Slightly unscrupulous investment pros

[TickTock]

Next time he calls, tell him you'd like to have his plan reviewed by a few of your investing buddies and have him post it here.

Oh, hell yes!!!

I like the way you think, Nords.

 

[W2R]

Want2, don't sell yourself short. Just by the fact that you're a member of this board puts you ahead of 99% of the rest of the country as regards investing, polishing, and caring for your nest egg. You have a PLAN. Most don't, and that's what your caller was banking on. He had the misfortune to hit on someone who had a plan and the moxie to stick to it.

Thanks. I do have a plan, though I don't have much experience in investing.

This board has helped a lot. The first time the market took a little dip, I was among the "The Sky is Falling!" contingent and was surprised that most of the rest here on the board seemed as cool as cucumbers. After that, when the market drops I have been relatively calm about it too. Recently, I bought funds when the market dropped precipitously. I was pretty freaked, but someone here pointed out that I probably got a good deal. I did, and so I learned something there, too.

Also, I like the fact that on this board I can be honest about what I don't know, and ask, with no repercussions. I have learned a lot here.

Listening to him and investing with him would have probably been a good way to reduce your net worth......

LOL!!! Well, then I'd be in trouble. After getting a couple of large distributions from my mother's estate last week, I have completely retired "Plan A" (the low net worth plan that was my only ER plan until recently).

Right now I have about the right net worth for "Plan B" so I am working on it and have just about all the wrinkles beat out of it. If the rest of the inheritance comes through as I am told it will in the second quarter of the year, "Plan C" will be a perfect fit.

 

[TickTock]

DH taught me a foolproof method for getting rid of these parasites--although I first thought it was rather cruel... When it becomes obvious the caller is trying to sell you something over the phone, just lay the phone down gently and leave the room. You'll be surprised how long they will continue to talk, even with no feedback.

My frustration with the telemarketers who apparently have a 'they will buy if you simply talk long enough first' mandate eventually overcame my innate politeness. Now I say once, "Thank you, I'm not interested" IF I can get this in in the first five seconds. If not, the receiver goes down on the desk. If they continue talking after the "I'm not interested", the receiver goes down on the desk.

The poetic justice here is that the more of my time they try to waste by talking, the less money they make (since they could have been dialing for dollars with other [-]suckers[/-] customers...

 

[TickTock]

I made the mistake of going to a "free lunch seminar" with a friend once. Had to listen to a lame presentation by an Ameriprise (yikes!) sales guy. Unfortunately, I didn't think to make up fake info when they asked for our contact info.

[Blues Brothers]

Don't worry; I falsified my information. I gave my address as 1060 West Addison.

(think) That's Wrigley Field!

Yah. Cool, huh?

[/Blues Brothers]

 

[megacorp-firee]

LOL!!! You are all making me feel a lot better. I am probably a prime target because I am so inexperienced with investing and timid, as well as green. But maybe I know more than I realize. I know enough not to want any of those from my bank, not even the pen (I have plenty from other vendors).

With an inheritance comes all sorts of baggage that is making me feel more timid at the moment. I feel a responsibility not to let it slip through my fingers, since my family worked so hard for it. If I let my own money slip through my fingers, I'd just tighten the belt and I would never feel this timid in the first place. Also increasing one's net worth by several times is a different dynamic. Nice, but a little edgy.

W2R ... ease up on yourself. Your past posts show that you are fairly level headed and have a plan (that's the important part).

I think you're right, ... the 'new found money' seems to be what is throwing you off your game. Treat it as part of your existing portfolio. Same plan (well, maybe now you can get the orchastra seats instead of balcony ). But essentially you should do what you've been doing.

About being timid, I would subsitute the word careful. Careful is ok.

Also agree with poster on being a member of this board is a good indicator. We are all trying to learn, refine our strategies, and help each other.

Hang in there.

 

[megacorp-firee]

I think a man would be pressured differently, but no less hard.

They go for the ego with men. Eons ago, I was called by a boiler room commodities vampire(ss). In my youth, I was more polite (I have overcome this character flaw when it comes to dealing with parasites) and tried to ease out of it by saying '... I have to discuss this with my wife'... LOL the vampiress retort was something I had heard when I was in high school, she said '... who wears the pants in your family?' ... I hung up.
Interesting ploy don't ya think?

 

[mb]

Investment guy: "Who is your financial advisor, if I may ask?"

I have an answer that I have been really wanting to use for this question: "The firm of French, Fama, Malkiel, Bogle and Bernstein."

If they don't get it they have nothing of value to offer!

MB

 

[megacorp-firee]

Good point; salesfolk are trained to overcome objections.

