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Old 10-07-2015, 11:39 PM   #61
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When my company wanted me to sign a non-compete (and this was after I'd been working there a few years in the same job), I got creative

They made the mistake of sending the document out as an MS Word document, so I simply changed a few words, printed it out and signed it, and kept an original signed copy. It's amazing how inserting 'not' or switching 'days' for 'months' will help your cause. I made sure the word wrap didn't change, so when I handed it to HR, they just stuck it in my file.

So if they had sent me something like what they sent the OP, I would send them a registered letter asking for a copy of the agreement I signed. When I got that, I'd say "But I did wait 18 days, as specified in the document!" It never came to that since they moved their operation offshore and sent me packing.
I was required to sign a number of forms that I didn't agree with, over the decades with megacorp. I often would strike out words or phrases (with a pen), or write "not" or "I don't agree" or something on the forms. Almost every time they were accepted and put wherever they put those things. I don't think anybody ever even looked at them. Just cya stuff, for the most part.
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Old 10-08-2015, 08:41 AM   #62
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Years ago, the CPA firm I was working for required all employees to sign a non-compete agreement. We were told that failure to sign was a firing offense. In NC, several people signed, even though they were planning to leave and take clients. When the firm came after them, the judge gave a summary judgement in favor of the employees (and legal fees!) since there was no compensation for signing. Continued employment in NC is not valid compensation. Every NC employee got a $100 check when we signed the new contracts 6 months later! My point is that state laws are different, and if the former company used an out of state agreement, it may have faults that will render it invalid.


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Old 10-08-2015, 09:02 AM   #63
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It wouldn't. I was pointing it out as a potential additional risk to OP's DD. If former employer are indeed jerks and serious about lawsuits, they may very well file against OP's DD and her new employer (who has deeper pockets?). If she promised new employer in writing that she didn't have any non-competes that would prevent her from working for them and it turns out she in fact did/does, that would not be good for her.
Ah understood!
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:03 AM   #64
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I guess I should say it was for 12 or 24 months...
even then that would prevent me from working for 1 or 2 years - I still wouldn't sign it
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:06 AM   #65
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Previous posters have identified the weakness of non-competes and given excellent advise about dealing with this. Basically find a Pit Bull lawyer to attack the former employer.
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Should My Daughter Seek Legal Counsel?
Old 10-08-2015, 07:59 PM   #66
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Should My Daughter Seek Legal Counsel?

DD's attorney sent a letter to former employer attorney asking for copy of signed non-compete document and proof of their claims that she took the client list and has stolen clients/business. Also informed them that she is not working for a competitor.
The former employer attorney provided the document daughter signed but nothing else except to ask for the name of DD new employer.
DD's attorney called and spoke to former employer attorney. Stated that due to past aggressive behavior of former employer, DD has not authorized to provide name of new employer, but assures that it is not a competitor.
The former employer could not provide any proof of their claims against DD and admitted it was based on rumors.

DD attorney said its done, they have nothing and not to worry about it.

DD did speak to her manager. Her manager's response was, " what a jerk!" and told DD not to worry about it.

So, it appears to be over. Just 72 hours of hell.




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Old 10-08-2015, 08:21 PM   #67
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Yay!

As I said, sometimes you need an expert lawyer. Money well spent. Problem over.
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Old 10-08-2015, 08:31 PM   #68
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The former employer attorney provided the document daughter signed but nothing else except to ask for the name of DD new employer.
So all that bluster about working for a competitor and stealing clients was outright fabrication because in fact the old employer had no idea who she was working for now.

It seems like that kind of aggressive threat without any basis to stand on should be punishable in some way. Too bad it's better for your daughter to just let them go away.
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Old 10-08-2015, 08:51 PM   #69
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DD's attorney sent a letter to former employer attorney asking for copy of signed non-compete document and proof of their claims that she took the client list and has stolen clients/business. Also informed them that she is not working for a competitor.
The former employer attorney provided the document daughter signed but nothing else except to ask for the name of DD new employer.
DD's attorney called and spoke to former employer attorney. Stated that due to past aggressive behavior of former employer, DD has not authorized to provide name of new employer, but assures that it is not a competitor.
The former employer could not provide any proof of their claims against DD and admitted it was based on rumors.

DD attorney said its done, they have nothing and not to worry about it.

DD did speak to her manager. Her manager's response was, " what a jerk!" and told DD not to worry about it.

