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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire
Old 07-17-2005, 09:49 AM   #21
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire

Quote:
Originally Posted by nearly50
While true that spending on luxury class items like the aforementioned Lexus and overseas vacations probably decline, there's a baseline level that everyone needs to spend just to maintain a life, and this is increasing as time goes on. Could it possibly be that spending goes down as you age because your income and savings also go down, since you can't spend what you don't have? *And your baseline spending level must necessarily decline as lower quality substitutions are made in the interest of conserving capital? *

Are the spending levels quoted per person or per couple. *Many couples become widowed as you get past 70, thereby lowering spending levels.
No. The authors state that the net worths of the people surveyed continued to rise. Lack of funds wasn't the cause of the decreased annual spending.

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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire
Old 07-17-2005, 09:51 AM   #22
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire

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Originally Posted by Peter76
Does anyone know of a lie statistic listing the total number of elderly (i.e. over 65) people who are currently in a nursing home/assisted living facility, and the average length of time each person has been there?
You might be able to find the answer to your question here:

http://www.efmoody.com/longterm/nursingstatistics.html

REW
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire
Old 07-17-2005, 10:02 AM   #23
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire

Even if the premise that spending declines with age only holds partly true for current retirees, this is very encouraging. *Running FireCalc with an inflation adjusted draw even 1% lower than CPI, must result in much better survival rates...I'm guessing this would be similar to your investments yielding 1% more. *That is a great buffer!

At a minimum the study results imply retirees have significant ability to adjust their spending. *This is pretty encouraging to us wannabees * 8)

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Life isn't median or average.
Old 07-17-2005, 10:03 AM   #24
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Life isn't median or average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by intercst
One limitation of this data includes the potential absence of long-term care costs. For example, a person in a nursing home is unlikely to participate in a survey from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. This would give the health-care-expenditures category artificially low average expenses. *intercst
"Limitation". *Aye, there's the rub.

My grandfather died at 97, without LTC insurance & about a year short of Medicaid, after 14 years of senile dementia in a full-care facility. *(Sure hope there's no genetic link.)

So the study's authors are correct-- his personal spending declined precipitously after age 88, but his expenses went up every year.

We can dicker over the actual risks of ending up in a CCF and the length of the "average" (or median or whatever) stay but the bottom line is that it's a risk most of us aren't willing to take without insurance or a healthy slug of savings set aside. *(Or, in JG's case, a slug of a different caliber.) *If this study doesn't include LTC expenses then it's just feel-good financial porn brought to you by the Dent tribe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R_K
At a minimum the study results imply retirees have significant ability to adjust their spending. This is pretty encouraging to us wannabees 8)
Two words, R_K: cat food.
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Re: Life isn't median or average.
Old 07-17-2005, 10:08 AM   #25
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Re: Life isn't median or average.

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Originally Posted by Nords
If this study doesn't include LTC expenses then it's just feel-good financial porn brought to you by the Dent tribe.
LOLOLOLOL!!! Lucky for you, I didn't have any liquids in my mouth at the time...
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire
Old 07-17-2005, 10:08 AM   #26
 
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire

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giving the finger to the thought of international travel as they button up their Depends in the morning
Good image, very poetic.
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Re: Life isn't median or average.
Old 07-17-2005, 10:11 AM   #27
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Re: Life isn't median or average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
If this study doesn't include LTC expenses then it's just feel-good financial porn brought to you by the Dent tribe.
C'mon Nords, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel about it!

No study is going to ever do more than tell us what the general trend/average/median might be for any of us. Individual situations will be just that - individual.

All we can do is take our best shot with whatever weapon we choose...a bigger nest egg, LTC insurance or JG's 45.

REW
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire
Old 07-17-2005, 10:16 AM   #28
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire

Quote:
Say "Trip to France!" to a young person, and they think of a promenade near the Eiffel tower. *Say it to an older person, and they think of airline delays, hassles with car rentals, hotel surcharges, and not being able to find a bathroom.
Quote:
So, while they (older people) might be giving the finger to the thought of international travel as they button up their Depends in the morning...
Quote:
Now that they are in their early to mid-70's, they have definitely slowed down their travel and other discretionary spending. *They just don't have the energy or desire to stray too far from home or put up with the hassle factor. *When I mention taking a trip somwhere, I usually get a "been there, done that" response. *
I cannot begin to TELL you folks what a rosy picture of old age you're painting for us under 50s! *

I'd be really depressed if it weren't for my 75-year-old hike leader, still leading 10-mile-per-day / 7-day-per-trip backpack trips through Utah, or the 73-year-old I met coming down from the summit of Kilimanjaro as I went up, or the 72-year-old couple who just finished a three-month backpack / bed-and-breakfast through Italy.

