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Old 03-11-2012, 04:24 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by kcowan View Post
That is not true. He has negotiated a $75k payoff for his mortgage and he has refused to consider an offer close to $275k for his house. He knows exactly what he is doing. Leave him alone.

I had a neighbour who tried to lean on me for financial support. I just said NO! We are still friends. The people that loaned him money are no longer friends.
I meant there are no good options left for the OP to do to help his father.

I think you did a smart thing by just saying "No" to your neighbor. Giving a reason just opens it up to discussion.
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:25 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Letj View Post
Yeh, this group is really tough. I am more in your camp. I think sometimes people forget that as human beings we are flawed. We often blame people for their circumstances without considering that some people may suffer from undiagnosed mental illness, may be handicapped by their limited education, their upbring, their ignorances, their dependence on drugs and alcohol and the list goes on and on. I've lived long enough to realize how fortunate I am because despite my upbringing and influence I saw around me, I turned out right. I didn't turn out right because I made the right choices all on my own. I turned out right because there was intervention in my life and exposure at some point to different values than what I saw around me. Even my choice of career came by what I saw around me. I got my first job in a big company and I saw that the people who made money were all those with the business degrees, especially accounting and I realized my degree in sociology wasn't going to cut it so I went to grad school and got the degree that was more marketable. Let's not be so self righteous because this could have been one of us.
What do you suggest that the OP do?
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:45 PM   #63
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I think the title to this thread speaks volumes. I suspect the OP already knows what to do, just looking for affirmation.
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:49 PM   #64
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A book I read describes what the author calls "Crazy Makers". They call you at 10:30 PM and ask you (with absolutely no prior notice) to pick up their niece at the airport because the crazy maker messed up and forgot. If you don't pick her up it will be YOUR fault if she has to spend the night at the airport or is kidnapped by some terrorist.
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:57 PM   #65
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A couple of things come to my mind on reading the OP postings.

1. Not sure that anyone at 67 should be thought of being able to enter the employment market and make any meaningful money. Hell I know if I was 67 I wouldn't be keen on going to get a job.

2. I would stay out of it and let him work it out for himself. If you intervene and buy the property and install him as a tenant and he doesn't pay what are you going to do? I'll bet if you are being made to feel guilty about him possibly losing the house to foreclosure you will eat the lack of rent.

3. If you finance the house in any way that he has control, given his history I think it would be safe to go down the road that he will suck out what equity he can for whatever he chooses to do.

Personally I would sit on the sidelines and wait until the final tsunami hits, see what he comes up with to solve his issue, besides hitting on his children.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:44 PM   #66
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If you're not very careful, you'll wind up owning that house and he will be living there rent free until the end of time. I can't say for sure what I'd do as I haven't faced that situation, but I'm not keen on helping people who skated while I've worked like a dog for over 30 years for the precious little I have - especially when I know it's going to be flushed down a black hole in the ground. I'd probably let it play out however it will. Another really good reason not to let anyone (especially family) know what's in your bank account.
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:32 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Letj View Post
Yeh, this group is really tough. I am more in your camp. I think sometimes people forget that as human beings we are flawed. We often blame people for their circumstances without considering that some people may suffer from undiagnosed mental illness, may be handicapped by their limited education, their upbring, their ignorances, their dependence on drugs and alcohol and the list goes on and on. I've lived long enough to realize how fortunate I am because despite my upbringing and influence I saw around me, I turned out right. I didn't turn out right because I made the right choices all on my own. I turned out right because there was intervention in my life and exposure at some point to different values than what I saw around me. Even my choice of career came by what I saw around me. I got my first job in a big company and I saw that the people who made money were all those with the business degrees, especially accounting and I realized my degree in sociology wasn't going to cut it so I went to grad school and got the degree that was more marketable. Let's not be so self righteous because this could have been one of us.
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Originally Posted by Helen View Post
What do you suggest that the OP do?
Yeah, and how many interventions do you do "just one more time"?
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:48 PM   #68
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A couple of things come to my mind on reading the OP postings.

1. Not sure that anyone at 67 should be thought of being able to enter the employment market and make any meaningful money. Hell I know if I was 67 I wouldn't be keen on going to get a job.

2. I would stay out of it and let him work it out for himself. If you intervene and buy the property and install him as a tenant and he doesn't pay what are you going to do? I'll bet if you are being made to feel guilty about him possibly losing the house to foreclosure you will eat the lack of rent.

