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Old 10-09-2019, 10:30 AM   #141
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An even better solution is what my car has -- a complete searchable manual loaded to the car's infotainment system that I can access with two taps on the screen.
IMHO, the best solution is to sell cars, simple cars, that get me from point A to point B, not a rolling computer/entertainment system that requires navigating 15 computer screens, each with several drop down menus and sub-menus.

Interesting fact: In 2017, the USS John S. McCain (DDG-56) ran into a Liberian tanker in the Strait of Malacca, resulting in the deaths of 10 sailors. A principal contributing factor was that no one on the bridge could figure out the computer that controlled the separation of the steering function (rudder) from the throttle function (engines), and they accordingly screwed up the transfer of throttle control from the helm to the lee-helm station. So the ship was unable to maintain its heading and crossed into the path of the tanker. When I was in the Navy, that transfer would have been made via a simple, two-position, manually operated switch.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:36 AM   #142
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I'm not as optimistic as you. Unless there is a breakthrough in technology increases will continue to be gradual.

There is a lot more than tires and wipers to worry about on electric cars.

And, no one will ever offer a 1 million mile warranty on a car.
The air cabin filter has to be changed every 2 years. So tires, wipers and air filters. It's really nice not to have to repair all those engine parts that break down with an ICE car.

Model 3 batteries are expected to last 300,000 to 500,000 miles. Replacements run around 5-7K. That's in todays prices. And car and driver wrote an article on Tesla developing a 1,000,000 mile battery. No discussion on the warranty.

Another poster mentioned the weight of his truck. My Model X weighs 5300lbs.

For those of you that like ICE cars or are unwilling to adapt, continue driving what you want to drive. California is up to 5.6% of new car purchases being EV. A state with 38 million people. I remember when online retail sales crossed the 1% threshold. Now years later the list of retail stores closing is long and mall traffic is nothing what it used to be.
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:59 AM   #143
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The air cabin filter has to be changed every 2 years. So tires, wipers and air filters. It's really nice not to have to repair all those engine parts that break down with an ICE car.

Model 3 batteries are expected to last 300,000 to 500,000 miles. Replacements run around 5-7K. That's in todays prices. And car and driver wrote an article on Tesla developing a 1,000,000 mile battery. No discussion on the warranty.

Another poster mentioned the weight of his truck. My Model X weighs 5300lbs.

For those of you that like ICE cars or are unwilling to adapt, continue driving what you want to drive. California is up to 5.6% of new car purchases being EV. A state with 38 million people. I remember when online retail sales crossed the 1% threshold. Now years later the list of retail stores closing is long and mall traffic is nothing what it used to be.
Then you will just have to deal with the smug.

https://youtu.be/mxuwXczWQC0
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I take thee, Tesla, as my beloved car, till death do us part
Old 10-09-2019, 12:35 PM   #144
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I take thee, Tesla, as my beloved car, till death do us part

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...car and driver wrote an article on Tesla developing a 1,000,000 mile battery. No discussion on the warranty.
For a typical car driven about 15,000 miles per year, the battery will last for 67 years. A seven year loan is only a blink by comparison!
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:10 PM   #145
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I like new technology as long as it is making something better, not just different. So, many of the new gadgets in cars are really entertainment, not making for easier or safer driving. I rented a car last year on vacation. I have always been considered an intelligent person and good the technology, since I worked in IT mist of my life. But I got in the car, put the key in and pushed every button, every way, trying to get it to start. I finally swallowed my pride and went back into ask how to start it. Apparently, there was a certain rhythm on key, button, brake, hold your mouth just right that had to be done in the right order. I hadn't seen one of these new cars since I drive 2002 Highlander and you can start it by simply insert and turn key. Not only that, that the TV screen that sits where the speedometer used to constantly distracted me with stupid messages. It would flash a sign when you were 100 ft from a signal, then at 50 ft. Like you can't see a bright red or green light right in front of you. Then it would tell you there was a pedestrian 50 ft ahead, but they were on the curb waiting for a bus, so I can see that. I have to wear reading glasses to read anything, but I cannot see with them if I'm driving, only for reading. So, I'd have take my eyes off the road, put on glasses, read the unnecessary message, take them off and look at the road again, if I was going to try to read them. There were a dozen other messages it popped up too, but I eventually learned to just ignore them. Who the heck thinks up these new distractions and why? What they need us something that tells you to "watch the road", not that distracts you from it.
A few weeks ago, I ended up with a really loaded 2019 Infiniti XG30 as a rental car for my annual trip from Texas to Connecticut (unanticipated rental upgrade). By the time I made it to I-44 in Missouri, about 500 miles, I had figured out how to disable all but one of the annoying screen messages from the convenience (aka, safety) features. We got that last one to quit flashing at us later in the week.

The balance of the use of the seemingly nice car for the trip was pleasurable.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:45 PM   #146
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Interest rates are out of whack wrt risk. It doesnít make sense that I can get a 7 yr loan for >100% of purchase price on a depreciating asset for nearly the same rate as a mortgage secured by real property. A six year car loan rate is LESS than the mortgage. That makes the 7yr loan a reasonable option. attractive. Itís more like a lease to me. The key is if it is used to buy more car than you can really afford or employment/income is not stable. E.G. it can be an enabler if you already have financial issues.
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:36 PM   #147
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Interest rates are out of whack wrt risk. It doesnít make sense that I can get a 7 yr loan for >100% of purchase price on a depreciating asset for nearly the same rate as a mortgage secured by real property. A six year car loan rate is LESS than the mortgage. That makes the 7yr loan a reasonable option. attractive. Itís more like a lease to me. The key is if it is used to buy more car than you can really afford or employment/income is not stable. E.G. it can be an enabler if you already have financial issues.
Todays economy is based on debt. Debt runs the current worlds economy based on the domestic and international USA dollar's current value.
Not being snarky but modern money mechanics is a good book.

