Selling Out

I can't imagine wanting to lock in my losses like that.

I do understand wanting to DO SOMETHING. But I guess that doing nothing is the best I can come up with.

It's going to get better.

Yep. I can almost hear the hum of of those little Vanguard computers rebalancing my Target Retirement clear out here in Kansas City. Can't make out the tune but I'm sure it's catchy.

Mardi Gras is Feb 24 this year, then Jazz Fest and can Spring be far behind. So get your snow sking in while you can.

heh heh heh - if Market fluction actually tears you up emotionally - maybe Google up Zvi Bodie and research his inflation protected/TIPS type portfolio.:cool:. More than one way to skin a cat. Heck I've known people who retired on rental RE and CD's. :).
 
I was actually thinking of buying the special gov't bonds (G fund) in my TSP (gov't 401K) instead of the stock funds.

But then I realized that if I was going to discount history (stocks being a good long term investment) and embrace a new investment strategy (bonds only) there may be other fundamental "rules" I would have to change in my mind (the economy, home ownership, social spending, etc).

I don't have the mental energy for that right now, so will stick with stocks. Hope it doesn't turn out that I'm burying my head in the sand...
 
Yeah, he's pretty funny that way.

Makes me afraid to look back at some of my past posts. I know I've said my fair share of dumb stuff:duh:
 
Although my cash and gold woked out better, I did kind of screw up my bear market fund (bearx) timing. I bought it in 2007, expecting a recession in 2008. The S&P500 gained about 10% after I bought the fund. Now it had to drop about 9% before I even broke even. That's as close as I could call the top.

The S&P500 then lost close to 20% and the media was acknowledging that consumer debt was too high, savings had to increase, and spending was obviouly going to drop. I held on, but the market rose about 10% after that. At that point everything I was expecting seemed to be out in the open, the market had pretty much hit bear territory, and had risen substantially to right about the point where I had bought the bear market fund. So I went ahead and sold the fund and went back to normal equity funds. There was one rebablance I was able to make between the buy and sell, so I did make something with that at least. I sold the gold (fsagx, not the metal) at the same time, but it was up 38% at time and then fell with the market, so that was good timing even if it was luck.

So two keys to timing: hit the peak and hit the bottom. Miss the peak and the bottom by just 10% and you could have a bear market and not make anything. I'm not sure I would bother trying that again, but starting retirement into an expected recession made it seem reasonable at the time.

I did better with my cash, though the primary reason I was taking out cash was to fund the first couple of years of retirement during the expected recession. My largest equity to cash conversion was within a few percent of the peak, the rest was again about 10% early. When the market went below 20% for good and DW decided she would continue working, I divided the cash (minus 2 years living costs) into 5 equal parts and invested one part each time the market hit another 5% down (from the peak). That took me to 45% from the peak (I skipped 40% since it happened so fast), at which time I added HELOC borrowed money for another 2 steps down to 55% using mostly ETF's. I was adding money 11/20/08 at the bottom (so far), so that ended up pretty well. I have used some of the reserved money to buy cheaper ETF shares during dips and sell the more expensive shares at peaks.

I have maintained my AA and rebalanced at my trigger points (+/-20% imbalance for any fund) during all this, other than having cash when I'm nominally 100% equities.

I always set a target point where I will buy or sell equities. It is impossible (for me) to know if any point is a peak or bottom. I just try to be within about 5%-10% of the bottom by buying all the way down. I don't want to wait until the market is 20% above the bottom and then jump in. There's still no guarantee it will continue up instead of going back down again. And you know the bottom will be when things look absolutely terrible.

As it is, I will have some shares I can sell at a gain even if the market just slowly rises out of this recession. Probably good enough to match my retirement projections at least, but hopefully better! If the market starts exceeding my retirement projections I'll be able to convert to cash again and be ready for any future dips (I hope). I will definitely continue doing that.
 
