Saving too much?

[Shawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle43 The article says that you will be able to enjoy it more while you're young.

This statement from the article is unfortunate. I'm regularly around people in their 70's and 80's who are, for example, more physically active than the typical 25-year-old. These people can do things that most younger people would consider difficult to impossible. There is no reason why an average individual cannot have an extremely active and fulfilling life well into their 90's (at least). It takes planning, not just from a financial perspective but also from a health and lifestyle perspective.

I do not believe a person can save too much, unless they are saving to a point that it creates an unhealthy situation (not spending on necessary medical treatment). By and large, people who are heavy savers are also people who know exactly where their money is going. The problem is with those individuals who do not save, but think that it will all magically work out in the end.

A frugal person who stocks away considerable cash and investments can always ER. I'm 47 and drive a 27 year-old car that has a small cost to maintain and insure. The car does what it's supposed to do, which is get me to where I want to go. However, the article implies that I would be better off and happier if I spent these savings while young. Because I LBYM, I can ER today at 47 (although it likely will be at 50). The freedom and personal flexibility that the LBYM lifestyle gives me is, as they say, priceless.

[work4beer]

While I agree that variable spending after retirement should be considered, there are two huge problems with this article (i.e. the example in the graphic):

1) It assumes you have a pension. A pretty generous one, since they are assuming $12K from savings, lets say $12K from SS, which means they're assuming a $46K pension. The danger is people w/o pensions will look at that $400K number and think they are on track, when actually they will need an additional $920K or so.

2) The idea that any couple should have only $50K in savings at age 55, right when you're at the age where it's the hardest to find a job if disabled or laid off, is just plain reckless.

[haha]

I think this whole question is ridiculous. We all have wants, almost all of us including the lucky few on this board have satisfied many of those wants over the years, and continue to do so.

If someone wants to pile up his or her money, maybe they like the feeling of security, or power, or whatever more than they feel that they would like whatever they might be able to buy with the money.

I think people usually try to get what they think they want. Do we criticize someone who likes a short fat woman, and tell him "hey stupid you could find a tall thin one?"

Of course not, we think it must be what he likes in women and unless we are insufferably arrogant (which some of us may be ) we figure that he is allowed to make that choice.

Why are people who choose to save more than we ourselves might save such a frequent target for complaint on this board? After all this is a board about LBYM and getting free of the system. These so called misers have done that in spades.

Ha

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cut-Throat - We had breakfast yesterday morning with a few older friends of mine. One of these guys is 82 years old. He has had a bad year. He had both eyes operated on for cataracts recently (a success). But the rheumatoid arthritis he has put him in tremendous pain, he was recounting the many drugs, maladies and surgeries for about a half hour. he has lost all of his teeth due to some powerful drug side effects etc. etc. The rest of us realized that this guy does not have long to live without assisted living, as he cannot do much by himself any more. Now this guy has over $3 Million Liquid. He has no heirs. But this guys hobby was saving money and watching the pile get bigger. He still saving from his pension and S.S. He remembers the depression and that is part of his psyche. He truly hates spending money. Spending money gives him more pain than joy. After he quit talking about his health he was recounting a problem he had with his tires on his car. He had 40,000 miles on them! - He said maybe he would try and find some used wheels at a junkyard. - Someone suggested why don't you just buy a new set of tires and be done with it. A grimace came over his face, like we punched him in the gut! We're all thinking someone needs to take the keys to the car from him! - I'm thinking 'If had his limited time - I'd just buy a new car! He went on a trip to Alaska fishing with us about 13 years ago. Every other day he would say something like 'I'm paying $400 a day for this' 'I wonder what each fish I catch is costing me?' - He never enjoyed himself when he was there! He just never got over the cost of the trip. This guy would say he probably should have saved more money. He would also tell you that he should never have gone on that trip Alaska, as it cost him close to $4,000! - He really, really hates to spend money! Everyone is different and this sure is not how I live life! Takes all kinds I guess

Too bad he didn't pick up the breakfast tab-- you guys sure paid for that meal in more ways than one. Sounds like you need a new "friend".

Spouse has been working with the guy whose Navy Reserve billet she's taking over. He's pulling down high fives/low sixes in a military civil-service job where his experience & contacts guarantee him lifetime employment. He's also been drilling in the Reserves for well over two decades and will probably start pulling down a $40-$50K COLA pension in about 10 years... this is in addition to his civil-service pension and his TSP account.

But his military uniform is always well-worn and a bit ragged. His shoes have holes in the soles. When they were doing the physical fitness test, he was wearing a t-shirt & shorts that should've been in the rag bucket (I speak with some experience here). Spouse held his feet for the situps and his running shoe tore in her hands. He brown-bags his lunch and doesn't go out for travel meals (despite his food per diem). His car makes ours look new! He's enthused that he's now allowed to stay in the Reserves past the 30-year point and he'll probably drill until he's 60 years old.

Other Reservists say that he owns a half-dozen rental properties and is just as tight-fisted in work and at home (single guy, no kids). Judging from the pay scales & real estate values he's easily worth $2M even if he's paying alimony. But he just can't turn it off! It'd be one thing if he waxed enthusiastic about the inner-city kids he's helping or the charitable foundation he's building. Instead he looks like he's one step away from living on the streets and he seems to lead a cheerless existence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaHa I think this whole question is ridiculous. We all have wants, almost all of us including the lucky few on this board have satisfied many of those wants over the years, and continue to do so. If someone wants to pile up his or her money, maybe they like the feeling of security, or power, or whatever more than they feel that they would like whatever they might be able to buy with the money. Why are people who choose to save more than we ourselves might save such a frequent target for complaint on this board? After all this is a board about LBYM and getting free of the system. These so called misers have done that in spades.