3. If you finance the house in any way that he has control, given his history I think it would be safe to go down the road that he will suck out what equity he can for whatever he chooses to do.

Personally I would sit on the sidelines and wait until the final tsunami hits, see what he comes up with to solve his issue, besides hitting on his children.

I would also sit on the sidelines but I would be preparing a safety net for when the tsunami happens .Sorry you have to deal with this it most be heart wrenching .
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:08 PM   #69
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According to credit.com, for a reverse mortgage, "credit score, savings, and income are not used in the loan calculation. Instead, your age, health, home value, and home equity are taken into consideration." Maybe that's an option for your father?

Making Sense of Reverse Mortgages | Credit.com
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:37 PM   #70
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Can he rent a small apartment and support himself on his SS income?

Given his age and spotty work history, employment is likely not an option. Given today's economy, he probably wouldn't even be competitive for entry level jobs.

He knows the OP has some money and is testing the waters.

The guy's survived 67 years this way. And he'll continue to survive the rest of his life one way or another. I wonder if his deadbeat status isn't being embellished somewhat. After all, a financial institution saw fit to give him a mortgage at some point. Even with the lax underwriting requirements of the past, he had to have some sort of positive credit history.

Senior citizens in his situation are basically "judgment proof" as far as owing money goes. The only thing he's going to lose is the house. Worst case scenario, he moves into a senior subsidized apartment.
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:14 AM   #71
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$275K property for a guy with no savings and minimal SS is too much house. (How much would a small house go for in that area?) My advice is to say no to any co-signing or trying to buy it for him. Put the house on the market. Let's say it sells for $200K, after he pays off the $150K mortage, he could have $50K in savings. It's not much, but it's better than continuing to try to service this mortgage when he just can't afford it and is just getting deeper into debt.
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:27 PM   #72
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For what is is worth, I did that before (helped family out with money). Yadi Yadi Yadi, I am still out $3,200 after many years. The family tug can be strong, but I made a promise to myself after the last time: If I can help out in any way, I will GIVE the money to a family member. I will not loan it to them.
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:45 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Chickadee View Post
According to credit.com, for a reverse mortgage, "credit score, savings, and income are not used in the loan calculation. Instead, your age, health, home value, and home equity are taken into consideration." Maybe that's an option for your father?

Making Sense of Reverse Mortgages | Credit.com
I was going to suggest that you wish him the best of luck and ask if he has considered a reverse mortgage.

Seriously, do not mix your finances and his crazy.
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:15 PM   #74
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Am I the only one who noticed that the OP's refusal to co-sign a loan resulted in a shouting match from dear old dad?

This leads me to believe that the father knows exactly what is happening and is looking for an easy bail-out at the expense of his sons.

I suspect that you can kiss goodbye to any funding you give him AND be prepared to be the "bad son" for not supporting him in his old age.

I am on the side of the "tough love" group, I'm afraid. Tell him you're sorry but you can't help him financially.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:58 PM   #75
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Encourage him to sell while he can, use 75 of the sale proceeds to settle up with the mortgagor and then take a large portion of the remainder and buy a SPIA that pays him monthly income and use a smaller portion as an emergency fund and move on to a different place.

But don't jeopardize your financial future to bail him out of his foolishness.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:03 PM   #76
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I'm just wondering-does he have any other plan, other than getting help from his children?
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:07 AM   #77
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Another angle - offer him your unstinting support, in all ways but financial. Listen to him, invite him to dinner, be loving. That's the duty of a child, not being his hedge against taking responsibility.

You can be a caring person without being a chump. Dollars and heart don't have to go together.

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Old 03-14-2012, 11:19 AM   #78
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Reverse mortage?
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:03 PM   #79
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Another angle - offer him your unstinting support, in all ways but financial. Listen to him, invite him to dinner, be loving. That's the duty of a child, not being his hedge against taking responsibility.

You can be a caring person without being a chump. Dollars and heart don't have to go together.

SIS
And what's the duty of a father? What has dad been doing all these years? Was he being a father? No. Was he providing support? No.

Maybe father should have been a caring person if wanting others to reciprocate?
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:24 PM   #80
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Has anyone suggested a reverse mortgage? If he could get the mortgage debt off his back even if he gets no monthly income from it, that might be enough to keep him out of your wallet for a few more years.
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