So, it appears to be over. Just 72 hours of hell.




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I'm guessing DD's lawyer didn't work for free. I'd suggest that he ask former employer for costs.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:02 PM   #70
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I'm guessing DD's lawyer didn't work for free. I'd suggest that he ask former employer for costs.
To do so would probably involve billings of a 0.1 hr phone call to her lawyer, 0.5 hr to draft a letter, 0.25 hr to read the former boss' reply, and 0.1 hr to call her up to discuss the reply.

I'm guessing they would simply say "We never told you you had to hire a lawyer, we simply told you that you are not to be using your lists or stealing old clients. It was your decision to pay someone to represent you." All for another 1.0 hr of billings.
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Old 10-08-2015, 10:50 PM   #71
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Yay! Money well spent and I am glad it was solved with the one letter and phone call. By getting an attorney involved, she let the former employer and employer's lawyer know she would fight if need be.
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Old 10-09-2015, 05:54 AM   #72
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.............It seems like that kind of aggressive threat without any basis to stand on should be punishable in some way..............
I know a couple of guys that will break his arm for $100
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Old 10-09-2015, 07:42 AM   #73
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These agreements do have a place in business. The last couple I signed were for small companies that defined the technological area they were protecting (not anything a mega corp does in any division), customer list, vendor lists, poaching people, not using other companies IP.

I know a local small company that hired a design engineer from a mega corp in a similar industry. The engineer used technology from the mega corp in a product and created a law suit between the two companies which ended up bankrupting the small company.

I never changed jobs to what I thought were similar companies, but I was often concerned by how broad the mega corp restrictions were.

glad this is over for DD. These agreements should not be used to prevent one from earning a living
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Old 10-09-2015, 08:43 AM   #74
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Glad she got a lawyer, hope it is resolved quickly. Given what she does, I could see overlap in customers and even vendors.. Most people have to sign the non-compete jobs.. there are always ways around them... normally working with other customers/vendors for a period of time so your not in direct non-compete even though you work for a competitor.

I will have to say I'm also surprised they went after her (unless they lost lots of clients which certainly could drive that) as most people under Director are really considered non players unless you break a patent or clearly caught transferring customer lists, pricing, roadmaps, etc.
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Old 10-09-2015, 09:10 AM   #75
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....It seems like that kind of aggressive threat without any basis to stand on should be punishable in some way. Too bad it's better for your daughter to just let them go away.
+1 I'm more of a prick and would then go after those jerks for entertainment... like some sort of counterclaim for harassment. Perhaps her lawyer would take it on for fun... I know I might if I were him.
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Old 10-09-2015, 09:18 AM   #76
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Pb4uski and Travelover,

I'm having to fight the urge to rip her former boss a new one.
He knows my DD, her character and ethics. He is a bully (has pulled this crap on other former employees) and that is why DD didn't want to cave in to his bully tactics to find out her new employer.
How embarrassing for his attorney having to admit his claims were all hot air.


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Old 10-09-2015, 09:22 AM   #77
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So, it appears to be over. Just 72 hours of hell.




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Glad it's over - sorry your daughter had to deal with this.
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Old 10-09-2015, 09:44 AM   #78
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So glad to hear that your daughter can put this behind her.

This just confirms she made the right choice leaving that company.
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Old 10-09-2015, 09:56 AM   #79
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Pb4uski and Travelover,

I'm having to fight the urge to rip her former boss a new one.
He knows my DD, her character and ethics. He is a bully (has pulled this crap on other former employees) and that is why DD didn't want to cave in to his bully tactics to find out her new employer.
How embarrassing for his attorney having to admit his claims were all hot air.


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The former employer started this on " Rumors " ? His business is suffering and lost customers because he is stupid and lacks competence not only in sales, but treating employees decently. People like this deserve to go out of business.

My uninformed opinion is this, and even more very likely, previous pay issues are actionable and worth pursuing. The only thing to change the behavior of a business owner or managers like this is having to write a settlement check and pay for legal cost , not only his defence, but of the person damaged.

This guy needs a reality check , via civil action. I know several atty's that make a small fortune fixing the crap caused by their own clients. Employers like this keep the calendars full in the civil courts.
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Old 10-09-2015, 10:12 AM   #80
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I would leave an anonymous tip with state and fed labor departments. Give them specific time periods of any unusual accounting for wages. Wait six months or so...
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