Seriously, though -- spending patterns do seem to be highly individual. *In my case I could see my spending being LOW in early retirement as I rent / sell the house and hit the road fulltime in my "steel tent" or try out various low-cost countries (as many on this board are doing). *Costs would increase later as I age and return to home base. *

All things being equal I'd hope to be on top of Kilimanjaro at 73 again, and would hope my spending stays up as I remain vigorous. *Either way, the article is food for thought and thanks for the link!

Caroline








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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire
Old 07-17-2005, 10:39 AM   #29
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire

Nords:

As to cat food, I find that "Little Friskies" have a delightful crunch and a mouth watering fishy aroma* *
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Re: Life isn't median or average.
Old 07-17-2005, 11:14 AM   #30
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Re: Life isn't median or average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
"Limitation". *Aye, there's the rub.

My grandfather died at 97, without LTC insurance & about a year short of Medicaid, after 14 years of senile dementia in a full-care facility. *(Sure hope there's no genetic link.)

So the study's authors are correct-- his personal spending declined precipitously after age 88, but his expenses went up every year.

We can dicker over the actual risks of ending up in a CCF and the length of the "average" (or median or whatever) stay but the bottom line is that it's a risk most of us aren't willing to take without insurance or a healthy slug of savings set aside. *(Or, in JG's case, a slug of a different caliber.) *If this study doesn't include LTC expenses then it's just feel-good financial porn brought to you by the Dent tribe.
Two words, R_K:* cat food.
Nords: Your comments on this study remind me of the guy that says his wife always closes her eyes while they're having sex, because she can't stand to see him have a good time.

Fact of the matter is, it's been our experience, and most other folks in our age category, that I am familiar with, find that study to be pretty accurate. (Actually, I came to that conclusion a long time ago.)

Is it possible to come up with scenarios that would shoot down the best laid plans? Hell yes.
-hit happens.

My only point in replying to the study is that I totally agree that the time to do the things that you really have a desire to do are best done while you're young enough to really enjoy them.

Made sense to me when I was 49, and it makes sense to me at, well, older

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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire
Old 07-17-2005, 11:33 AM   #31
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
I cannot begin to TELL you folks what a rosy picture of old age you're painting for us under 50s! *

I'd be really depressed if it weren't for my 75-year-old hike leader, still leading 10-mile-per-day / 7-day-per-trip backpack trips through Utah, or the 73-year-old I met coming down from the summit of Kilimanjaro as I went up, or the 72-year-old couple who just finished a three-month backpack / bed-and-breakfast through Italy.

Seriously, though -- spending patterns do seem to be highly individual. *In my case I could see my spending being LOW in early retirement as I rent / sell the house and hit the road fulltime in my "steel tent" or try out various low-cost countries (as many on this board are doing). *Costs would increase later as I age and return to home base. *

All things being equal I'd hope to be on top of Kilimanjaro at 73 again, and would hope my spending stays up as I remain vigorous. *Either way, the article is food for thought and thanks for the link!

Caroline








Caroline, I too admire those older folks still engaging in strenuous
sports/activities. I think it's terrific. I can't do it myself, but still..............
OTOH, I comfort myself with the thought that a lot of folks my age are dead

JG
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Re: Life isn't median or average.
Old 07-17-2005, 11:34 AM   #32
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Re: Life isn't median or average.

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
C'mon Nords, don't hold back.* Tell us how you really feel about it!

No study is going to ever do more than tell us what the general trend/average/median might be for any of us.* Individual situations will be just that - individual.

All we can do is take our best shot with whatever weapon we choose...a bigger nest egg, LTC insurance or JG's 45.

REW
It's a .357 Magnum. Should be enough.

JG
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire
Old 07-17-2005, 11:38 AM   #33
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire

Quote:
Originally Posted by R_K


At a minimum the study results imply retirees have significant ability to adjust their spending. *This is pretty encouraging to us wannabees * 8)

We have that ability. Believe me, it's quite "encouraging" to those of us
in ER as well.