I think the dividing line is between frugality & deprivation.

It's one thing to be quietly frugal for your lifetime and bequeath gazillions to the local schools or Humane Society.

It's quite another to socialize with Cut-Throat by ceaselessly complaining about one's problems and the cost of entertainment. (They didn't kidnap him and force him to make the fishing trip.) Instead of spreading the joy about their frugal bargains (or the "free" fish), "deprivites" choose to complain about the cost of everything. There's clearly a control problem there, just as much as if someone's an alcoholic or a drug addict, and they're clearly not having a happy experience with money.

Reminds me of the proverb about knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing. But maybe people like this just remind me too much of my parents-in-law.

[d]

so some of you know people who you think have saved too much ... do they think they have? have you saved too much?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords Too bad he didn't pick up the breakfast tab-- you guys sure paid for that meal in more ways than one. Sounds like you need a new "friend".

Actually this guy never comes to breakfast, unless my other good friend begs him and tells him that 'he'll buy' Resturants are wayyyy to expensive for him! - So the only way I knew this guy was through my 76 year old friend.

He's a kind hearted old soul and his future is a nursing home at best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d so some of you know people who you think have saved too much ... do they think they have? have you saved too much?

This is kind of a question like? - Asking a genie for any amount of money and that wish would be granted.

How much money would you wish for?

More than Bill Gates has?

What's your answer d?

[Gone4Good]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords Judging from the pay scales & real estate values he's easily worth $2M even if he's paying alimony. But he just can't turn it off! It'd be one thing if he waxed enthusiastic about the inner-city kids he's helping or the charitable foundation he's building. Instead he looks like he's one step away from living on the streets and he seems to lead a cheerless existence.

Sounds like this chap needs an intervention.

Plenty of people (most, perhaps) don't really know what is in their own best interest. Many people (most, perhaps) do things because they are expected to do them (i.g. get married, have kids, work long hours and years, etc. etc.). Many of these people (most, perhaps) would do things differently if only they took the time to reflect on what they really wanted out of life and then had the courage to break with convention, take some risks, and go for it.

Timidity is also an affliction of old (and middle) age.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaHa Why are people who choose to save more than we ourselves might save such a frequent target for complaint on this board? After all this is a board about LBYM and getting free of the system. These so called misers have done that in spades. Ha

I think what is a target on this board most frequently is the vast numbers of spenders across America with credit card debt, Living above your means etc. etc. - We all know you can't get to ER without some self control. This is usually the rant!

We have also seen the folks at the other end of the spectrum, where spending is painful - where all of life's pleasures are a 'waste of money'


Either end of the spectrum is not to be emulated or admired!

[CyclingInvestor]

The article also does not take into account the peace of mind that a big ol'
pile of savings can bring, even in the working years. When I was in my 20's
and 30's I always felt much better having already saved a good sum rather
than a pile of debt, so that replacing a car or paying for a vacation was a
minor event and not a crippling blow, or that if it took a year to find a new
job during the recessions it would not be a catastrophe. This reduction in
stress was worth far more than buying more garbage (TVs, new cars, clothes)
to pile around the house.

[Jarhead*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3 Yrs to Go Sounds like this chap needs an intervention. Plenty of people (most, perhaps) don't really know what is in their own best interest. Many people (most, perhaps) do things because they are expected to do them (i.g. get married, have kids, work long hours and years, etc. etc.). Many of these people (most, perhaps) would do things differently if only they took the time to reflect on what they really wanted out of life and then had the courage to break with convention, take some risks, and go for it. Timidity is also an affliction of old (and middle) age.

Well, you certainly get an A for arrogance with the above quote.

I'm with Ha on this one.

The real question that I would have re: this thread, is why so many of you
feel the need to be critical of somebody else's lifestyle?

For me personally, I've had my hands full in my life, handeling our situation.

Good luck on the conversion, though.

[d]

Quote:

What's your answer d?

to which question? to my own:
i know of no one who has saved too much, but many who have saved too little. i know of no one who thinks they have saved too much, many who realize they have saved too little, and a fair number who feel comfortable with their level of savings. i certainly have not saved too much ... if i felt that i had, i'd simply stop saving.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarhead* The real question that I would have re: this thread, is why so many of you feel the need to be critical of somebody else's lifestyle?

Ding! Ding! Ding!

[Leonidas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny Ding! Ding! Ding!

Indeed

[sallie4th]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr._johngalt You all know my story. I too thought of C-T when this topic came up. Looking back, I don't feel a bit deprived based on the "saving" I did in my youth (really didn't do any); nor do I feel a bit deprived now, even though I have scaled way back from my "salad days". Pretty much sailed through life doing what I wanted, when I wanted (both ex's will confirm this). It's been quite a party. JG

You bet....I will attest to this....emotionally constipated self absorption was the one "firm" thing throughout.


Moderator edit: quote fix.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Oh hell, i'm going to go make some more popcorn...

[UncleHoney]

I just love this comment in the article........

“There is risk in saving too much,” Mr. Kotlikoff said. “You could end up squandering your youth rather than your money.”

So you have to squander your money to enjoy it.

I my have saved too much for retirement, but I'm not the one that will be looking for a part time job at 75 because the price of cat food just went up.

[Jarhead*]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallie4th You bet....I will attest to this....emotionally constipated self absorption was the one "firm" thing throughout. Moderator edit: quote fix.

Sallie4: I was just going to turn in, decided to stay up for a while.

Welcome to the board.

[bssc]

Some people can never be too rich or too thin.

[alphabet soup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallie4th You bet....I will attest to this....emotionally constipated self absorption was the one "firm" thing throughout. Moderator edit: quote fix.

Sallie4th...the perfect antidote for (Galt)stones. Pleased to meet you.