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Old 10-16-2009, 07:02 PM   #41
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It seems to me that you need a margin of error. If you try to get it just right and spend every nickel before you die, you risk getting it wrong, and run out of money while still embarrassingly healthy. Are you prepared to commit suicide under those circumstances?
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:31 PM   #42
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It seems to me that you need a margin of error.
I think what we're talking about is having too much of a margin of error. Many of us have LBYM so ingrained that we likely will not experience things, own things, help people, etc., when we'll very likely go to our graves with huge residual amounts in our coffers.

In recent threads, we've heard from foks who are either SIRE or FIRE (big enough pensions and big enough portfolios to live nicely off either), folks with cushions for their cushions, folks still acccumulating from pension and SS income during retirement and likely never to experience the "withdrawal phase" and so on and so forth.

I wouldn't worry too much about folks on this board not allowing for a "margin of error."
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:19 PM   #43
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I think youbet is correct about the LBYM inclination of the typical forum member.

However, another "market correction" like the one we just experienced would certainly reduce that extra "margin of error" and "cushion of cushions".

But then, the compensation is that the reverse wealth effect would also take away any desirous thought of "spanking new stuff".

Argghhh... Why am I talking of a market correction? Noooo, not right after another "Whee" post.



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Old 10-16-2009, 09:20 PM   #44
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It depends how tight youve cut it...

My plan is to have ever increasing wealth and income when I retire....

But if youve cut it fine I would be aiming to have 10-15% of your money left if you live 15% longer then mode age of death (most common) which I think from memory is generally about 3 years above the average age of death in most western countries. Take into account your relative health and family history......especially for Cardiac disease or cancer... You are the best judge of this.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:13 PM   #45
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DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT spend every nickel before you die. You'll need one nickel to be placed in your lips at death to pay Charon to ferry you across the Styx. It would be a huge mistake to not have that nickel!


Charon (mythology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Edit: To avoid any confusion, my sig line refers to the attractive lady in the blue kayak paddling on the Kankakee River in northern Illinois. Charon is the guy in the red loin cloth paddling on the Styx.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:37 PM   #46
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I dunno!

What was the denomination of the Greek coin to be paid? It is likely to be worth much more than a US nickel now. I am not even sure if a Susan B Anthony would cover the fare even. Why chance it? A two-euro coin is better. Heck, a Krugerrand would get you the boat all to yourself, and Charon may even sing to entertain like a Venice gondolier.


PS. Your clarification about the avatar vs. the painting really helps. For a second there, I was really wonderin'.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:47 PM   #47
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I dunno!

What was the denomination of the Greek coin to be paid?
Quote:
A coin to pay Charon for passage, usually an obolus or danake, was sometimes placed in or on the mouth of a dead person.[
But, ya know, there is a recession goin' on. No obolus or danake? A nickel just might do! I sure wouldn't spend my last one pre-croaking and risk spending 100 yrs wandering the banks of the Styx, that's for sure!
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:56 PM   #48
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What was the denomination of the Greek coin to be paid? It is likely to be worth much more than a US nickel now. I am not even sure if a Susan B Anthony would cover the fare even. Why chance it? A two-euro coin is better. Heck, a Krugerrand would get you the boat all to yourself, and Charon may even sing to entertain like a Venice gondolier.
You have a good point there! Having a Krugerrand instead of a nickel would provide that "cushion" everyone is always talking about! You know, a little extra "just in case."
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:04 PM   #49
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But then, the LBYM'er among us would compromise with just a silver dollar. Enough margin there, I'd say.
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:08 PM   #50
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Heh, heh, heh...

All this talk about paying toll or a ride fare just reminded me of a bumper sticker I saw a few days earlier on the freeway.
"Cash, grass, or ass...
Nobody rides free"
If you don't have the first two, you wouldn't want to hitchhike with this guy.
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:19 PM   #51
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"Cash, grass, or ass...Nobody rides free"
I like that! Set those words to music and we'd have a theme song for not spending your last nickel......
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:30 PM   #52
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Nobody rides free
As I recall the bumper sticker from the 60's (most often seen on chartreuse or flower painted microbuses) the first word was actually "gas" not "cash". Rhymes better that way. Yes I DO remember the 60's even though I was there.

But I digress from the hijacked thread about passage across the Styx.

In that vein, a good hippie friend of mine always used to say that a man should leave this world with no more than he could carry on his own strong shoulders. He always hated it when I would add "Yeah, about 5 million dollars in hundred dollar bills" ($1 million weighs about 10 kg or 22 pounds, so YMMV)
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:35 PM   #53
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Set those words to music and we'd have a theme song for not spending your last nickel......
Now that I'm wound up, I'll point out that, indeed, "Nobody rides for free" is included in Jackson Browne's song "Boulevard".

End of hijack of hijack. We now return you to........
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Old 10-17-2009, 03:17 PM   #54
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... the first word was actually "gas" not "cash".
Fine! Cash or gas, I will pay up as I have none of the latter two.

