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Old 08-20-2010, 03:54 PM   #21
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Sorry, I have signatures and avatars turned off.
I think you should add that disclaimer in your signature and avatar!

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Old 08-20-2010, 03:58 PM   #22
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
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I think you should add that disclaimer in your signature and avatar!

-ERD50
But I couldn't see it anyway!
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Old 08-20-2010, 09:51 PM   #23
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You might want to mention that you have a conflict in interest in your "opinion".
Would you be happier if other members didn't post in threads related to their occupation?
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Old 08-21-2010, 08:16 AM   #24
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Would you be happier if other members didn't post in threads related to their occupation?
I'm not unhappy. I do have a hair trigger for anyone taking financial advantage of others. I did a mea culpa a few lines back. Do you need further groveling?
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Old 08-21-2010, 08:37 AM   #25
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In the old days there were participating mutual whole life insurance, which in the long term is not a bad deal (30 years) after 30 years the dividends would pay the premium and at that point the premium flows right to cash value. But of course 30 years is a long time and the participating policy is hard to find. (The dividends buy additional insurance, which in turn pays dividends on its cash value) So today the total cash value grows by 2000 a year on a 20k face value policy. But then that was then and you probably can't get that kind of deal today.
Policies like this still exist. I'm holding a Knights of Columbus Policy whole life policy which I paid premiums on for about 22 years. This year I changed the policy to apply the dividend towards the premium vs buying additional coverage. (Over 22 years the coverage increased by over 40% with no increase in premium) I'm not real happy with the insurance but decided to hold it vs cashing in a the present time, makes DW a little happier knowing that this policy will be in force long after our term policies expire. BTW, this policy was sold as a ten year pay policy, the knights settled a class action lawsuit over misleading representations by their sales force regarding their whole life policies a few years back, of course, policy holders really got nothing as a result. During the policy review with the new insurance rep, I discovered for the first time that my cash value was less than what I've paid in premiums over the years. I was surprised because every year I receive an annual statement that seemed to indicate that dividend rate was very healthy. But what I didn't realize was that additional paid up insurance cost me a large portion of my dividends and is not convertible to cash if the policy is canceled. At least through organizations like the Knights you can still buy these types of policies, I would not if I had it to do all over again.
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Old 08-21-2010, 09:21 AM   #26
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I was also sold my whole life policy with a guarantee 10 pay. I was not a happy camper when my bill for 7K showed up on the 11th year. Turns out my whole life policy is to be paid till the age of 99. When I was sold the policy I saved the document the agent/thief had given me to prove I was only to pay for 10 years. I entered into a class action and in the end the Judge awarded me 31K because I had the proof. Seems this was a standard practice and that's why there were so many class actions.

I still hold this policy as the dividends pay a large portion of the 7K a year premium. But the Mass Mutual is still getting the 7K a year one way or the other. I've had this policy for 23 years now and since I'll be 62 next year I may cash it in to add to income. The cash value is 169K and goes up about 6 or 7K a year at this point.

When I spoke with Mass Mutual after the settlement I told them I wanted to speak directly with them and not have to go through an agent. They reassigned my policy to another agent and he called me promptly to help/rip me off. He said I was right about the 10 year payout and then promptly tried to talk me into selling the policy and buy an Annuity. Perfect!
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Old 08-21-2010, 10:18 AM   #27
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I was also sold my whole life policy with a guarantee 10 pay. I was not a happy camper when my bill for 7K showed up on the 11th year. Turns out my whole life policy is to be paid till the age of 99. When I was sold the policy I saved the document the agent/thief had given me to prove I was only to pay for 10 years. I entered into a class action and in the end the Judge awarded me 31K because I had the proof. Seems this was a standard practice and that's why there were so many class actions.

I still hold this policy as the dividends pay a large portion of the 7K a year premium. But the Mass Mutual is still getting the 7K a year one way or the other. I've had this policy for 23 years now and since I'll be 62 next year I may cash it in to add to income. The cash value is 169K and goes up about 6 or 7K a year at this point.

When I spoke with Mass Mutual after the settlement I told them I wanted to speak directly with them and not have to go through an agent. They reassigned my policy to another agent and he called me promptly to help/rip me off. He said I was right about the 10 year payout and then promptly tried to talk me into selling the policy and buy an Annuity. Perfect!
Ah yes, the old "vanishing premium" scam of the 80's....agents would take out the "guaranteed" pages of the illustration and only show the projections based on dividends that were never going to happen. It's illegal to tell someone they won't have to pay a premium after "X" amount of years unless it is guaranteed by the contract. As an example, Guardian has a 10-pay product that you are guaranteed to have paid up after 10 years. Their life-pay product would take ~25-30 years of the current-rate dividend to require no further premiums (assuming the dividends kept going), but you can't just tell someone "you'll only have to pay for this for 25 years" since the dividend scale can change at any time.
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Old 08-21-2010, 10:21 AM   #28
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But what I didn't realize was that additional paid up insurance cost me a large portion of my dividends and is not convertible to cash if the policy is canceled.
Paid-up additional insurance has it's own separate cash value. You should be able to cash them in at any time if you want to...
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Old 08-21-2010, 10:32 AM   #29
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Paid-up additional insurance has it's own separate cash value. You should be able to cash them in at any time if you want to...
Thanks, my rep didn't share that with me. Next time I have to talk to one, I'll be sure to ask about it.
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Old 08-21-2010, 12:07 PM   #30
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Funny, I was also told my dividend would buy paid up additional ins.. I told them I don't want any extra ins and to apply my dividend to my payment.

We grow old too fast and smart too late.
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