JG
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Re: Life isn't median or average.
Old 07-17-2005, 11:40 AM   #34
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Re: Life isn't median or average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
It's a .357 Magnum. Should be enough.

JG
Overestimated your caliber. Guess you aren't really a big shot.
(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire
Old 07-17-2005, 11:47 AM   #35
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-Jarhead
Just wanted to make one more point, re: spending at age 49 retired, and 19 years later.

We have not downsized our home, to allow more potential cash flow.

Our home is in the Sierra Foothills, on the rim of a canyon, and it is 3400 sq. feet. *3 car garage, over 2,000 feet of decking, enclosed by wraught iron fencing, etc. etc.

We just spent $12,000.00 to replace all the flooring.

Point being, we have made no effort to change our set *bills since retiring, and are still spending about the same as we were 19 years ago. *(If we were willing to downsize, it would be less then it was).

It has been apparant to me for some time, that there has been a shift in what we used to spend money on, and what we do at this stage.

We're all different, and that's what makes a horse race, but for us that article is pretty much valid.

Jarhead
I did not read the article (time for my nap). But, we downsized/cut back
just about everything. I tried to think of one possession or expense
that hasn't been reduced. Couldn't do it. Hey..we do have a nicer
computer. Think I paid $399.00 net after rebates. That's it.
Houses, furnishings, vehicles, travel, dining out, insurance
(all types), clothing, jewelry, groceries, etc etc etc. All way less
than 1993 (year I semiretired). And, we could go way less than where
we are if necessary.

JG
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Re: Life isn't median or average.
Old 07-17-2005, 11:49 AM   #36
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Re: Life isn't median or average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
"Limitation". *Aye, there's the rub.

My grandfather died at 97, without LTC insurance & about a year short of Medicaid, after 14 years of senile dementia in a full-care facility. *(Sure hope there's no genetic link.)

So the study's authors are correct-- his personal spending declined precipitously after age 88, but his expenses went up every year.

We can dicker over the actual risks of ending up in a CCF and the length of the "average" (or median or whatever) stay but the bottom line is that it's a risk most of us aren't willing to take without insurance or a healthy slug of savings set aside. *(Or, in JG's case, a slug of a different caliber.) *If this study doesn't include LTC expenses then it's just feel-good financial porn brought to you by the Dent tribe.
Two words, R_K:* cat food.
Actually, the risks of a long stay in a nursing home are a lot less than the LTC insurance industry would lead you to believe. See the chart in this article (3/4 way down the page):

http://www.fool.com/retirement/care/04.htm

Less than 10% of the people over 65 spend more than 5 years in a nursing home. I'll bet a 14-year stay is less than 1 in a 100.

intercst

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Re: Life isn't median or average.
Old 07-17-2005, 11:53 AM   #37
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Re: Life isn't median or average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by intercst
Actually, the risks of a long stay in a nursing home are a lot less than the LTC insurance industry would lead you to believe. See the chart in this article (3/4 way down the page):

http://www.fool.com/retirement/care/04.htm

Less than 10% of the people over 65 spend more than 5 years in a nursing home. I'll bet a 14-year stay is less than 1 in a 100.

intercst

You could be right. I know a lady who is right at 14 years now.
Unfortunately, she went in when she was 50. A sad case.

JG
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire
Old 07-17-2005, 12:01 PM   #38
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire

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Originally Posted by TromboneAl
Good image, very poetic.
I agree, and BTW, those folks have problems with out continents
as well as incontinence.

JG
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire
Old 07-17-2005, 12:29 PM   #39
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire

The older gang at work had a little conversation at work about long-term care insurance and how much sell pressure there was from the salesman that came in to talk to them about. One of the older workers (that actually never seems to want to retire) told me that is what your savings are for and dont bother with this insurance and several had concerns about the difficulty in collecting money if it needed.

There certainly is a case of "over-insuring" yourself, I think.
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire
Old 07-17-2005, 04:13 PM   #40
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Re: Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire

Quote:
Originally Posted by R_K
Nords:

As to cat food, I find that "Little Friskies" have a delightful crunch and a mouth watering fishy aroma
I prefer mine in the morning with some reconstituted non-fat dry milk.
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