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Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-22-2006, 10:07 PM   #1
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Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

Hi,
Thanks for the advice about the ROTH IRA, I'll start one soon. One question, with Vanguard, can you move money around to different funds without penalty? In my 401k, dear old Fido penalizes you if you attempt any market timing, other than a few shifts per year.

I went through the process to start a new IRA, and it let's me pick a fund in which to put it. Doesn't say anything about moving it around later.
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-22-2006, 10:15 PM   #2
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

You can move funds without concerns of penalties, except those noted on funds with regards to minimum fund holding times and so forth. Nothing hidden.
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-22-2006, 10:38 PM   #3
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

Thanks. Fidelity drives me nuts, I really dislike them. The funds s***, you get few choices and little education, and they get nasty if you move things around.
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-22-2006, 11:01 PM   #4
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

Oops, another question. How do I create an IRA for my wife and have it linked to my account? It seems to want me to create a whole different log in and such.
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-22-2006, 11:06 PM   #5
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by danm
Oops, another question. How do I create an IRA for my wife and have it linked to my account? It seems to want me to create a whole different log in and such.
I don't think you can. I have the same thing (IRA accounts with Vanguard in my name, and others in my wife's name) and although we can jointly share other accounts, the IRA accounts are truly "individual" accounts and you can't have them show up under the login of someone who is not that individual.

So my wife has her own login account, which we use whenever we need to do something that directly involves her IRA (like make a new contribution). Our joint accounts are accessible from both her and my logins, so that makes it easy.

You can keep your wife's IRA in your overall portfolio picture at Vanguard by adding it in manually as an "other account". Just specify that it is a retirement account and then specify the fund(s) and number of shares in your wife's IRA. From then on, although you can't perform any transactions under your account, for tracking/analysis purposes it's the same as having her account linked to yours.

All you need to do is update the fund shares under that "other account" whenever you make contributions to your wife's IRA.

Hope that helps.
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-22-2006, 11:23 PM   #6
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

Thanks Lusitan,
What about an Admiral account? So my wife's IRA won't get Admiral treatment? That stinks.
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-23-2006, 08:05 AM   #7
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

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Originally Posted by danm
Oops, another question. How do I create an IRA for my wife and have it linked to my account? It seems to want me to create a whole different log in and such.
My wife's accounts (including IRA) show up with my login. However, it requires a separate login for making transactions.
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-23-2006, 08:22 AM   #8
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

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My wife's accounts (including IRA) show up with my login. However, it requires a separate login for making transactions.
Really? I had actually called Vanguard to inquire about how I could get my wife's IRA to show up on my account, but they didn't have any options available for that. It was a couple of years ago though, so maybe they have some new functionality that would allow it ... my information might be outdated.

Best bet might just be to call Vanguard ... and if you find out any new info on this, let us know!
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-23-2006, 09:04 AM   #9
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

Vanguard has a thing called 'consolidated view' that lets you look at your vanguard acct and any other vanguard acct/bank acct/investment acct as long as you have the username/password and they support the external company. So far they've supported 100% of what i've hooked in.

Without using that, my wife see's her roth and our joint account, and I see my ira, roth and our joint acct. I see hers using the consolidated view.

If you or a family member has voyager or flagship status, that can be extended to (I believe) direct family members...maybe slightly extended family. But I dont think admiral fund status extends between people. Something I'll have to ask Weiland D Tarpley about I guess as my wife does hold a fund in her Roth that I hold in my IRA...
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-23-2006, 09:09 AM   #10
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

And the answer to that is NO! (Must not be capital one). To qualify for admiral status, the funds must be in a single acct, not in two accts even under the same person (say in your ira and your taxable).

Perhaps you would want to change your allocations so that she's holding something thats a minority holding of your overall portfolio while you increase the admiral holdings? For example, if you have 100k in TSM and 10k in emerging markets, and she has 10k in TSM, exchange your 10k in EM for 10k in TSM and have her exchange her TSM for EM. Then you've effectively given admiral status to her TSM without changing the cost of holding EM. Capish?
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-23-2006, 10:25 AM   #11
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

My brother in law has all accounts in his login and he can move money around without my sister logging in... do not know how, but I have helped him move money around...

AND, to the first poster... Vanguard WILL not allow you to market time. You can make a certain number of moves a year and then they will not let you move. You can always invest new money, but there is a limit on 'exchanges'...
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-23-2006, 10:30 AM   #12
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

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Vanguard has a thing called 'consolidated view' that lets you look at your vanguard acct and any other vanguard acct/bank acct/investment acct as long as you have the username/password and they support the external company.
Oh right - I remember reading about that new feature, but I never looked into it or thought to use it to link my wife's IRA account ... I will now ... thanks!
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-23-2006, 10:35 AM   #13
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

I have all my accounts on one login. Vanguard has a form that DW and I filled out and then you can see all accounts on one screen.
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-23-2006, 10:53 AM   #14
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

Yeah I just tried out the "linked accounts" option through Vanguard, and while I was successfully able to add my wife's accounts, I noticed another problem with that feature: your own accounts are already linked by default, but they're not setup correctly in terms of the retirement/non-retirement classifications etc.