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End of hijack of hijack. We now return you to........
... return to, to ... spanking?


It seems the OP has not logged in since his last post. Is it hijacking if the thread was abandoned?


Sorry, Enuff2eat. Just my humorous self, teasing and taunting people.


Seriously, I can understand how the devastated news that was delivered to your friend affected you greatly; I have seen a few similar cases around me. What can we do? I have slowly learned to not make too detailed a plan in life, and to try to live in the present. Easier said than done, I know, and I am still learning to live.
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Old 10-17-2009, 03:26 PM   #55
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Khan, I went to Academy earlier this afternoon to buy some more of the polo shirts that I often wear. They usually cost $10-$20. I picked out six of the same brand that I always buy, and it turned out they were on sale for $2.44 - - all six, with tax, totalled $15!!!

I am pleased but I guess my attempts at a spending spree will have to wait until another day.
I just had to add - - today I bought five more for another $13. So, for $28 I got 11 nice polo shirts. Not only that, they gave me all 11 sturdy plastic hangers. So, assuming a dozen such hangers might cost $6, then that would be $22 for 11 nice polo shirts, after tax!! Sorry for the gloating but I don't often get good deals at sales, so this really made my day. I have enough shirts to last me for probably 3-4 years of retirement or more. Frank bought a few for himself, as well.
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Old 10-17-2009, 04:11 PM   #56
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Here is how I would answer original question by Enuff2Eat.

(1) I assume you have a retirement plan where you know how much you will need for retirement, how much you will allow yourself to spend, etc. If you are already retired, then you know what you can afford for your comfort level. So, from here on, I assume you are still accumulating.

(2) For every item you want to buy, since you know how much it costs, how much you make, and what your retirement goals are from (1), you should be able to estimate how much more time you will need work to earn that item. So, for example, you could estimate that buying a new car will cost you 6 more months of working.

(3) Buying an item now is BETTER than buying it later since you may die tomorrow or your health won't allow you to enjoy the item tomorrow. I don't know a good discount rate for this fact, but you should acknowledge that it exists... So, to account for this, I would randomly take 2/3 of your answer in (2) or perhaps you can estimate it based on how much you want the item and want to ensure you enjoy it. So in my example, assume buying new car is now worth 4 months of working (= 6 months * 2/3).

(4) Close your eyes, meditate, imagine you could retire *tomorrow*. Again, not N years from now, but TOMORROW. Now, answer the following question: would you rather retire tomorrow and not have your item, or would you rather work the time period in (3) and buy it?

I think you have the answer now...
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Old 10-17-2009, 10:15 PM   #57
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... I feel that it's an obligation to leave as much as possible for my children so they don't have to work as hard as we do. I have seen children with "well to do" parents, they tend to enjoy more of a good thing in life and have less stress than children come from poor families.
I think that it's my duty to teach my children to be independent and to be able to produce their own income. I have told them time and time again that in their lifetime they should be able to make more than I can ever leave for them.

And about children with wealthy parents, yes they enjoy more good things in life, but do their parents live forever to work to provide for them? We have seen stories of how often silly lottery winners blew away TENS of million of their grand prizes in a matter of a couple of years. And I certainly would never be able to leave my children with that kind of money.
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Old 10-18-2009, 06:49 AM   #58
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I've worked pretty hard to enjoy what I have, so hope to pass along that trait to my daughter. I did get help from my parents, and hope to help my daughter too.

I'd like to save something for her, but not sure how much. Should know in the next few years. She is making great gains, but with her autism I am not sure how independently she will be able to live as an adult.
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Old 10-18-2009, 07:23 AM   #59
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She is making great gains, but with her autism I am not sure how independently she will be able to live as an adult
A child who lacks the mental/physical ability needed to compete on a "level playing field" completely changes the rules. Of course, they should be considered in how you allocate your resources. And you should do it with a sense of pride and honor and not as an (unwelcome) obligation. I really respect your way of thinking.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:54 PM   #60
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All, thanks for your comments and suggestions. Nobody can tell what tomorrow will bring so "spanking" stuffs is good as long as you have enough saving and plan ahead for the future.

Calculate extra time of working per item you buy is too much work for me and it might discourage me from buying anything. What's the point of living... to me experiences worth hundreds time more than things. For example $1000 will get me a nice toy but the same $1000 can provide an"experience" like a get away or seeing a live show with friends and families. The experiences bring much more value to me.

A friend of my brother lives in a one bedroom apartment with his roommate. This guy is a computer science, makes decent money and enjoy weekends and holidays around the local area like everyone else. One unique thing about this guy is that his living expenses is so low and most of his saving is only for one purpose. Yes, it's all for travel. He traveled over 50 countries and once he came to see us in Washington DC area. He knows more about the local than I do. Now, that's what I am talking about. Spend it all in travel and leave nothing for the kids.....jk

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