Should I make my wishes known or just lay low?

[38Chevy454]

Having seen the cuts happen to both voluntary and involuntary separation, I will say it is best for all involved to have someone go out the door smiling and happy vs being kicked out and very unhappy. I believe most companies will try to do the voluntary option first, it is better for everyone involved.

I would tell your boss, or maybe two levels above boss, that you would be interested if it could save a younger person. That younger person may have a lot more financial obligations. It would be significant stress if they were let go in an involuntary separation. You already have the financial means to do it, especially with a little bit of severance help.

Your age is close to when you were planning, so use this to your advantage and give hint you want to keep morale up for the group and would go out graciously, instead of someone else that wants to stay working. Nothing kills morale more than everyone wondering when the ax will fall, and who will get it.

[brett]

If you do not 'absolutely trust' you boss then do nothing. Just wait them out, keep your eyes open, and your ears close to the ground.

As others have said, do not trust HR. They are NOT your friend in this situation.

Good luck.

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 38Chevy454 Having seen the cuts happen to both voluntary and involuntary separation, I will say it is best for all involved to have someone go out the door smiling and happy vs being kicked out and very unhappy. I believe most companies will try to do the voluntary option first, it is better for everyone involved. I would tell your boss, or maybe two levels above boss, that you would be interested if it could save a younger person. That younger person may have a lot more financial obligations. It would be significant stress if they were let go in an involuntary separation. You already have the financial means to do it, especially with a little bit of severance help. Your age is close to when you were planning, so use this to your advantage and give hint you want to keep morale up for the group and would go out graciously, instead of someone else that wants to stay working. Nothing kills morale more than everyone wondering when the ax will fall, and who will get it.

You are in management, right?

[Which Roger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EllisWyatt As pb4uski said, a lot depend on your relationship with your management. In one scenario, if you telegraph your intentions to leave, there is no reason for the company to provide additional financial incentive to encourage you to do what you were already intending to do.

In my former MegaCorp, the way things worked was that the manager 2 levels above me (my boss's boss) would submit a list of names to HR a couple weeks before the layoff. So HR was not aware of an individual's intentions unless/until that person made the list.

My company had a couple rounds of layoffs last year. Since I was planning on leaving anyway, it was a no brainer for me to volunteer to get laid off. As it turned out, the work my group was doing was in demand, and the department head didn't want to lose any of his budget/headcount, so my efforts were for naught. After trying twice, I decided to leave on my own terms without a severance package.

When I volunteered to be laid off, I did not tell my boss that I was planning on leaving regardless. As others have indicated in this thread, I thought I would lose all my leverage if I said "If you don't pay me to quit, I'm going to quit anyway". However, when I finally told my boss that I was leaving, he mentioned that since in MegaCorps, the source of the severance money is far removed from the people who are deciding who to lay off, I may have actually had more leverage if I indicated my true intentions. But who knew?

[Live And Learn]

I did exactly this last year. I wanted to go, I knew I was FI and I volunteered to be severed from MegaCorp. My bosses, who I knew and mostly trusted, agreed. I agreed to wait for my official severance notification until they found a replacement. A few people were interviewed but after four months they still hadn't found a replacement. This gave me time to second guess my decision and I chickened out !!!! They took me back with open arms. No repercussions whatsoever.

I would let them know that you wouldn't be adverse to a RIF. Tell them you love your job, you love the company, but sometimes you wonder if trying something different might be fun and that this would give you the opportunity to explore new horizons (they don't need to know that you would simply fully retire).

[pb4uski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayvt ....Most managers HATE to lay off people. It's a very gut-wrenching emotional experience to sit across the table from somebody and tell them they are fired and put up with their shock and tears. They much prefer to let somebody go that is happy to be laid off.

I agree on the first part but I wouldn't characterize someone being laid off as being fired. To me, there is a world of difference.

Firings were not particularly traumatic in my experience as the employee usually brought it on themselves and usually have had verbal and written warnings and counseling to change their behaviors. Lay offs are much more difficult as the people involved usually haven't done much to "deserve" it other than being a weaker link than employees who are being retained.

[NanoSour]

I wouldn't give any information regarding your future. It's none of their business and they hold enough of the cards as it is. Why increase their hand?

[38Chevy454]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed_The_Gypsy You are in management, right?

I am actually not in mgmt. I am a fairly high level engineer, but do not have people that report to me. Maybe I seemed too advisory in my original post.

I have just been working enough to see the effects of layoffs on myself and coworkers. Involuntary layoffs do not have any benefits for either side

BTW, I've been laid off before involuntarily. It sucks. Mine was especially worse when the megacorp made up poor performance review right before the layoff to protect the company for any lawsuit action. VERY unethical behavior, and was all clear when I got laid off. Up until that point I could not understand why the poor review when previous years were all above average rating. I could not have been more vindicated when the mgr that gave me the review was laid off himself in a subsequent round. It was all I could do to not rub it in his face.

But you know what? I had confidence that I would end up better in the end, it was just the unsettling period of a few months figuring out what the new job would be.

[growing_older]

Quote:

megacorp made up poor performance review right before the layoff to protect the company for any lawsuit action. VERY unethical behavior, and was all clear when I got laid off. Up until that point I could not understand why the poor review when previous years were all above average rating. I could not have been more vindicated when the mgr that gave me the review was laid off himself in a subsequent round.

As management I can confirm that we are sometimes asked to play our part in this manufacturing poor reviews in order to have a paper trail to justify layoff choices that are going to happen regardless. I can also confirm that managers who do not play along are vulnerable to being laid off themselves and have had exactly that happen to me, actually fired days before a layoff because I wouldn't fake reviews. I completely agree with you that this is unethical behavior and should be curtailed or outlawed.

[Turn_the_Page]

I wouldn't tell anyone until you're ready to go. At my megacorp, I can tell you of key individuals that had the conversation and then they were let go almost immediately. Part of me would like to tell my boss that I'm gone this year, as I would like to fully train my replacement. However, while I have a good relationship with him, I do not trust the company or HR. So, I'll wait until I know I can't lose anything regardless of what happens when I have the talk (meaning ready for retirement and benefits are there).

I really wish we all worked for companies where you could do what you suggest and have it turn out OK. To spare a younger person's job and get you a bit of a bonus, what a win-win.

[sheldon cornped]

I concur with your advice completely. Unless one has perfect circumstances under which there absolutely is no risk, the standard rule should probably be sit tight. And your sentiment on sparing your fellow workers if possible is truly how I feel. I like all of my direct reports and unfortunately I don't think any of them can afford to be without a job even though most are in their mid-40's to mid-50's. And I do believe if choices have to be made, they would eliminate my position (mgt) instead of the worker bees. I have much to be grateful for in that most of what I have today came from my services to the Co. and we have all been treated pretty well. I am ready to start on that defined benefit pension any day now and will be extra vigilant for signs that the time is right.

[sheldon cornped]

Our official Severance Policy clearly states that an employee is entitled to severance for poor performance. You don't get it if involved in fraud, embezzlement etc... So theoretically someone could purposely lay down like a jackass, get a dishonorable discharge but still get a nice severance. This is not my option of choice, of course.