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Old 10-30-2012, 07:54 AM   #361
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That's my final "pre-written" post. I may have to start a new thread on a new topic in a few weeks...there is some exciting news coming.
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:43 AM   #362
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That's my final "pre-written" post. I may have to start a new thread on a new topic in a few weeks...there is some exciting news coming.
This was an interesting thread - thanks.

Congratulations in advance.
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:47 AM   #363
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There are highways that descend a few thousand feet non-stop in just a few miles. I have driven on some with 10% and even 16% grade.

I wonder if the EV or hybrid car batteries would have enough capacity to store all that energy that is converted to electric. If and when the battery is full, the mechanical brakes must get activated. ...
I think this came up on Tesla's blog - one of the developer cars was used by a high level employee who lived on the top of a hill. So you charge overnight to 100%, and then go down a hill, and it won't use regen as you'd overcharge the batteries.

Not sure if they did anything about it, I suppose he could set it to charge to 95% or something.

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Brake fluid is hydrophilic, which means it attracts moisture out of the air. Once you open a sealed can, throw away any you donít use within about a week or soÖeven screwing the cap back on the can is insufficient protection. ...
In this day and age, isn't there some alternative brake fluid that would not absorb moisture? Moisture is a real safety issue. It turns to steam when it gets hot, and steam is compressible. Hydraulic brakes count on the non-compressiblity of fluids - so the brakes don't work (or not very well). Plus, the moisture leads to corrosion.

And +1 on thanks for starting this thread, some great points.

-ERD50
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:02 AM   #364
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Not sure if they did anything about it, I suppose he could set it to charge to 95% or something.
When the battery gets full they could shunt the electricity to a BHR. "Big Honking Resistor."

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In this day and age, isn't there some alternative brake fluid that would not absorb moisture?
Yes. Many cars still use DOT3 and DOT4 brake fluids, which are based on glycol and absorb water (which causes the boiling problems and the corrosion problems you noted). DOT 5 type fluids are based on silicone and don't absorb water, so they work at higher temps and they do a better job of protecting against corrosion in the brake system. Don't just switch over if your car's manufacturer doesn't specifically recommend DOT 5: The seals and other rubber components aren't always compatible. Also, if it gets into an engine (e.g. through a leaky brake booster, etc) the DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids burn off harmlessly, the DOT5 burns to a gritty substance that is not good for the internals of an engine.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:11 PM   #365
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Hi you might find this link helpful True Cost to Own (TCO) Calculator on Edmunds.com True cost to own a auto.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:21 PM   #366
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I think this came up on Tesla's blog - one of the developer cars was used by a high level employee who lived on the top of a hill. So you charge overnight to 100%, and then go down a hill, and it won't use regen as you'd overcharge the batteries.

Not sure if they did anything about it, I suppose he could set it to charge to 95% or something.



In this day and age, isn't there some alternative brake fluid that would not absorb moisture? Moisture is a real safety issue. It turns to steam when it gets hot, and steam is compressible. Hydraulic brakes count on the non-compressiblity of fluids - so the brakes don't work (or not very well). Plus, the moisture leads to corrosion.

And +1 on thanks for starting this thread, some great points.

-ERD50
Yes there is, DOT 5 silicone...but it's a whole different animal and I'd suggest 99% of the population stay away from it. I have it in my '69 Camaro.

There are a few cars that receive this from the factory...I think the Corvette is one.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:23 PM   #367
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When the battery gets full they could shunt the electricity to a BHR. "Big Honking Resistor."


Yes. Many cars still use DOT3 and DOT4 brake fluids, which are based on glycol and absorb water (which causes the boiling problems and the corrosion problems you noted). DOT 5 type fluids are based on silicone and don't absorb water, so they work at higher temps and they do a better job of protecting against corrosion in the brake system. Don't just switch over if your car's manufacturer doesn't specifically recommend DOT 5: The seals and other rubber components aren't always compatible. Also, if it gets into an engine (e.g. through a leaky brake booster, etc) the DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids burn off harmlessly, the DOT5 burns to a gritty substance that is not good for the internals of an engine.
+1, didn't see this until after I made my post above.

It took me 2 days to switch over my Camaro to DOT5. Too many things can go wrong if you don't REALLY know what you're doing.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:22 PM   #368
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When the battery gets full they could shunt the electricity to a BHR. "Big Honking Resistor."


