Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-11-2012, 12:05 PM   #61
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Money, Honey.

Ha
Attached Images
File Type: jpg maria_bartiromo_cnbc.jpg (21.8 KB, 7 views)
__________________

__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-11-2012, 12:16 PM   #62
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFWR View Post
Love that song, that woman, and that whole CD. I believe that was written after Joey was already sick. Good pic of The Honey as Matron.

My Money, Honey reference is this one:

It's been one of my lifelong soundtracks.

Ha
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 05:40 PM   #63
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW_M5 View Post
This was and is undoubtedly true today for folks that are 55+, at least middle management types, but its disheartening to hear that this is also the case for folks in their 40s who should have many productive years ahead of them.
It isn't true in tech. At microsoft there are plenty of people in their 50s that get hired as contract developers making $80/hr or so. I personally know about 5 devs and testers who left the company, did a few things, then came back several years later on contract...one guy is 59!

This is why I think our plan of doing odd year contract work across the new year (to generate Roth contributions for each year while having 18 months off) is going to work out. It isn't full retirement, but will allow our nest egg to grow from age 45 to 55. You can do a lot in 18 months of not working that will make it seem like you are retired.
__________________
Fermion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 10:00 AM   #64
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
DFW_M5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermion View Post
It isn't true in tech. At microsoft there are plenty of people in their 50s that get hired as contract developers making $80/hr or so. I personally know about 5 devs and testers who left the company, did a few things, then came back several years later on contract...one guy is 59!
While there are always some areas that may be exceptions, getting a contract position isn't the same thing as finding an equivalent full time employee position once your beyond 55, especially if you got layed off. And I know several IT folks that have suffered that fait and struggeled or failed to get anything close to what they had previously.
__________________
DFW_M5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 10:59 AM   #65
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by DFW_M5 View Post
While there are always some areas that may be exceptions, getting a contract position isn't the same thing as finding an equivalent full time employee position once your beyond 55, especially if you got layed off. And I know several IT folks that have suffered that fait and struggeled or failed to get anything close to what they had previously.
But if you can find something, even a temp gig, and make some decent money at it, you don't need to replicate your old salary. Say you used to make $150k/yr in IT or whatever. You only have $60k in expenses. Now you find a temp gig that only lasts 6 months, but may have extensions, and pays a similar hourly rate plus a little to compensate you for your overhead expenses. Maybe you clear $75k for 6 months of work, or a little more. That is 1.25 years of your living expenses.

You could do exactly this for six months, then take 9 months off, six months on, 9 months off. Forever. All the while you aren't touching your investment portfolio.

In my professional life, I spend many millions a year on professional contractors and consultants, many of which are IT-y businessy type people. For those type people the absolute lowest rate I pay to an independent consultant is $120/hr. The typical rate is $150-175/hr with some getting much more. And this isn't typically small numbers of hours. 500 hrs up to full time (2000 hrs) is typical. It is in a very niche market, but definitely lucrative if you have the appropriate skills. The labor market in this niche is filled with individuals that quit their W-2 jobs (paying $100-300k/yr) and hung their own shingles. Most are in there 40's and 50's, maybe some young 60's.
__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 02:13 PM   #66
Full time employment: Posting here.
cardude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO

In my professional life, I spend many millions a year on professional contractors and consultants, many of which are IT-y businessy type people. For those type people the absolute lowest rate I pay to an independent consultant is $120/hr. The typical rate is $150-175/hr with some getting much more. And this isn't typically small numbers of hours. 500 hrs up to full time (2000 hrs) is typical. It is in a very niche market, but definitely lucrative if you have the appropriate skills. The labor market in this niche is filled with individuals that quit their W-2 jobs (paying $100-300k/yr) and hung their own shingles. Most are in there 40's and 50's, maybe some young 60's.
fuego

Where/how does one acquire the skills for this type of career? Reason I ask is because I have a son who is a HS sophomore, and I wanted him to major in accounting and minor in spanish in college, but he thinks accounting will be boring. I want him to graduate with a universally marketable skill-- I have a BA in finance but wish I would have gotten an accounting degree instead after being in business for 20 plus years.