I know nothing about nothing. So I'm staying put. Hope to break even one day. Pretty pitiful, I know. :(
 
All my feeble attempts at market timing in the past seem to have resulted in my selling at the bottom and buying at the top (Gold at $850 an ounce back in 1980 anyone?). I actually started making progress in this RE/FI stuff when I decided on an asset allocation and just stuck with it with occasional rebalancing when things got too bad out of quilter. Starting my 7th year of RE and still ahead of where I was when I retired so AA works for me so far...
 
I'm selling out completely and going all in on guitars. I've got a special deal on a 1969 Fender Stratocaster, original pick-ups, maple neck, strung upside down for a left-handed mfing genius, Jimi Hendrix. :D
 
Has anyone within the past month or so sold their entire stock portfolio and just gone with fixed income (CD/MM/ Treasuries) and wait for the tide to settle. I imagine this is easier with a IRA than in a taxable account from an accounting(tax) standpoint.

Nope.

I'm still counting on a pension to fund 60% of my needs so I can understand the pressure for others who don't have this backstop. I have not sold any equities and hope that they will come back over the next 10 years before I may need to tap them.

However, nothing is certain and if my pension were to go up in smoke before I retire next year I may have to think again but still can't see myself selling all my equities.
 
Article in the Jan Issue of the American Association of Individual Investors Journal entitled " Stocks for the Long Term : Why Propsects are Rosy"

"We emphasize two things that investors should not do now. First, do not bail out of the stock market...."

Authors suggested that individuals already retired should rebalance back to their strategic asset allocation, and some who have the risk tolerance and nest egg to do so may want to make a tactical over allocation to stocks 5-10% above their strategic allocation.

Another quote "We suspect that many investors let emotions rule the day, which causes them to follow the buy-high-and-sell-low strategy."

Authors are Dale L Domian and William Reichenstein.

Like many I failed to take huge gains during the tech bubble, then stubbornly held on til I realized huge real losses. I guess looking at all the unrealized losses that I have today, I'm probably more like the average investor that I'd like to think.

Jim
 
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I recall plenty of posts where people talk about their success. Isn't that the one of the points? Share your successes and failures? I've talked about my failures such as during the dot.com bust - but wait a minute, before REWahoo consults the history channel, maybe I'm forgetting and I did that on another group.

But I suppose it's comes down to "It's better to be conventionally wrong than unconventionally right".
 
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This should be pretty simple. If you sell now and buy back when the market is up another 20% and looking more positive, all you've done is miss out on a 20% gain. If you sell now and are lucky enough to see the market go down 20% to new lows, are you ready to buy? That's the only way selling now makes sense. Buy low, sell high.
 
Ferco, I am thinking about it but terrible anxious and confused. I'm aware of all the arguments about selling off equities now. I feel the market is going to sink even lower and stay that way for awhile. So, do I park some/all of my equity funds in a safe place even if it's earning a miserable return but not losing anything and get back in when the market reaches these or somewhat better levels again and hope it isn't just a false rally or do I stay the course and have to wait I don't know how many - but many, years before I can recoup the losses. While I am not entirely dependent on my IRA money, I do need some of it to supplement meager pensions. Too young for SS yet. I do have 3-4 years of cash in MM.
The bad news seems to be getting worse every day and it doesn't seem that the stimulus/bailout money is going to produce good enough results.
Good luck either way.
Larry
 
I feel the market is going to sink even lower and stay that way for awhile.
You could very well be correct. However, others feel differently:

Bulls set for a bounce back

"NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- With equities bouncing back after an initial smack on Thursday -- and Friday's jobs report for January looming -- the bear market is likely at or near a level where history would dictate investors step back in."

Don't we all wish we knew which view of the future will turn out to be more accurate...
 
No matter how bad the downturn, and how loudly we cry "Uncle!!" it seems like the market has a mind of its own.

Kind of makes you nostalgic, thinking of the old days of economic prosperity, doesn't it? :)
 
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