If I want to go past, "No, thank you, bye", I say, "It just doesn't feel right." How the heck can you argue with a feeling?

When I was in sales, they called it objection handling. We even had scenarios and scripts. As trainees, we would practice them on each other before going in front of a client. These telemarketers have online scripts that they go to (dozens of them) when you give your objection.

The best thing is to INTERRUPT them with a loud 'Thank You, Not Interested! and hang up. Giving them an objection just feeds their process.

This experience has given me a lot of enjoyment... on the rare occasions when I am in the mood, I mess with them by giving them objection after objection and wait while they scroll thru their objection handling screens. ... hey I have my 'b*tch days' too

 

[mb]

LOL!!! You are all making me feel a lot better. I am probably a prime target because I am so inexperienced with investing and timid, as well as green. But maybe I know more than I realize.

C'mon W2R, I'm not going to be as nice as everyone else

You need to SUCK IT UP, YOU have an engineering degree and a Ph.D. for gosh sakes. You're probably smarter than 99% of these bank bozos

After reading a couple of books you probably know more about investing than most of them

However there is one thing that I think that you would really suck at and that is selling investment products

With my sincere apologies

MB

 

[megacorp-firee]

C'mon W2R, I'm not going to be as nice as everyone else

You need to SUCK IT UP, YOU have an engineering degree and a Ph.D. for gosh sakes. You're probably smarter than 99% of these bank bozos

After reading a couple of books you probably know more about investing than most of them

However there is one thing that I think that you would really suck at and that is selling investment products

With my sincere apologies

MB

oooohhhh someone needs a hug

 

[Retire Soon]

Always assume that everyone at any financial institution you do business with has access to everything, including the details of your credit report. Didn't you read that tiny little annual privacy disclosure doc they sent with your statement?

Banks do not have undeserved snooping access to the details of my credit reports, because all three of mine are frozen!

 

[brewer12345]

Banks do not have undeserved snooping access to the details of my credit reports, because all three of mine are frozen!

Awfully trusting, aren't you?

Remember the story that came out a few years ago that Alan Greenspan was turned down for a credit card? The automated underwriting engine/idiot credit officer pulled his credit report and saw hundreds of inquiries and denied the application. How many of those peeks do you think he authorized?

 

[W2R]

C'mon W2R, I'm not going to be as nice as everyone else

You need to SUCK IT UP, YOU have an engineering degree and a Ph.D. for gosh sakes. You're probably smarter than 99% of these bank bozos

After reading a couple of books you probably know more about investing than most of them

However there is one thing that I think that you would really suck at and that is selling investment products

With my sincere apologies

MB

ROFL! You're right. I have always been loathe to claim expertise outside of my engineering/science background, but hey - - I'm working pretty hard at gaining some (even if I don't have the paper or track record yet to prove it).

I would be AWFUL at sales of any type, you're right! Which is one of several reasons why I have never even tried working in that occupation. If I ran the world, there would be no sales pitches, no junk mail, no spam, and no junk phone calls. People would just call if they were interested in something, and their questions would be promptly, politely, and correctly answered. Yes, I am from planet Mars!

 

[W2R]

W2R ... ease up on yourself. Your past posts show that you are fairly level headed and have a plan (that's the important part).

I think you're right, ... the 'new found money' seems to be what is throwing you off your game. Treat it as part of your existing portfolio. Same plan (well, maybe now you can get the orchastra seats instead of balcony ). But essentially you should do what you've been doing.

About being timid, I would subsitute the word careful. Careful is ok.

Also agree with poster on being a member of this board is a good indicator. We are all trying to learn, refine our strategies, and help each other.

Hang in there.

You're right about the 'new found money' throwing me off. It's not every day that I have several times as much in my checking account, as I ever expected my total net worth to be. It's enough to make my want to yell a few choice explosive expletives and race off to the bathroom, shall we say. Eventually the nice part of this situation will sink in, once it is invested and then I can settle down and relax. It just isn't to that point, yet.

Honestly, so far I don't have any additional plans for spending it. I know I don't want to get into the principal. I just want to get it in place, and then as I get some feel of what I can expect as income from it (in the real world, as opposed to theoretical projections), I'll think about what to do with it. On Friday I'm going to my insurance agent to get more liability insurance and an umbrella policy.

I just called Vanguard to get the information I need for the wire transfer, and intend to go to my bank and get it done this morning. If I can just get that money out of my checking account and in Vanguard, I will feel 100% better. Vanguard feels like a safe haven right now.