He is good but not great in math (all As in advanced classes but has to work at it), and enjoys his Spanish class. Has As in all his other subjects as well. English is his least favorite. I've never thought about any IT related careers because I just don't know that much about it. I want him to be able make enough money and combine LBYM so he can become FI at a young age. Maybe not ER, but FI certainly. He is interested in working out of the country also, using his Spanish minor. Would an IT career be a possible fit?
__________________
ER'ed from the new car business Feb 2008. I'm 47, she's 45. Two boys ages 15 and 13. DW is SAHM. I've got a part-time used car lot I w*ork at 3 hours a day that keeps me in beer money.....
cardude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 02:22 PM   #67
Confused about dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post
It is in a very niche market, but definitely lucrative if you have the appropriate skills. The labor market in this niche is filled with individuals that quit their W-2 jobs (paying $100-300k/yr) and hung their own shingles. Most are in there 40's and 50's, maybe some young 60's.
What niche is that?

I'm still in the "accumulation stage", but looking to semi-retirement in a few years. My definition of semi-retirement is to be technically FI (i.e. don't need a for-pay job to make ends meet), but still working just enough to cover expenses. The idea is to find a balance between always worrying is my nest egg big enough and the frustration of working too much to enjoy my family. That way my nest egg can continue to grow---maybe it will grow big enough that I can completely dismiss the "do I have enough" worry. Or maybe I'll find part-time/consulting work will be enjoyable enough that I virtually stop thinking about my nest egg. Either way, I'll figure it out when I get there.

But in the meantime, I do think about this future part-time/consulting gig. It's a vague and nebulous idea right now, but I'm interested in learning about what kind of opportunities are out there.
__________________
Desire2Retire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 04:52 PM   #68
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha
Money, Honey. As I said above, people do what they want and that is cool. It can be scary when someone realizes that the river of no return has been crossed forever.

Ha
I certainly agree with your observations. Many people reflect and worry about the proper withdrawal rate, but rarely reflect on the possible destruction of working/career "capital" that is blown to near zero in some careers in ER. This is especially important for the very early retirees. Although, I feel fairly comfortable with the stability of my pension, I was totally not 100% at ease due to my age at retirement (45). I have continued working part time in my career field because quite frankly it is better pay than what I would get out on my own. I have taken advantage of my network of friends who are still working, but are winding down fast too. Although I complain a little about doing it, it really is worth the time. I have doubled my nest egg in the past 3 years and have really increased my since of security. I hope by age 50, though I have become convinced that I don't need to save for the worse case scenario anymore.
__________________
Mulligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 06:09 PM   #69
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post
But if you can find something, even a temp gig, and make some decent money at it, you don't need to replicate your old salary. Say you used to make $150k/yr in IT or whatever. You only have $60k in expenses. Now you find a temp gig that only lasts 6 months, but may have extensions, and pays a similar hourly rate plus a little to compensate you for your overhead expenses. Maybe you clear $75k for 6 months of work, or a little more. That is 1.25 years of your living expenses.

You could do exactly this for six months, then take 9 months off, six months on, 9 months off. Forever. All the while you aren't touching your investment portfolio.
Now we are cooking with gas! This is our plan in a nutshell (although as mentioned, going to try to take off 12 to 18 months at a stretch, but have at least enough earned income every year for Roth contributions (and savers credit!...50% annual return guaranteed!)
__________________
Fermion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 10:14 PM   #70
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude View Post
fuego

Where/how does one acquire the skills for this type of career? Reason I ask is because I have a son who is a HS sophomore, and I wanted him to major in accounting and minor in spanish in college, but he thinks accounting will be boring. I want him to graduate with a universally marketable skill-- I have a BA in finance but wish I would have gotten an accounting degree instead after being in business for 20 plus years.

