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Old 10-02-2012, 05:50 PM   #101
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Note that for the newer cars you begin to run into a synthetic oil recomendation, in particular for cars with turbochargers (since that gets really hot and the oil has to lube the rotor). Anyway if the car needs synthetic oil then you are looking at $75 oil changes.

I just left Walmart and bought a 5 qt container of 0W20 Synthetic Mobil One for $24.95. The filter for my 4 cyl Camry is about 4 bucks so with tax it's about $30 to change the oil and filter.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:02 PM   #102
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I've always wondered. I usually maintain my tire pressures abou 2 lbs higher than what is recommended on the inside of the drivers door. My hypothesis is that with slight overinflation (~5%) the decrease in rolling resistance/increase in mileage exceeds any possible detriments of overinflated tires. Any thoughts on this?

Also, it seems to reduce the frequency of TPMS alerts that I get.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:02 PM   #103
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Yes, I'm highly suspicious of Honda's recommendation of 0W-20 oil year-round for our new CR-V. I wish there were some hard facts on oil viscosity vs. motor wear in these modern vehicles. I'm just having a hard time believing that oil this thin will provide the required film thickness to reduce metal-to-metal contact and wear when temps are high. .......................

Until the powertrain warranty is up I'll use the oil they recommend, after that I'll go with something a bit heavier, esp in the summer.
Which number worries you, the 0 or the 20?

Up here, we really need the 0W or 5W whatever to start cars at -40 and colder. I doubt it's a big deal where lows are above freezing. In the same vein, our engine (and I assume oil) temps are about the same after 30 minutes regardless of the outside temperature which seldom exceeds 95F.

I suspect newer cars are built with closer bearing tolerances. My 05 Ford calls for 5-20, my 07 Ford calls for 5-30. The engine in the 05 first appeared in 05, the one in the 07 first appeared in ~1990. Different technology, different oil.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:24 PM   #104
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My Honda is a manual trans. I've been very happy with it.
I've done many painful, difficult, and downright impossible things in my life. But nothing compares to the challenge teaching a teenager to drive a stick shift when she really doesn't see the point. Not even if it makes her a guy magnet. I finally gave up when we agreed that she probably had enough skill to drive me to the emergency room if my clutch foot was broken.

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I am not aware of any vehicle with a recommended timing belt replacement interval longer than about 100K miles. If the previous owner took good care of the car, it should have been replaced already. Many engines are of the interference type, and when a belt breaks and causes the pistons to hit and bend the valves and ruin the valve guides, the repair cost may approach the value of the used car.
We're counting on it. She's the fourth or fifth owner and the maintenance records only go back about five years.

This CR-V's manual specified 105K miles, so she'll probably be able to push 200K before facing a "significant engineering risk". I think all internal combustion Hondas are interference engines now.

Right now she's just saving her cash and playing it by ear. When she graduates in 2014 she'll either be driving it to Charleston SC for nuclear power school-- or selling before she flies away to meet her destroyer in Italy/Japan.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:26 PM   #105
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I think the best thing to control costs and resale value (other than obvious maintenance) is to buy a model (like you did) that will have good value in the future, and possibly even collector value.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:23 PM   #106
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Which number worries you, the 0 or the 20?
Both.
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I suspect newer cars are built with closer bearing tolerances. My 05 Ford calls for 5-20, my 07 Ford calls for 5-30. The engine in the 05 first appeared in 05, the one in the 07 first appeared in ~1990. Different technology, different oil.
But the oil film also has to protect valve guides, lifters, cam lobes, rings/cylinder walls--all places where there are no bearings. Nothing has changed about the need to protect against metal-on-metal contact here, and the oil viscosity required to accomplish that. What did change is the CAFE standards and the incentives to improve mileage (even a very tiny amount) at the expense of engine longevity.

Could bearing tolerances be tighter now because of the thinner oil? As you know, it would be darn tough to maintain required oil pressure in a 1970's-era bearing race with the water-like oil used today. Once the decision was made to thin the oil down to improve mileage .1 MPG, maybe the bearings had to be tightened up in order to give any hope of attaining sufficient oil pressure.

The situation is that the government's standards (CAFE) have caused vehicle manufacturers to respond in ways that are not in my best interest as a buyer of their products. Or, at the very least, the manufacturers now have such an incentive to recommend thin oil that I can no longer trust their recommendation.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:29 PM   #107
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Talk about oil pressure, I wonder if new cars have oil pumps with higher capacity, whose excess output is diverted by an integral pressure relief valve. It has been years since I overhauled an engine to know about the internal working of newer cars.

In the old days, it was quite common to see the oil pressure dropped (in cars that had an oil pressure gauge and not an idiot light) when at idle. On a hot day, I kept having to rev up the engine at the stop light to get that pressure up. Now, there is none of that problem in newer cars.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:51 PM   #108
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It's interesting, sam

I just checked the owners manual for my LBC toy built in 1961. It recommends a straight 20 weight if outside temps are below 80F, 30 if above. These cars also have a (well deserved) reputation for running hot. Its bearing, cylinder to piston, valve to guide etc. tolerances must be a lot looser than todays engines but 20 it is. Of course, at the time, multi-viscosity oils did not exist and 100K miles on an engine didn't either.

Today's oils, however, are unsuitable as they have removed the ZDDP additive required recommended for solid valve lifters. I run 15-40 diesel motor oil in it. Diesel for the Zddp, 15-40 because it's the thinest I can find around here.

