Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-30-2014, 05:59 PM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Gal View Post
Here is what happened. Medical director (we'll call him MD) sits down and looks at a little spreadsheet he created. He said he was offering to pay me what the person I am replacing makes but did his calculations completely wrong and offered 1/2 of what he should have.

I got to say I would never work for so little (that was fun!) and reminded him that I was bailing him out. I showed the math he did was completely bogus as he calculated a daily rate as if the other person was working 365 days a year. So he more than doubled the offer and said I can continue full benefits if I work at least one week a month. The work is about 4-8 hr/day plus call. Free food. It's cake. I think it will be a good transition, and it covers the remainder of DS's college expenses.

What bothers me is that either MD is stupid in his math calculations or he's stupid enough to think I'm stupid with math. And I don't know which it is! Kind of scary that someone who can calculate critical care drug doses in his sleep would try to do such a thing.

Will need to see the contract as well.




Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

It is nice having lots of leverage, isn't it?

Eh, management is the same everywhere. They want everything for cheap ad expect you to be grateful. Be happy that you jammed it to the man, see the contract along for as long as you wish, and then ride off into the sunset with your saddlebags full of cash.
__________________

__________________
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."



- Will Rogers
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-30-2014, 06:01 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,914
Now you know how it was that your former salary was so low... those guys can't do math or they are sneaky.

I am wondering if this is an equal pay issue, do you think your gender had anything to do with the offer?
__________________

__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 06:17 PM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,472
I wasn't full time. And reimbursements are very low in PA. Our payor mix includes a lot of Medicaid.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
EastWest Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 06:24 PM   #24
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Brat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,914
BUT do you think male physicians with similar background as yourself at your former employer were paid similarly

I would so love to have OFCCP do a review of that employer.
__________________
Duck bjorn.
Brat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 06:31 PM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brat View Post
Now you know how it was that your former salary was so low... those guys can't do math or they are sneaky.

I am wondering if this is an equal pay issue, do you think your gender had anything to do with the offer?

Have to laugh about that one. For the past 7 years the majority (sometimes 100%!) of our group is female. The guys haven't pulled their weight frankly and we let 2 out of 2 go in the past few years. but we now have 2 men in the group it seems to be working OK. One is the new MD. He seems nice enough on the surface but I have good reason not to trust him. The other is a brilliant physician who has a most gentle bedside manner.

Funny-our bonuses were overall very good with a female director. And all our salaries easily beat those offered by the nearby university, even the lower one.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
EastWest Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 06:36 PM   #26
Full time employment: Posting here.
CaliforniaMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Gal View Post
...
What bothers me is that either MD is stupid in his math calculations or he's stupid enough to think I'm stupid with math. And I don't know which it is! Kind of scary that someone who can calculate critical care drug doses in his sleep would try to do such a thing.

Will need to see the contract as well.
He was not stupid with math, as Medical Director he has undoubtedly been through this many times before, and many (most) times it works. Many people are bad with math or intimidated enough by authority to question their own arithmetic. I have had it happen with me before, in all kinds of contracts and contract extensions. Subtle things will be subtracted or added "by mistake," that somehow always work against you and favor them.

Be certain you read and understand and reread the contract line by line. It is surprising to me how many otherwise brilliant people just accept the verbal "this is what is in the contract" rather than actually read it. You will undoubtedly find some things you want changed in the contract, possibly through several revisions. Make sure it comes out right.

But always follow the politeness rule. Be polite and respectful in negotiations, especially when you find obvious stealth errors put in at your expense. At least in their eyes give them the benefit of the doubt. Always best to show a positive attitude and be friendly, while you are being firm. If they show you something you are not sure about, don't give in right there. Tell them you need a day to think about it. Good luck!

One of the things I like about retirement, no more of these damn contracts.
__________________
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.
CaliforniaMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 06:47 PM   #27
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,018
Congratulations on negotiating a good deal. I agree with Brat; studies show that female physicians do not generally get the salaries that males do, because we are too "nice". In this situation you have a lot of leverage and you used it. Good for you. I hope the job is as pleasant as you have described. If not, the remuneration will help.
__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 07:11 PM   #28
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Gal View Post
..... and said I can continue full benefits if I work at least one week a month. The work is about 4-8 hr/day plus call.
The can continue full benefits "if" would concern me somewhat, might not matter if you are able to easily meet the "week" requirement.

Losing benefits should not be an option. If you have a medical incident preventing putting in enough time, your family loses benefits?
I would nail down the exact definition of "week". 40hrs? 5 days? 4 hr day counts as a day? Being called in counts as a day? Etc.
Do you control the ability to work one week a month or do they? Maybe get the one week a month changed to 5 weeks in a six month period?