He is good but not great in math (all As in advanced classes but has to work at it), and enjoys his Spanish class. Has As in all his other subjects as well. English is his least favorite. I've never thought about any IT related careers because I just don't know that much about it. I want him to be able make enough money and combine LBYM so he can become FI at a young age. Maybe not ER, but FI certainly. He is interested in working out of the country also, using his Spanish minor. Would an IT career be a possible fit?
I don't want to disclose what industry because it wouldn't take much sleuthing to figure out who I am and where I work and live given the small size of the industry.

But I imagine there are ample other industries out there. It isn't anything glamorous. Just a particular line of business where things need to be done correctly and hardware and software and people intersect. I imagine there are lots of niches out there just like mine. Big companies like IBM have consulting arms that provide and configure hardware and software and wrap it up with business acumen (but we don't deal with IBM as I'm pretty sure they aren't active in our niche).

I don't really have any good advice to get into fields like these. Go to college, network and figure out what people do and what industries are like. What are careers like in different fields? Do the highly paid have horrible work lives?
__________________
Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (5, 11, and 12).
FUEGO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 06:07 PM   #71
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 41
I retired at 48 w/pension & health care (dumb luck, don't hate me) . Did volunteer work. Got involved in politics and made some meaningful changes in our town. I even got a bull sh... part time job. The only thing my husband & I don't bicker about is money.. I am looking for a meaningful part time job to fill a huge missing void.
__________________
sundance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 07:55 PM   #72
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermion View Post
If you are alive and run out of money, there are options.
Indeed. I'm completely available as a male prostitute, 24x7. Ehhh...just women though, and my minimum price is a buck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIREd View Post
Over the last couple of weeks, several very early retirees on this board have expressed regrets over their decision to quit the rat race in their 30s or 40s.

This is quite alarming for me (retired at 36) so it may be wise to question your decision.
Yep, I was burned out and just planned to take a year or so off from work. Not having to get up early and be somewhere every day was quite alluring. Too young for me to stop working, and I'll probably go back to work in a couple of years when my 5 geriatric pets go to kitty and puppy heaven and my son is older. I do miss the camaraderie and work friends and that aspect of a social life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
But this really has nothing to do with it. Retiring will not extend life, or likely, cut it short. If you die, you die. Is your current way of going about living so bad that it is not considered life? Is emptying septic hoses while touring around the country a totally different realm of existence from going to the office, having colleagues, having lunch with work friends?

Judging from my own life, I was burned out. But I believe changes within the world of work might have worked as well or better than quitting- and I have had a pretty successful retirement of~25 years. It certainly would have been financially better and with greater scope for changing course.

My idea is do whatever you will, whoever you are, however much money you have and whatever your responsibilities are. That is what people will almost always do.

But the board is biased. How often has someone said, "this is an early retirement board after all". To me, this is a warning- don't go to a surgeon if you want advice to wait, and don't go to an early retirement board if you want advice regarding the desirability of retiring early. Most of us have crossed that bridge, and time has burned it behind us. Commonly, divorced people recommend divorce, people with kids recommend having kids, religious people recommend church-I think we all know about this. I just had the funny experience of googling "León, Nicaragua". A piece by Catherine or Kathleen Peddicord popped up. She definitely recommended retiring to León. Cheap, very safe, blah, blah. The very next article was from an Australian consular travel advisory "Exercise a High Degree of Caution".