Yes. Many cars still use DOT3 and DOT4 brake fluids, which are based on glycol and absorb water (which causes the boiling problems and the corrosion problems you noted). DOT 5 type fluids are based on silicone and don't absorb water, so they work at higher temps and they do a better job of protecting against corrosion in the brake system. Don't just switch over if your car's manufacturer doesn't specifically recommend DOT 5: The seals and other rubber components aren't always compatible. Also, if it gets into an engine (e.g. through a leaky brake booster, etc) the DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids burn off harmlessly, the DOT5 burns to a gritty substance that is not good for the internals of an engine.
Beware, however, DOT 5.1 brake fluid is not silicone, but glycol. It should have been designated 4.1 or something. I don't know if it is widely available, but certainly some people are going to have a bad day with it.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:49 PM   #369
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We go to Florida for three months (January - March) and have only one car. Not too bad, just got to plan the trips. It can be done!
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:09 AM   #370
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There are highways that descend a few thousand feet non-stop in just a few miles. I have driven on some with 10% and even 16% grade.
I wonder if the EV or hybrid car batteries would have enough capacity to store all that energy that is converted to electric. If and when the battery is full, the mechanical brakes must get activated. And as there is no combustion engine in a true EV to provide the drag, the brakes must then absorb a lot more heat. And in a hybrid, the combustion engine may be too small to provide the needed drag.
I am sure car makers have worked this all out, but I am curious about the details.
The Prius battery system has a sophisticated and proprietary charge controller that the enthusiasts are perpetually trying to reverse engineer. (So are the makers of the aftermarket EV conversion kits.) Toyota doesn't share and it's a mystery, but it's based on both voltage and on the number of electrons that have flowed out of the battery during a certain amount of time. (Literally a coulomb counter.) I don't know the details.

But when the charger says the battery's full, the generator dumps its output somewhere else. There's also a special "B" gear for "Braking with the engine" (that I've never used) designed for extended downhill mountain driving.

I'm going to have to look those up on PriusChat and in my owner's manual.

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Windshield washer fluid is light blue translucent
I've stopped using it.

I use distilled water or the water out of our whole-house conditioner, but I don't add anything to it. Of course it never freezes on our part of the island, so I can get away with "just" water.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:27 PM   #371
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When the battery gets full they could shunt the electricity to a BHR. "Big Honking Resistor."
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But when the charger says the battery's full, the generator dumps its output somewhere else. There's also a special "B" gear for "Braking with the engine" (that I've never used) designed for extended downhill mountain driving.
There we go. A simple solution! As the power to be dissipated can be many tens of KWs, I am willing to bet that the "BHR" would need forced-air cooling. I would look for a metal box with a fan at the inlet, and a directed exhaust.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:37 PM   #372
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There we go. A simple solution! As the power to be dissipated can be many tens of KWs, I am willing to bet that the "BHR" would need forced-air cooling. I would look for a metal box with a fan at the inlet, and a directed exhaust.
Which of course is what diesel locomotives do. Look up regenerative braking in the context of diesel locomotives. Some locos have what is called a bonnet where there are large fans that blow air past a set of resistors. Of course if one were to install an overhead wire one could reclaim the energy and pass it to trains going uphill. I don't think up till now the economics have panned out on Cajon Pass or over Techapai pass (Bakersfield to Mohave) or over the Sierra.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:10 AM   #373
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Ethynol is garbage, sorta like using hamburger helper.

I notice the decrease in mileage on my 4 cyl camry. It seems to be about 1 to 1 1/2 miles per gallon less with the ethynol.

To me it's just another scam from the oil companies to increase profits. JMHO

Actually, it's not the oil companies, it's the US gov't. being bought out (ok, lobbied) by the ethanol industry, and leading the charge is ADM (Archer Daniels MIdland). Over 40% of their profits are from federal subsidies, a significant portion of that amount from its ethanol production.

Just last year the Feds allowed up to 15% (was 10%) ethanol allowed in gasoline, for newer models only.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:55 AM   #374
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Light rail vehicles use regenerative braking down to about 5 MPH, then friction brakes are employed for stopping. If the line is receptive, then power is dumped into power lines or third rail depending on configuration.

On Ward Leonard powered AKA Diesel Electric Locomotives, at night the braking resistors really light up, and the cooling fans kick in at a ferocious rate, too keep them from burning up.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:18 AM   #375
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On the Ford Escape hybrid, when the battery is full and more regenerative braking is needed, like on a steep grade, the generator on the wheels powers the electric starter motor on the internal combustion engine and spins it at a maximum safe RPM. Of course, the friction brakes are the ultimate backup. There is no big honking resistor.
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:08 PM   #376
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a train thread, nice. LOL
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