By the way, Vanguard was SO NICE and helpful on the phone. They didn't even ask how much I was wiring. And, they answered on the first ring, as soon as I told the automated system that I wanted a person.

 

[kombat]

These bank guys really do prey on people, men or women, who look like they don't know what they are doing.

I know this is a forum focused on finances, but I don't really think there's any news here. "Investment peddlers prey on uninformed" is not a shocking headline, any more than "Car salesman pushes unnecessary extras" or "Stereo salesman doesn't understand impedance" are newsflashes.

Every industry takes advantage of peoples' naivete. And quite often, sales people don't actually know very much about their products. When I shop for a car, it's not uncommon for me to know more about the vehicle I'm interested in than the salesman. I don't really think that's necessarily horrible, though. Is it really reasonable to expect a car salesman to be able to explain the technical intricacies of VTEC, or have a thorough understanding of how a catalytic converter works? I don't think so. If he were really that passionate about automobiles, he'd be designing them instead of selling them (and probably making a lot more money, too).

Many of these mutual fund peddlers are doing this as a second career. They take a couple 2-week certification courses and think that makes them experts. But of course anybody with an interest in money (like, oh, say virtually everyone on this board) who is truly passionate about this stuff and spends their spare time reading about it is going to be better informed than the fund salesman.

I just don't see any of this as "shocking," or even unique to the finance industry. It's pretty much how capitalism works. Is Tiffany jewelry really worth 10x as much as other jewelry? Are Nikon lenses really worth paying twice as much as Tamron? Is an Acura really worth that much more than a Honda? I don't believe so - yet these companies still make money, so they're somehow fooling vast numbers of wealthy people.

 

[Retire Soon]

Awfully trusting, aren't you?

Remember the story that came out a few years ago that Alan Greenspan was turned down for a credit card? The automated underwriting engine/idiot credit officer pulled his credit report and saw hundreds of inquiries and denied the application. How many of those peeks do you think he authorized?

You are right and thanks for pointing that out. To my surprise, I checked with Consumers Union and and learned that companies who I have existing accounts with, law enforcement, and government agencies doing an investigation all still have access to my three credit reports. Well, I guess that makes George Orwell right as well.


Frequently asked questions about security freeze

 

[Nords]

I think a man would be pressured differently, but no less hard.

They go for the ego with men. she said '... who wears the pants in your family?' ... I hung up.

"C'mon, dude, a real man would be all over this no-brainer! LeBron is in for 20%, how 'bout you?"

You're right about the 'new found money' throwing me off. It's not every day that I have several times as much in my checking account, as I ever expected my total net worth to be. It's enough to make my want to yell a few choice explosive expletives and race off to the bathroom, shall we say.
Honestly, so far I don't have any additional plans for spending it. I know I don't want to get into the principal. I just want to get it in place, and then as I get some feel of what I can expect as income from it (in the real world, as opposed to theoretical projections), I'll think about what to do with it. On Friday I'm going to my insurance agent to get more liability insurance and an umbrella policy.

I'm not even gonna touch that bathroom comment, but have you read Thayer Cheatham-Willis' "Navigating the Dark Side of Wealth" or looked at SuddenMoney.com? Both have a wealth of resources and methods for dealing with the changes that you may not have even seen coming.

Later on, when things have settled and decisions have been made and you're ready for some voyeuristic schadenfreude entertainment, try "The Stewardship of Private Wealth" by Sally Kleberg of Texas' "King Ranch" family.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

You're right about the 'new found money' throwing me off. It's not every day that I have several times as much in my checking account, as I ever expected my total net worth to be..

W2R, if your windfall is truly substantial (and it now sounds like it is - congratulations!), one of the popular books - Diehard's guide, Motley Fool guide or similar - has a brief chapter on what to do with a windfall. Check it out next time at the bookstore.

Don't know what I'd do, but it probably would be just what I'm doing now, only with the decimal point moved to the right . Maybe a more aggressive basic allocation.

Nice dilemma to have, and I wish you well. So, how does this affect your timetable?

 

[FinanceDude]

I know this is a forum focused on finances, but I don't really think there's any news here. "Investment peddlers prey on uninformed" is not a shocking headline, any more than "Car salesman pushes unnecessary extras" or "Stereo salesman doesn't understand impedance" are newsflashes.

Have to agree on that..........

Every

industry takes advantage of peoples' naivete. And quite often, sales people don't actually know very much about their products. When I shop for a car, it's not uncommon for me to know more about the vehicle I'm interested in than the salesman. I don't really think that's necessarily horrible, though. Is it really reasonable to expect a car salesman to be able to explain the technical intricacies of VTEC, or have a thorough understanding of how a catalytic converter works? I don't think so. If he were really that passionate about automobiles, he'd be designing them instead of selling them (and probably making a lot more money, too).