Now let me see, who is likely to be more biased, a woman who works for a newsletter with many RE affiliates in lots of third world places, or an agency of the Australian government?
You're throwing off a lot of gold in this thread!
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2012, 12:14 AM   #73
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 41
What I was trying to say was "its not always about money".
__________________
sundance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 04:21 PM   #74
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Westchester County
Posts: 30
I am also 42 and just retired last month. I had a high-paying job for the past 2.5 years where I had 90% of my 280k annual paycheck automatically deposited into my brokerage account every month, while ALSO having 5k per month automatically deposited FROM my brokerage account into my checking account. I did this as basically a "test" of retirement to see if I could live off the withdrawal rate, etc,. and it worked very well so gave me a lot of confidence that full retirement would be fine. The OP has already left work, but for others who are at the same age and considering pulling the trigger, you may want to try a test first and see how it feels.

My assets are about 2.3M in stocks and 1.1M in real estate with no debt. My partner also has a full pension for the rest of his life.

I would also echo what someone said about not retiring FROM work, but retiring TO something else. I have always been a creative writer, and want to spend all my time writing, submitting, teaching part-time and doing other writing-related things. That gives me a sense of purpose and ambition that many early retirees may not have. I suggest you find your passion and cultivate it before or immediately after retiring.

I have always wondered how these rich CEO's can work into their 80's, and the best response I ever heard to that question was "lack of imagination." I love that. Imagine your dream life and then live it.
__________________
midlifeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 05:34 PM   #75
Full time employment: Posting here.
dtbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Madison
Posts: 752
Quote:
Originally Posted by midlifeguy View Post
I am also 42 and just retired last month. I had a high-paying job for the past 2.5 years where I had 90% of my 280k annual paycheck automatically deposited into my brokerage account every month, while ALSO having 5k per month automatically deposited FROM my brokerage account into my checking account. I did this as basically a "test" of retirement to see if I could live off the withdrawal rate, etc,. and it worked very well so gave me a lot of confidence that full retirement would be fine. The OP has already left work, but for others who are at the same age and considering pulling the trigger, you may want to try a test first and see how it feels.

My assets are about 2.3M in stocks and 1.1M in real estate with no debt. My partner also has a full pension for the rest of his life.

I would also echo what someone said about not retiring FROM work, but retiring TO something else. I have always been a creative writer, and want to spend all my time writing, submitting, teaching part-time and doing other writing-related things. That gives me a sense of purpose and ambition that many early retirees may not have. I suggest you find your passion and cultivate it before or immediately after retiring.

I have always wondered how these rich CEO's can work into their 80's, and the best response I ever heard to that question was "lack of imagination." I love that. Imagine your dream life and then live it.
I think you are significantly in better financial shape than the OP (by 33% or so) and that is a pretty nice cushion. Don't want to be a doom and gloom guy but can you count on any income from your partner if you 2 split? i.e. any kind of contract? Otherwise, I wouldn't really count on that income. But if the 3.4 million is all yours, I think you are in pretty great shape. Sounds like you have done some good testing and have lots to keep you busy. Glad you went for it.
__________________
Wild Bill shoulda taken more out of his IRA when he could have. . . .
dtbach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 08:21 AM   #76
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 367
This has certainly been an interesting thread to follow, being that I am also 42 and trying to plan an ER in the next few years. I've been waiting for scrabbler to kick in, as he retired at an early age as well.
Anyway, my (current) plan is more 'bucket' oriented as scrabbler's is, and it might be useful for the OP to look at it more like this. If I take out 200k (ish) for a paid for house, he has close to even money in taxable and retirement accounts of about $1M each. My thinking is that I should never exceed 4% withdrawal from my taxable, never exceed 3% from my overall port (tax and non/deferred), and never touch retirement accounts before 60 (ok, 59.5). If the OP takes this approach, it will limit his withdrawals to about $40k (minus taxes, tho likely negligible due to post tax and div/int income). If he and/or DW can add to this thru work, or reduce expenses to this in times of no work, then I would say they are good to go. The advantage here is that when you turn 60, you get a nice safety net kicking in that you can decide what to do with then (part SPIA, take div/int only, 4% draw, etc). Plus, you have SS coming in a few years. Yeah, I know, you don't want to count it, but count "something". Take 50% off what you are supposed to get and use that, the chances you will get nothing seem very unlikely. Then medicare will kick in and help, etc.
I like this approach, b/c if I screw everything up, I still have the money that was earmarked for retirement there. So if I retire early and everything goes to hell, I could pick up a part time job to bridge the difference from my SWR. I am also considering working longer so I can set my withdrawal at just div/int income until age 59.5

So I guess, if I were him, I'd try to see if I could set a liveable spending rate at about 40k/year, if there is no income from DW or him. If this is possible, I think I'd be cool with staying retired.