I called Vanguard to see how you can update the properties of your own linked account (in the consolidated account view) and unfortunately you can't! So even though I can specify my wife's linked account as "retirement", I can't specify my own accounts as retirement (when viewing through the "linked account" view, which I need to use if I'm gonna view my wife's account through this method).

But ... the other option, as 73ss454 just mentioned, is to complete the "Agent Authorization Fom" which needs to be signed by both parties, notarized, and sent back to Vanguard. This will give you full access to your wife's account, including the ability to make transactions etc.

So that seems like the way to go ... just call Vanguard and request that form.
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-23-2006, 10:59 AM   #15
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by danm
Hi,
Thanks for the advice about the ROTH IRA, I'll start one soon. One question, with Vanguard, can you move money around to different funds without penalty? In my 401k, dear old Fido penalizes you if you attempt any market timing, other than a few shifts per year.
Vanguard frowns on market timing and moving money around as well. Vanguard has traditionally been more restrictive than Fidelity in my experience. You can do it, but why would you want to?

I think the Feb SmartMoney has an article which shows that fund turnover correlates inversely with performance: the higher the turnover, the lower the performance, the lower the turnover the higher the performance.

I think if you are doing more than a couple shifts a year, then you should consider if that is really helping you or not.
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-23-2006, 11:01 AM   #16
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusitan

But ... the other option, as 73ss454 just mentioned, is to complete the "Agent Authorization Fom" which needs to be signed by both parties, notarized, and sent back to Vanguard. This will give you full access to your wife's account, including the ability to make transactions etc.

So that seems like the way to go ... just call Vanguard and request that form.
Another way to get your form and for me easier, is to find the form on the Vangard website (under the forms button--duh), and print and then mail.
Saves some time and waiting in que to talk to CSR.

nwsteve
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-23-2006, 11:09 AM   #17
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

From the Vanguard web site:



Exchanges
All open Vanguard® funds accept exchange requests online, by telephone, or by mail. However, because excessive transactions can disrupt the management of a fund and increase the fund's costs for all shareholders, Vanguard places certain limits on exchanges and other transactions.

Frequent-trading policy
If you sell or exchange shares of a Vanguard fund, you will not be permitted to buy or exchange back into the same fund, in the same account, within 60 calendar days. However, this rule does not apply to:

Vanguard money market and short-term bond funds.
Vanguard VIPER® Shares.
Transaction requests submitted by mail to Vanguard by shareholders who hold their accounts directly with us. Please note that transaction requests submitted by fax or wire are subject to the policy.
Purchases of shares with fund dividends or capital gains distributions. For example, if you reinvest dividends or capital gains, these purchases will not be blocked even if shares in the fund were sold or exchanged within the previous 60 days.
Transactions made through Vanguard’s Automatic Investment Plan, Automatic Exchange Service, Direct Deposit Service, Automatic Withdrawal Plan, Required Minimum Distribution Service, and Vanguard Small Business Online®.
Sales of shares by Vanguard to pay fund or account fees.
Transfers and re-registrations of shares within the same fund.
Purchases of shares by asset transfer or direct rollover.
Conversions of shares from one share class to another in the same fund.
Sales of shares through checkwriting.
Section 529 college savings plans, certain approved institutional portfolios and asset allocation programs, as well as Vanguard funds that invest in other Vanguard funds.
For information about the Vanguard Variable Insurance Funds’ frequent-trading policy, see the funds’ prospectus. A separate policy applies to participants in employer-sponsored retirement plans administered by Vanguard.

Note that Vanguard reserves the right to revise or terminate the exchange privilege, limit the amount of any exchange, or reject an exchange, at any time, for any reason.

Additional information regarding exchanges
If you have a Tele-Account® PIN, you may also exchange shares via our automated Tele-Account service (800-662-6273).
You may waive the telephone privilege for any Vanguard account by sending us a letter of instruction signed by all registered shareholders indicating the Vanguard accounts affected. This waiver includes telephone, Tele-Account, and online exchanges.
Exchanges, like redemptions, may be taxable events.
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-23-2006, 12:39 PM   #18
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

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However, this rule does not apply to:

Vanguard money market and short-term bond funds.
..
Section 529 college savings plans, certain approved institutional portfolios and asset allocation programs, as well as Vanguard funds that invest in other Vanguard funds.
...Or if you have a lot of money with us and tell us you want to do it anyhow.
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH
Old 01-23-2006, 02:07 PM   #19
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Re: Shifting funds in a Vanguard ROTH

It seems that the Vangaurd brokerage account is a lot more flexible as far as trading or exchanges.
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