Scott Burns -- You're Saving Too Much to Retire

[TromboneAl]

giving the finger to the thought of international travel as they button up their Depends in the morning

Good image, very poetic.

 

[REWahoo]

Re: Life isn't median or average.

If this study doesn't include LTC expenses then it's just feel-good financial porn brought to you by the Dent tribe.

C'mon Nords, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel about it!

No study is going to ever do more than tell us what the general trend/average/median might be for any of us. Individual situations will be just that - individual.

All we can do is take our best shot with whatever weapon we choose...a bigger nest egg, LTC insurance or JG's 45.

REW

 

[Caroline]

Say "Trip to France!" to a young person, and they think of a promenade near the Eiffel tower.  Say it to an older person, and they think of airline delays, hassles with car rentals, hotel surcharges, and not being able to find a bathroom.

So, while they (older people) might be giving the finger to the thought of international travel as they button up their Depends in the morning...

Now that they are in their early to mid-70's, they have definitely slowed down their travel and other discretionary spending.  They just don't have the energy or desire to stray too far from home or put up with the hassle factor.  When I mention taking a trip somwhere, I usually get a "been there, done that" response.  

I cannot begin to TELL you folks what a rosy picture of old age you're painting for us under 50s!  

I'd be really depressed if it weren't for my 75-year-old hike leader, still leading 10-mile-per-day / 7-day-per-trip backpack trips through Utah, or the 73-year-old I met coming down from the summit of Kilimanjaro as I went up, or the 72-year-old couple who just finished a three-month backpack / bed-and-breakfast through Italy.

Seriously, though -- spending patterns do seem to be highly individual.  In my case I could see my spending being LOW in early retirement as I rent / sell the house and hit the road fulltime in my "steel tent" or try out various low-cost countries (as many on this board are doing).  Costs would increase later as I age and return to home base.  

All things being equal I'd hope to be on top of Kilimanjaro at 73 again, and would hope my spending stays up as I remain vigorous.  Either way, the article is food for thought and thanks for the link!

Caroline

 

[RockMiner]

Nords:

As to cat food, I find that "Little Friskies" have a delightful crunch and a mouth watering fishy aroma   

 

[Jarhead*]

Re: Life isn't median or average.

"Limitation".  Aye, there's the rub.

My grandfather died at 97, without LTC insurance & about a year short of Medicaid, after 14 years of senile dementia in a full-care facility.  (Sure hope there's no genetic link.)

So the study's authors are correct-- his personal spending declined precipitously after age 88, but his expenses went up every year.

We can dicker over the actual risks of ending up in a CCF and the length of the "average" (or median or whatever) stay but the bottom line is that it's a risk most of us aren't willing to take without insurance or a healthy slug of savings set aside.  (Or, in JG's case, a slug of a different caliber.)  If this study doesn't include LTC expenses then it's just feel-good financial porn brought to you by the Dent tribe.
Two words, R_K:  cat food.

Nords: Your comments on this study remind me of the guy that says his wife always closes her eyes while they're having sex, because she can't stand to see him have a good time.

Fact of the matter is, it's been our experience, and most other folks in our age category, that I am familiar with, find that study to be pretty accurate. (Actually, I came to that conclusion a long time ago.)

Is it possible to come up with scenarios that would shoot down the best laid plans? Hell yes.
-hit happens.

My only point in replying to the study is that I totally agree that the time to do the things that you really have a desire to do are best done while you're young enough to really enjoy them.

Made sense to me when I was 49, and it makes sense to me at, well, older

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I cannot begin to TELL you folks what a rosy picture of old age you're painting for us under 50s!  

I'd be really depressed if it weren't for my 75-year-old hike leader, still leading 10-mile-per-day / 7-day-per-trip backpack trips through Utah, or the 73-year-old I met coming down from the summit of Kilimanjaro as I went up, or the 72-year-old couple who just finished a three-month backpack / bed-and-breakfast through Italy.

Seriously, though -- spending patterns do seem to be highly individual.  In my case I could see my spending being LOW in early retirement as I rent / sell the house and hit the road fulltime in my "steel tent" or try out various low-cost countries (as many on this board are doing).  Costs would increase later as I age and return to home base.  

All things being equal I'd hope to be on top of Kilimanjaro at 73 again, and would hope my spending stays up as I remain vigorous.  Either way, the article is food for thought and thanks for the link!

Caroline

Caroline, I too admire those older folks still engaging in strenuous
sports/activities. I think it's terrific. I can't do it myself, but still..............
OTOH, I comfort myself with the thought that a lot of folks my age are dead

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Re: Life isn't median or average.

C'mon Nords, don't hold back.  Tell us how you really feel about it!