DISCLAIMER: I ain't retired yet, and the closer I get, the further away the line moves....
__________________
When you walk in the shadow of insanity, the presence of another mind that thinks and acts as yours does is something close to a blessed event. -Robert Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
panhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 08:26 AM   #77
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 367
One more comment: Ha, it has been enlightening to read your take on this whole thing. You are right to point out the obvious biases, and your addition of personal experience and insight has been enlightening. Potential ERs of my age need to take a hard look at some of what your experience dictates and factor it in as appropriate. You have "been there and done that" and even though no experience will be the same, this is very valuable information.
__________________
When you walk in the shadow of insanity, the presence of another mind that thinks and acts as yours does is something close to a blessed event. -Robert Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
panhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 08:49 AM   #78
Full time employment: Posting here.
Tyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Upstate
Posts: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by midlifeguy View Post
I have always wondered how these rich CEO's can work into their 80's, and the best response I ever heard to that question was "lack of imagination." I love that. Imagine your dream life and then live it.
Does that mean you think they aren't, or that they are?

(I'd like to think I have the imagination to think of many reasons certain people work -- not w*rk -- late into life, and some have a lot to do with having imagination.)

Tyro
__________________
Tyro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 09:19 AM   #79
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,104
Really interesting thread. It underscores for me that everyone is different. Given unlimited funds/security I would not have retired pre late 50's (did recently, now 61) perhaps for lack of imagination but realistically because I actually enjoyed what I did and thought it was a reasonably important contribution to the world. A lot of the discussions here seem to surround an intense desire to not work and get out of the race ASAP, and that's what I guess you'd expect from an ER board. Some seem motivated by a desire to pursue other goals, others just want out. I recall raising my kids encouraging them to seek careers that they actually might enjoy, as they'd be doing it a long time. I wouldn't trade my employment for 2x or 3x if I would not have enjoyed it even if it would have allowed to not do it a lot sooner than what I was doing.

All that said, circumstances took the enjoyment out of what I was doing, I made a change, and then did not like that at ALL so now am pretty much retired and very FI, SWR about 2% and no scrimping. I have NO desire to go back to anything I've done before, but cannot say I'm thoroughly satisfied with what I'm doing now as there are family responsibilities restricting DW and me. So I come to this board to gain insight. It seems to me that it all boils down to how bad do you want out, and what level of risk are you willing to accept. Anyway, I enjoy coming here to see the wide range of opinions and states of mind that drive us all!
__________________
H2ODude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 10:28 AM   #80
Full time employment: Posting here.
Tyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Upstate
Posts: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2ODude View Post
I recall raising my kids encouraging them to seek careers that they actually might enjoy, as they'd be doing it a long time. ....

All that said, circumstances took the enjoyment out of what I was doing,
All too often, that's the story. Some DO love what they're doing for many years. Then comes a rough spot, and they figure it's worth toughing it out for the potential gain/improvement. You don't quit just because of a rough spot, right? By the time they figure out things aren't going to change, it's too late; they're locked into homes, communities, school districts, pension points, benefits.... LIFE, and there's more to lose than there is to gain by making a change and/or starting over. ONE solution is to figure out how to RE, FI, and then find the joy in life again.

...and then sometimes stuff happens,and you find ER foisted upon you.
__________________

__________________
Tyro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:41 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.