we can get to it with the least pain. *Our next expense is going to be a driveway replacement this year.......if it ever stops snowing. *
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-21-2006, 04:58 PM   #66
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny


Stainless steel dishwashers? Try Sears # 02216193000 for $299 marked down from $419. One of consumer reports top rated dishwashers and pretty similar to the one I put in. Pick it up yourself in store to avoid delivery fees, they dont weigh that much. One water line, one drain line, couple of screws for the power cord, couple of screws holding it in, yank the old one out, stick the new one in, reverse the process to re-hook up. Dont re-use the original drain line, use the new one that comes with the dishwasher. Takes me about 30-40 minutes to put one in.
Dang you're good.
Should have checked the postings before I let my own wife head out to the appliance store this afternoon and fall in love with the Kitchen Aid...

I like your budget approach (and I get the half-a-heater thing). In the book I push people to add 2.5k/car plus $1000 a year for homeowners to their budgets in ER just to sort of proxy what you and SG have done in more detail here.

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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 09:53 AM   #67
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

Read thru about 5 pages last night of the report then put it down - WAY too much work and finagling involved. Do you really think people will follow this strategy ? Or more likely, just pick and choose which "rules" they like to follow. No way I would get involved in trying to follow this complicated method of SWR - seems to me it sets you up for a big fall. [I don't think I'll even bother finishing reading the report - my brain doesn't need this extra "junk" floating around in it!]

Just my 2 cents worth!

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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 10:03 AM   #68
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

Jane Doe and others:

While I haven't really jumped on the 6 percent SWR endorsed by the OP, I do believe that this is close to what most people actually do.

When you have a good year in your portfolio take out a little more. When you have a bad year take out just what you really need.

The original link to the financial planning white paper and gummy's ideas just give some mathematical rigor to what many people actually do with their nestegg.

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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 10:31 AM   #69
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
I want some of that house pain that lasts 20 years.

If fact, I want the franchise.
No you don't, at least not if you have to paint the house for $200 also .
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 02:39 PM   #70
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

I find it interesting to see the number of years for some appliances....

I have had my microwave for 22 years now and it still works great... and being single I use it...

Now, my 20 year old washer and dryer do not get the use that much, but they are a bit 'old' and might need replacing in a few years..

Just replaced a 25 year old dishwasher, but I did have to fix it once about 12 years ago...

My computer is 7 years old, but just blew out it's second power supply... I am trading to get a 500 mhz machine (I get the computer for two free movie tickets!!)

The rest of my stuff is probably going to be replace real soon... all of my stuff is approaching 20 or more years and I am getting to the point that it just to old and worn out...
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 03:01 PM   #71
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
I have had my microwave for 22 years now and it still works great...

My computer is 7 years old, but just blew out it's second power supply...
TP, another less costly approach would be to spring for a new microwave (prices have come down a lot in the last 22 years), then hook the power supply from your old microwave up to your old computer. Might help to fill it with 10W30, too.

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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 03:06 PM   #72
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
TP, another less costly approach would be to spring for a new microwave (prices have come down a lot in the last 22 years), then hook the power supply from your old microwave up to your old computer.* Might help to fill it with 10W30, too.

A good thought... but since I am wrangling to get a free computer that is better than mine... I will go that route.. hey, I am moving into the 21st century with this upgrade.. well, I take that back.. I still will be using Windows 98..
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 04:10 PM   #73
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud

The rest of my stuff is probably going to be replace real soon... all of my stuff is approaching 20 or more years and I am getting to the point that it just to old and worn out...
TP,
You'll probably find that when you do replace with the "new" stuff that it won't last nearly as long. Too many cheap parts.
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 04:26 PM   #74
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

Agreed. Gabe wants to play with my computer keyboard all the time, so I dug a 10 year old one out of the back closet. Must weigh twice what my new one does, and he can throw it around without fear of immediate destruction. So far so good.

I was under the impression that it was a good idea to get rid of the older microwaves because they tended to emit a lot more 'bad stuff' (whatever the hell that might be). Anyone have any good non-anecdotal stuff about that?