No study is going to ever do more than tell us what the general trend/average/median might be for any of us.  Individual situations will be just that - individual.

All we can do is take our best shot with whatever weapon we choose...a bigger nest egg, LTC insurance or JG's 45.

REW

It's a .357 Magnum. Should be enough.

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

At a minimum the study results imply retirees have significant ability to adjust their spending.  This is pretty encouraging to us wannabees   8)

We have that ability. Believe me, it's quite "encouraging" to those of us
in ER as well.

JG

 

[REWahoo]

Re: Life isn't median or average.

It's a .357 Magnum. Should be enough.

JG

Overestimated your caliber. Guess you aren't really a big shot.
(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

REW

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Just wanted to make one more point, re: spending at age 49 retired, and 19 years later.

We have not downsized our home, to allow more potential cash flow.

Our home is in the Sierra Foothills, on the rim of a canyon, and it is 3400 sq. feet.  3 car garage, over 2,000 feet of decking, enclosed by wraught iron fencing, etc. etc.

We just spent $12,000.00 to replace all the flooring.

Point being, we have made no effort to change our set  bills since retiring, and are still spending about the same as we were 19 years ago.  (If we were willing to downsize, it would be less then it was).

It has been apparant to me for some time, that there has been a shift in what we used to spend money on, and what we do at this stage.

We're all different, and that's what makes a horse race, but for us that article is pretty much valid.

Jarhead

I did not read the article (time for my nap). But, we downsized/cut back
just about everything. I tried to think of one possession or expense
that hasn't been reduced. Couldn't do it. Hey..we do have a nicer
computer. Think I paid $399.00 net after rebates. That's it.
Houses, furnishings, vehicles, travel, dining out, insurance
(all types), clothing, jewelry, groceries, etc etc etc. All way less
than 1993 (year I semiretired). And, we could go way less than where
we are if necessary.

JG

 

[intercst]

Re: Life isn't median or average.

"Limitation".  Aye, there's the rub.

My grandfather died at 97, without LTC insurance & about a year short of Medicaid, after 14 years of senile dementia in a full-care facility.  (Sure hope there's no genetic link.)

So the study's authors are correct-- his personal spending declined precipitously after age 88, but his expenses went up every year.

We can dicker over the actual risks of ending up in a CCF and the length of the "average" (or median or whatever) stay but the bottom line is that it's a risk most of us aren't willing to take without insurance or a healthy slug of savings set aside.  (Or, in JG's case, a slug of a different caliber.)  If this study doesn't include LTC expenses then it's just feel-good financial porn brought to you by the Dent tribe.
Two words, R_K:  cat food.

Actually, the risks of a long stay in a nursing home are a lot less than the LTC insurance industry would lead you to believe. See the chart in this article (3/4 way down the page):

http://www.fool.com/retirement/care/04.htm

Less than 10% of the people over 65 spend more than 5 years in a nursing home. I'll bet a 14-year stay is less than 1 in a 100.

intercst

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Re: Life isn't median or average.

Actually, the risks of a long stay in a nursing home are a lot less than the LTC insurance industry would lead you to believe. See the chart in this article (3/4 way down the page):

http://www.fool.com/retirement/care/04.htm

Less than 10% of the people over 65 spend more than 5 years in a nursing home. I'll bet a 14-year stay is less than 1 in a 100.

intercst

You could be right. I know a lady who is right at 14 years now.
Unfortunately, she went in when she was 50. A sad case.

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Good image, very poetic.

I agree, and BTW, those folks have problems with out continents
as well as incontinence.

JG

 

[maddythebeagle]

The older gang at work had a little conversation at work about long-term care insurance and how much sell pressure there was from the salesman that came in to talk to them about. One of the older workers (that actually never seems to want to retire) told me that is what your savings are for and dont bother with this insurance and several had concerns about the difficulty in collecting money if it needed.

There certainly is a case of "over-insuring" yourself, I think.

 

[MJ]

Nords:

As to cat food, I find that "Little Friskies" have a delightful crunch and a mouth watering fishy aroma

I prefer mine in the morning with some reconstituted non-fat dry milk.

 

[MJ]

I cannot begin to TELL you folks what a rosy picture of old age you're painting for us under 50s!

I'd be really depressed if it weren't for my 75-year-old hike leader, still leading 10-mile-per-day / 7-day-per-trip backpack trips through Utah, or the 73-year-old I met coming down from the summit of Kilimanjaro as I went up, or the 72-year-old couple who just finished a three-month backpack / bed-and-breakfast through Italy.

Caroline, thanks for the ageless reminder. I was starting to get depressed and I'm 57.
Now that I am permanently unemployed, I hope to do 7 to 10 years of international travelling, followed by 10 years of North America RV'ing. My father who is 94 until last year continued to go annually to Miami Beach.