You could raise your compensation to cover the cost of benefits.
Or tell them the chance of losing benefits is a deal breaker.
__________________
springnr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 07:55 PM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Gal View Post
.......... but did his calculations completely wrong and offered 1/2 of what he should have................
If you believe this you are a really nice person. If you'd have fallen for it, he would have been yukking it up with his buddies.
__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 08:57 PM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,472
Quote:
Originally Posted by springnr View Post
The can continue full benefits "if" would concern me somewhat, might not matter if you are able to easily meet the "week" requirement.

Losing benefits should not be an option. If you have a medical incident preventing putting in enough time, your family loses benefits?
I would nail down the exact definition of "week". 40hrs? 5 days? 4 hr day counts as a day? Being called in counts as a day? Etc.
Do you control the ability to work one week a month or do they? Maybe get the one week a month changed to 5 weeks in a six month period?

You could raise your compensation to cover the cost of benefits.
Or tell them the chance of losing benefits is a deal breaker.
Actually in our company they pay benefits if you work .75 FTE or more. Not very generous, highly annoying actually. I'll be essentially working at most 15 shifts/mo plus super easy night call. That is considered full time for this gig. So I only need to work 1/2 time for full benefits. They actually need to fill a full time position but I don't have to take all the days they need me. I can't---I have too much planned! Right now it is to fill a big urgent hole in the schedule. But I don't want to work beyond December anyway--I so looked forward to watching it snow this year and just being able to think, "Look how pretty! What book shall I read today?"

No benefits = deal breaker. That's a given. Unless they pay enough to cover my whole family's health/dental/vision plans through COBRA.
__________________
EastWest Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 10:03 PM   #31
Moderator
rodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 8,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Gal View Post
What bothers me is that either MD is stupid in his math calculations or he's stupid enough to think I'm stupid with math. And I don't know which it is! Kind of scary that someone who can calculate critical care drug doses in his sleep would try to do such a thing.
It was intentional. I'd have a really hard time believing it wasn't.

My former employer had an extreme deadline - $1M/month penalties for not meeting the deadline. Folks were putting in extra time - but not enough so they came up with a bonus program called "Mission Beyond" (immediately dubbed "Mission Impossible" by employees.) Employees had to commit to working 50/55/60 hr weeks - bonuses increased with each 5 hour increment.

I did the math and the bonus math didn't make sense... it was paying 20% less per hour for the 60 hour week than the 50 hour commitment. The 55 hour commitment was 10% less on a per hour basis than the 50 hour week. So I asked my boss why *anyone* would sign up for the higher hours. He said my math was wrong... I showed it to him and he agreed I'd done the math right.... he referred me to HR because he had been told it was a flat rate of bonus. (At least that's what he said..... )

The HR rep's response was "What is it with engineers < in a really snarky tone >." She then admitted the program was designed that way... she was shocked I'd done the math. Mind you the target of this work push was engineers... We do math. This had to do with money. Engineers, in general, pay attention to compensation. I'm not sure why they ever thought people wouldn't notice this. Although, as far as I know - I'm the only one who figured it out and questioned it.
__________________
rodi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 10:16 PM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodi View Post
It was intentional.

I did the math and the bonus math didn't make sense...

The HR rep's response was "What is it with engineers < in a really snarky tone >." She then admitted the program was designed that way... she was shocked I'd done the math. Mind you the target of this work push was engineers... We do math. This had to do with money. Engineers, in general, pay attention to compensation. I'm not sure why they ever thought people wouldn't notice this. Although, as far as I know - I'm the only one who figured it out and questioned it.
ALWAYS do the math. My most successful salary negotiation was preceded by making a graph of my annual compensation for the decade or more that I had been with the organization, normalized for inflation, with the (low) correlation coefficient. Going in with facts, analysis and high but not unreasonable expectations gives a strong message that you are serious and not to be trifled with.
__________________

__________________
Meadbh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Long Term Asset Allocation for the Short Term? Dwhit FIRE and Money 10 08-23-2014 10:12 PM
Work dilema regarding Megacorp request to plan long term when I only have short term Al in Ohio FIRE and Money 32 07-05-2013 04:10 PM
Short term vs Long term Bonds bank5 Stock Picking and Market Strategy 17 03-24-2009 04:40 PM
Need Help with Credit Card Negotiation Hook travelover FIRE and Money 9 04-18-2008 11:39 AM
Short Term vs. Intermd Term Bonds TromboneAl FIRE and Money 35 07-21-2006 08:58 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:20 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.