Also, newer energy star stuff might use so much less energy that its worth it to replace with new.
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 04:40 PM   #75
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

I just want to be clear about the list of non-annual expense items I posted. This is not my own experience or any other single person's experience. I put the list together a few years ago from several different sources. Clearly, every person will be different for each item. My house is brick. DW and I have had the same furniture for almost 30 years. I buy cheaper cars and keep them longer, etc. But the list seemed like a good starting point for people who want estimate their average non-annual expenses.

The idea is to pick and choose the items that mean something to you and use your own cost/lifetime estimates to produce the number that makes sense to you.
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 05:10 PM   #76
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

I really appreciate the effort you and CFB did to put together this list. It gives me something to think about.
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 05:14 PM   #77
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

Good thing I remembered to take out the line item for sex toys, pudding and orange clogs
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 05:22 PM   #78
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''' Safe fuzzy withdrawal rate.
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 06:10 PM   #79
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo!
TP, another less costly approach would be to spring for a new microwave (prices have come down a lot in the last 22 years), then hook the power supply from your old microwave up to your old computer.* Might help to fill it with 10W30, too.
I'd fill it with butter, because he might be able to figure out a way to make popcorn just by laying the bag on top of the monitor and pushing the "F12" key.* TH's monitor might be a double-bagger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny
Agreed. Gabe wants to play with my computer keyboard all the time, so I dug a 10 year old one out of the back closet.* Must weigh twice what my new one does, and he can throw it around without fear of immediate destruction.* So far so good.
Just wait'll he drops that quality IBM product on his foot.* Or your foot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny
I was under the impression that it was a good idea to get rid of the older microwaves because they tended to emit a lot more 'bad stuff' (whatever the hell that might be). Anyone have any good non-anecdotal stuff about that?
Aaaaw, 2.4 GHz is just radio energy and the resonant frequency for heating anything in your anatomy that's based on an H2O molecule.* That's why the major airlines park the noses of their planes toward the passenger terminals-- it helps save on heating costs.

(For those of you who also read Justin's posts, the last sentence of the previous paragraph was a joke.* The next paragraph is not a joke.)

Submarine corpsmen were required to wave a portable RF detector in front of a microwave oven every month or so and record the results in their maintenance logs.* (Imagine our corpsman's embarrassment when he found out later that the microwave oven was supposed to be operating at the time.)* Even when the measurement was conducted properly he never detected any emissions.* Since the submarine's ESM suite was usually stuffed with cryptographic intercept experts who would immediately freak over 2.4 GHz in their vicinity, the detector was probably working OK.* Today those portable microwave energy detectors are sold at consumer prices.* It might be fun to take one of these to the microwave-oven aisle at an appliance store and start waving it around with a concerned look on your face.

Anyway the older microwaves were very well shielded (and very heavy) because those older magnetrons were made with higher-quality material in order to minimize leakage as well as achieve a higher power density.* Electronic advancements over the last 10 years have resulted in magnetrons that operate at much higher power densities with very cheap parts.* They tend to burn out before they get a chance to leak.* Six-sigma quality control also means that the shielding can be cut way back because those magnetrons weren't leaking when they left the factory!* Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I've noticed that of the half-dozen microwave ovens that have passed through our house in the last two decades, the only survivor is the 20-year old GE.

Seriously, though, unless the microwave's door is being held shut with duct tape, it's probably safe.* Unless of course your kids discover this guy's website.

I wouldn't waste money on an energy-efficient microwave.* It's tweaking from the 96th to the 99th percentile-- they barely use any energy to begin with, and it's far less than a stove burner or an oven.* Most people buy microwaves for their features, and I've been informed that the 20th wedding anniversary is not china or platinum but rather a convection microwave.

TH, how long do you think it'll take people to figure out how to read that post #76 of yours?
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%
Old 03-22-2006, 06:14 PM   #80
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Re: Safe Withdrawl Rate -- 6%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute 'n' Fuzzy Bunny
Good thing I remembered to take out the line item for sex toys, pudding and orange clogs
As long as no horses are involved.
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