Do you really believe 0% interest auto loans are no cost loans?
First, what else could those funds generate(opportunity cost)other than a depreciating asset requiring costly mainitence?

A bank will create money/value for itself anytime opportunity presents itself.
Many succumb to misleading marketing imho.
Best wishes.....
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:40 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Gumby View Post
IMHO, the best solution is to sell cars, simple cars, that get me from point A to point B, not a rolling computer/entertainment system that requires navigating 15 computer screens, each with several drop down menus and sub-menus.

Interesting fact: In 2017, the USS John S. McCain (DDG-56) ran into a Liberian tanker in the Strait of Malacca, resulting in the deaths of 10 sailors. A principal contributing factor was that no one on the bridge could figure out the computer that controlled the separation of the steering function (rudder) from the throttle function (engines), and they accordingly screwed up the transfer of throttle control from the helm to the lee-helm station. So the ship was unable to maintain its heading and crossed into the path of the tanker. When I was in the Navy, that transfer would have been made via a simple, two-position, manually operated switch.
Again, I'm in agreement.

But BestBigBusinesses(BBB) that be,.. now sell hand held computer devices called "phones"!

0r is that (BBB) BetterBusinessBeareau?

Best wishes...
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:54 PM   #149
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Todays economy is based on debt. Debt runs the current worlds economy based on the domestic and international USA dollar's current value.

Not being snarky but modern money mechanics is a good book.



Do you really believe 0% interest auto loans are no cost loans?

First, what else could those funds generate(opportunity cost)other than a depreciating asset requiring costly mainitence?



A bank will create money/value for itself anytime opportunity presents itself.

Many succumb to misleading marketing imho.

Best wishes.....


I have no idea why you posted this in reply to my comment. It doesnít rebut my contention that risk is mis-priced these days. I agree todayís economy is based on debt but Iíve never seen a bank offer a 0 % auto loan. That would be something !
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:34 AM   #150
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I have seen 0% auto loans from the captive finance subsidiaries of auto manufacturers, but that is a cross subsidy to spur sales. I don't think I've ever seen a normal bank offer a 0% auto loan either, but then I am not the most up to date on these things.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:58 AM   #151
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I have seen 0% auto loans from the captive finance subsidiaries of auto manufacturers, but that it a cross subsidy to spur sales. I don't think I've ever seen a normal bank offer a 0% auto loan either, but then I am not the most up to date on these things.
I agree. If you agree on a price and tell them you're getting your own financing, then tell them you want THAT price and zero-percent financing, you generally can't get it. They used to be a bit more honest: you could get either a rebate of $X or zero-percent financing but not both.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:17 AM   #152
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It's really nice not to have to repair all those engine parts that break down with an ICE car.

In my experience, it's usually been everything BUT the engine that would break down, in an ICE car. Although there are maintenance issues, such as spark plugs, belts, hoses, coolant changes, oil changes. Eventually you'll need exhaust work done, although with improvements in the technology, it's been ages since I've had to visit a muffler shop. I think the last time I had to have exhaust work done was on a 1985 Silverado...BUT that was in 2009! I had to have everything aft of the catalytic converter replaced...the pipe to the muffler, the muffler itself, and the dual exhaust pipes that came off of the single muffler, although I had those replaced by an extra large single pipe. Total bill was under $300. That truck had been in the family since new, and I knew its history...that was its only exhaust repair.

But, on something like a Tesla, you'd still have brakes, suspension, I'm sure the thing has some sort of a transmission and differential. Electronics galore. Sensors and such. Power window motors. Power door locks. Windshield wiper motors. Dash displays. Sound systems. Air conditioning. Heat. Defrost. The HVAC control unit. So, I wouldn't expect a Tesla to be totally trouble free for hundreds of thousands of miles. But, getting rid of the ICE engine does take a few things out of the equation.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:27 AM   #153
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The air cabin filter has to be changed every 2 years. So tires, wipers and air filters. It's really nice not to have to repair all those engine parts that break down with an ICE car.

Model 3 batteries are expected to last 300,000 to 500,000 miles. Replacements run around 5-7K. That's in todays prices. And car and driver wrote an article on Tesla developing a 1,000,000 mile battery. No discussion on the warranty.

Another poster mentioned the weight of his truck. My Model X weighs 5300lbs.

For those of you that like ICE cars or are unwilling to adapt, continue driving what you want to drive. California is up to 5.6% of new car purchases being EV. A state with 38 million people. I remember when online retail sales crossed the 1% threshold. Now years later the list of retail stores closing is long and mall traffic is nothing what it used to be.
That is Musk's claim...but that's assuming only a few modules go bad, not the entire battery pack.

A new pack is going to be 5 figures out of warranty...and don't forget the multiple drive unit replacements some Tesla owners have experienced, since those aren't cheap either.

I suspect most Teslas simply won't be worth fixing out of warranty, which is fine for those who don't mind just paying for a new one every decade or so.
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