Car designers don't make as much as you think........
I suppose you could get rid of all the salespeople in the US, but then we'd have to get rid of a lot of salaried folks along with that.............

Many of these mutual fund peddlers are doing this as a second career. They take a couple 2-week certification courses and think that makes them experts. But of course anybody with an interest in money (like, oh, say virtually everyone on this board) who is truly passionate about this stuff and spends their spare time reading about it is going to be better informed than the fund salesman.

What 2-week certification course do you take to sell funds? I've never heard of one..........

I just don't see any of this as "shocking," or even unique to the finance industry. It's pretty much how capitalism works. Is Tiffany jewelry really worth 10x as much as other jewelry? Are Nikon lenses really worth paying twice as much as Tamron? Is an Acura really worth that much more than a Honda? I don't believe so - yet these companies still make money, so they're somehow fooling vast numbers of wealthy people.[/quote]

 

[FinanceDude]

Deleted.........

 

[megacorp-firee]

"C'mon, dude, a real man would be all over this no-brainer! LeBron is in for 20%, how 'bout you?"

Guess you're right ... I'm giving her the pants, with the belt and the suspenders.

 

[kombat]

What 2-week certification course do you take to sell funds? I've never heard of one..........

The one Primerica offers?

When my wife and I got sucked into one of their "job interviews" (*snicker*), they said that all we had to do was pay $300 to take a short certification course, and we'd be licensed to sell insurance and mutual funds in Ontario.

 

[FinanceDude]

The one Primerica offers?

When my wife and I got sucked into one of their "job interviews" (*snicker*), they said that all we had to do was pay $300 to take a short certification course, and we'd be licensed to sell insurance and mutual funds in Ontario.

You are assuming that Primerica hires and trains folks to be advisers, not a MLM sham that is a disgrace to Citibank..............

And yes, a Series 6 license is not hard to get, my State Farm rep has it. However, those State Farm funds ain't the cat's meow...........

 

[W2R]

have you read Thayer Cheatham-Willis' "Navigating the Dark Side of Wealth" or looked at SuddenMoney.com? Both have a wealth of resources and methods for dealing with the changes that you may not have even seen coming.

Later on, when things have settled and decisions have been made and you're ready for some voyeuristic schadenfreude entertainment, try "The Stewardship of Private Wealth" by Sally Kleberg of Texas' "King Ranch" family.

Thanks for the links and references. I read a couple of books on the topic, one of which was the "Sudden Money" book referred to on SuddenMoney.com . I think I'm extremely well prepared to not blow it (like some sports figures have been known to do). I really do feel a responsibility to keep and grow this capital.

Beyond that, I think the degree of impact on my normally sedate and complacent outlook was surprising. One thinks one is cool and sophisticated until one has an event of this sort impacting one's happily frugal and LBYM existance. I think that the decision not to start spending a lot right away, or to change my life right away, will help me to return to my normal, calm self.

Speaking of which, I just got the money wired to Vanguard. Once I see it in place in my Vanguard account, with no silly *'s next to the number, I think I will breathe a HUGE sigh of relief.

 

[W2R]

W2R, if your windfall is truly substantial (and it now sounds like it is - congratulations!), one of the popular books - Diehard's guide, Motley Fool guide or similar - has a brief chapter on what to do with a windfall. Check it out next time at the bookstore.

Don't know what I'd do, but it probably would be just what I'm doing now, only with the decimal point moved to the right . Maybe a more aggressive basic allocation.

Nice dilemma to have, and I wish you well. So, how does this affect your timetable?

Thanks for the tip! I have read a chapter on windfalls in the Bogleheads Guide to Investing (don't know if I got the title right, but the one by Taylor Larimore, LeBoeuf, and somebody else) and will check some of the other popular books as well.

Thanks for your good wishes. This is a substantial amount to me, but remember that I really feel comfortable with LBYM and was anticipating a modest ER. Previously my goal was $2K/month from a combination of SS, tiny pension, and $760/mo from investments, with a paid off house and lifetime medical. This extra money will bring me up to a level of net worth that is more usual on this forum, but will not be especially astounding to many ER forum participants.

It will not affect my timetable at all, unfortunately, because I am still waiting for lifetime medical. I should qualify for that in about 21 months. Since the last third of the windfall is expected to be sent to me in the second quarter of 2008, by which time it will be more like 18 months I suppose, I might as well go the distance and get my lifetime medical. (sigh) That might also see me through the recent stock market dips and wobbles, which would be nice.