MJ

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Caroline, thanks for the ageless reminder. I was starting to get depressed and I'm 57.
Now that I am permanently unemployed, I hope to do 7 to 10 years of international travelling, followed by 10 years of North America RV'ing. My father who is 94 until last year continued to go annually to Miami Beach.


MJ

Hello MJ! Don't wait. Start now! As an aside, I am still thinking about
one last BIG change, before I take up the rocking chair. May not happen,
but I just love the concept. Friends and relatives saying "What the Hell
is he doing now?" That alone would be worth the angst.
Stay tuned.....................

JG

 

[MJ]

Hello MJ! Don't wait. Start now!

Thanks JG, I am.
To get my feet wet, I haven't been in the water for a while, I'm going to Thailand for 30 or so days at the end of October.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

The older gang at work had a little conversation at work about long-term care insurance and how much sell pressure there was from the salesman that came in to talk to them about. One of the older workers (that actually never seems to want to retire) told me that is what your savings are for and dont bother with this insurance and several had concerns about the difficulty in collecting money if it needed.

There certainly is a case of "over-insuring" yourself, I think.

The "Hemingway exit" avoids many many problems. Forget the insurance...........
just invest in a longer garden hose and maybe a deluxe carpet shampoo
system. Works for me

JG

 

[Billy]

MJ,
We'll be running around Thailand about the same time. Actually, we are heading there in a few weeks, but will definitely be in the area in October, just not sure where exactly. Is this your first trip? Feel free to contact us.

Sawadee
Billy
Website  www.RetireEarlyLifestyle.com

 

[Yipee-Ki-O]

I thought the study was quite interesting. It's a look at the "average" person, so of course the numbers will be different for each individual. My parents sort of fit the patterns mentioned, although I'm not sure that their spending has decreased that much over the years because they never spent much money. They also never made much money, nowhere near amount required to support the level of spending shown in the studies.

I've also noticed that my own spending habits haven't changed much over time. My income has more than doubled over the past 18 years, but my annual expenditures have only increased a fraction of that amount. All the retirement calculators have a person spending more and more each year. My personal experience is contrary to that. The overall trend is up, but not to the degree that the calculators would indicate would be necessary to keep up with inflation. So, I'm thinking that there is more wiggle room in how much of a nest egg one needs to retire than the number that one of the calculators will spit out. Maybe that's a delusion, but it's my delusion and I plan to stick with it!

 

[unclemick]

I think I'm saying the same thing as a lot of posters - as follows: since 1993 in ER, our core/basic budget has risen in current dollars - but the income producing capability of our portfolio has expanded greatly - kindness of history and time.

Our travel bug got worked out during working years - need to get away from work thing. In ER - the urge to travel died off in the first couple years. I.e. - something we didn't realize - until ER - travel was work related - to get as far away from the job as possible to destress.

 

[MJ]

MJ,
We'll be running around Thailand about the same time. Actually, we are heading there in a few weeks, but will definitely be in the area in October, just not sure where exactly. Is this your first trip? Feel free to contact us.

Sawadee
Billy
Website www.RetireEarlyLifestyle.com

Hi Billy,

Yes this will be my 1st trip to LOS. Isn't this the start of the monsoon season. I would love to go sooner like September but I was told weatherwise, it would be preferable to go at the end of October or beginning of November.

Any suggestions?

 

[Jarhead*]

I think I'm saying the same thing as a lot of posters - as follows: since 1993 in ER, our core/basic budget has risen in current dollars - but the income producing capability of our portfolio has expanded greatly - kindness of history and time.

Our travel bug got worked out during working years - need to get away from work thing. In ER - the urge to travel died off in the first couple years. I.e. - something we didn't realize - until ER - travel was work related - to get as far away from the job as possible to destress.

Unclemick: Can't speak for the other posters, but my point when I posted was that due to the
change of both myself and my wife's tastes, and spending habits, over the last 19 years since I retired, we find ourselves spending just about the same monthly amount that we started out with when we first retired. Actual amount, not adjusted for inflation.
Probably beating this point to death, but the change was an evolution, and not a self-imposed tightening up of the purse strings.

Regards, Jarhead

 

[preben]

MJ; high season (meaning "cool" and sunny) is the winter months - nov-march. Oct can be ok too. An interesting thing about the Thai weather is that even in the "rainy season" we still have sunny days most of the time - but in the late afternoon some rain comes - and goes away again in the later eve.

Billy; if you are in BKK (writing LOS will confuse everybody in this board MJ ) don't forget we gotta meet for a beer too! I might be in Changmai later in the year also.
Cheers!