Since my newish vehicles get 7-8K miles/yr, I think I'll follow the manufacturer's recommendations and let the cars turn to oxide before they wear out an engine. If you do get any data on viscosity vs. engine life please share, I am genuinely curious.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:55 PM   #109
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Talk about oil pressure, I wonder if new cars have oil pumps with higher capacity, whose excess output is diverted by an integral pressure relief valve.
My 50 year old Little British Car has that feature. I can't imagine a modern car not having one.
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:31 PM   #110
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The earlier cars circa 60-70 that I worked on always had the pressure relief valve for diverting excess oil pumped at high RPMs. Else, the higher oil pressure at high RPMs would have blown out engine gaskets.

What I meant was that their outputs seemed so puny that they did not appear to pump sufficient oil when at idle. Or was it that engine wear occurred so soon that all the bearings already got loose and caused oil pressure drop when only at 40K miles?

Back in those days, I could not afford to buy new cars in order to monitor the engine health since Day 1. Hence I did not know what the oil pressure at idle would have been on new engines then.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:09 PM   #111
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Today's oils, however, are unsuitable as they have removed the ZDDP additive required recommended for solid valve lifters. I run 15-40 diesel motor oil in it. Diesel for the Zddp, 15-40 because it's the thinest I can find around here.
I also run Diesel Oil in my 73 big block Chevelle. Also add EOS which has the ZDDP that the flat tappet motors of yesteryear require. EOS is Engine Oil Supplement from GM. I've been using it since the 60's.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:07 PM   #112
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Thoughts on car color having an impact on absorbing heat in summer?

What about tinted windows?
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:45 PM   #113
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It's simple, at least here in the Southwest. With temperature as high as 120F in the shade, sunshine with blue sky and no hint of a wisp of cloud, having a black or dark color car is asking to be roasted.

When I park my car outdoors, I always put on the windshield shade trying to reduce the interior temperature a few degrees as well as to reduce sun effect damages like an earlier poster noted.

Tinted windows are almost a necessity here, and dealers usually just put them on before selling the car. We take these things for granted, and I still remember talking to a Canadian engineer who was visiting from Montreal 30 years ago; he was amused at our precautions.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:58 PM   #114
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Here in the Frozen North we have had remote starters on our cars since the 80's. While they do some good warming up a car at -40 they do a great job cooling one. I used to start my car from a block away and when I got in the AC was blowing cold.

In the mid 90's Mega-Corp sent me on a 3 week vist to all US locations. This was late June and most were in the deep south, and HOT. I found I was starting the rentacar, turning on the AC and getting out for a few minutes while it cooled. I told my US co-w*rker that when I retired I was going to move south and start a business installing remote starters for the AC. I didn't. Did anyone else try this (ie. do any of you have such devices). If not I may reconsider and you southerners might want to add one.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:01 PM   #115
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Did anyone else try this (ie. do any of you have such devices). If not I may reconsider and you southerners might want to add one.
Yep, we have remote starters. Some of us more well-to-do types have indoor plumbing, too.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:14 PM   #116
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Yep, we have remote starters. Some of us more well-to-do types have indoor plumbing, too.
Indoor plumbing? naw, not really? I thought you grew corn so you could use the cobs in the little house on the back 40. After all, there ain't no more Sears-Roebuck catalogues.

In all seriousness, they were unheard of in the south in the mid 90's (at least where I was). Us northerners had had them for some time. After all, warm is more important than cool. They would also start the car and warm the engine whenever its coolant temp dropped below 0F.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:41 PM   #117
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None of my cars have a remote starter. What's the range of the remote? There are add-on kits one can buy, but I never bothered.

When I was working, at a megacorp I would have to walk 1/2 mi. from the office building to the parking lot. I was already all sweaty and hot when I got to the car anyway. I would turn the A/C fan on full-blast to blow the hot air out, and drive for a couple of miles before I raised the windows and switched the AC to recirculation mode.

Houses here typically have a 2 or 3-car attached garage, so at home it's not a problem to keep the cars cool.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:55 PM   #118
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I've always wondered. I usually maintain my tire pressures abou 2 lbs higher than what is recommended on the inside of the drivers door. My hypothesis is that with slight overinflation (~5%) the decrease in rolling resistance/increase in mileage exceeds any possible detriments of overinflated tires. Any thoughts on this?

Also, it seems to reduce the frequency of TPMS alerts that I get.
You are correct...although the difference in mgp is negligible. I do the same with my car....unless I'm taking the Mustang to the drag strip.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:00 PM   #119
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Talk about oil pressure, I wonder if new cars have oil pumps with higher capacity, whose excess output is diverted by an integral pressure relief valve. It has been years since I overhauled an engine to know about the internal working of newer cars.

In the old days, it was quite common to see the oil pressure dropped (in cars that had an oil pressure gauge and not an idiot light) when at idle. On a hot day, I kept having to rev up the engine at the stop light to get that pressure up. Now, there is none of that problem in newer cars.
New cars have something called a viscosity sensor. They can be either mechanical or electrical, although my experience is with mechanical ones (I helped design/test one of the first ones at our Fortune 200 MegaCorp back in the early 1990s) ...which accomplishes what you are talking about.

Solid-State Acoustic Wave Viscosity Sensors: The Future of Oil Condition Monitoring | Sensors
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:02 PM   #120
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Thoughts on car color having an impact on absorbing heat in summer?

What about tinted windows?
No direct knowledge of this, but who cares...why are you asking?
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