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Old 07-17-2011, 05:00 PM   #101
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I can see the point that the govt might be in the best position to annuitize our retirement money. But when you mention having little bargaining power, well, I also feel that way about the Govt.
When I retired a year ago, going through the process of arranging SS and state government retirement annuities, though I had to make choices, there was no opportunity for bargaining, but also no necessity for it. The government functionaries you deal with in doing a thing like this may sometimes be uninterested, or incompetent (though I've no complaint about the folks I dealt with), but they're not trying to screw you. Why should they? They get no commission for a sale, nor any advantage from minimizing your benefits. It's taxpayers' money -- not theirs.
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Old 07-17-2011, 05:41 PM   #102
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As I understand it, high deductible policies are 'out' in the US Healthcare bill. Shame - as in the above example, if I can prove I am 'good' for the deductible, why not give me a choice?

-ERD50
You’ll still be able to buy HSA-eligible/high deductible policies when the health-insurance exchanges start operating in 2014. The set of preventive care that's not subject to a deductible will become somewhat more standardized. My current high-deductible policy already includes one (1) preventive care physician exam, a standard panel of lab tests, and immunizations. The provider has already indicated that the plan will not see any changes for 2014 under current law.
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Old 07-18-2011, 12:44 AM   #103
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I guess I disagree.

The vast majority of Americans, IMHO, are not equiped to manage their retirement assets; and so, I would fear that having done a poor job the multitudes would end up being even more of a burden/drain on those of us that have saved.

This is in no way suggesting Congress gets it right, but I think the alternative would cost the taxpayer twice in this instance.
I agree with Lars. Also, how many people have saved enough in their early to mid 20's, to be able to take care of themselves if they became disabled? How many of us had disability insurance in our early to mid 20's? What if you died in your mid 20's and left a wife and a couple of kids. Would your life insurance policy, if you had one, taken care of them until the kids reached age 18? Social Security is more than just retirement benefits.
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Old 07-18-2011, 07:40 AM   #104
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The government should take care of us, because we are to stupid to do it ourselves? Yep, that is what you all are saying. Where does it end? NY. - tell restaurants how much salt they can use. Many schools - what parents can bring for school birthday parties. Tax junk food so people will eat less. Sin taxes of all sorts. What type flag you can fly or not fly. Your kid must wear a bicycle helmet. You must wear a motorcycle helmet. You must wear a seat belt. You must pay for your neighbors bad financial habits. We are talking the FEDERAL government. Would you agree to a world government with the same powers? Why not there are starving fools all over the world. Don't they deserve what you have? We have become government happy! Rather than researching and teaching what is best for us we legislate it for everyone, and expect the rich to pay for it. Wake up folks, you are the rich! On average, the people on this board are above average and you/we will pay the toll.
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:50 AM   #105
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The government should take care of us, because we are to stupid to do it ourselves?
Yes. We always have been stupid and unruly. Use to be, when families and communities were close-knit and strong, our relatives and neighbors would help us out and control our behavior. That is less and less so, and government has to expand to fill the gap. May as well get used to it --- it's how civilization advances.
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Old 07-18-2011, 12:38 PM   #106
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It seems like every month, I read an article on "How to survive on your monthly social security check". The fact there are so many of them written makes me realize the necessity of SS, for a lot of unfortunate Joe Six Packs. If we want less people on the dole, we probably need to as others mentioned take more out of the wage earners check and reserve it for them down the road. I read other forums for my amusement and you wouldn't believe how many posts such as "I owe $30,000 in credit card debt, how do I pay it off?" Don't see those posts in our "fire and money" section here too often!
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Old 07-18-2011, 06:31 PM   #107
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The government should take care of us, because we are to stupid to do it ourselves? Yep, that is what you all are saying. Where does it end?
Well, how to stop it? It seems that we, as a country, believe that voluntary charity and within-family gifts which society has used for millions of years to support the old and indigent are no longer suitable, despite the wealth we have here. We believe it is proper to use the police power of government to take the personal property of some citizens to support others. Not at a subsistence level, but at a level of comfort that the vast majority of those on earth don't experience, and never have.
If that's what we are facing (and we are), then I'm all in favor of taxing people more to pay for their own retirement (under government's heavy hand) so I don't have to do it. At least with SS there's some modest link between what you put in and what you get out, and they aren't taxing dividends and interest payments to support it. Yet.
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Old 07-18-2011, 06:54 PM   #108
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Well, how to stop it? It seems that we, as a country, believe that voluntary charity and within-family gifts which society has used for millions of years to support the old and indigent are no longer suitable, despite the wealth we have here. We believe it is proper to use the police power of government to take the personal property of some citizens to support others. Not at a subsistence level, but at a level of comfort that the vast majority of those on earth don't experience, and never have.
If that's what we are facing (and we are), then I'm all in favor of taxing people more to pay for their own retirement (under government's heavy hand) so I don't have to do it. At least with SS there's some modest link between what you put in and what you get out, and they aren't taxing dividends and interest payments to support it. Yet.
This is a very good point. I really hope they never tax dividends or interest payments to fund SS as that would mean we were fools for LBYM and should have just blown all our money like everyone else while we were younger. If you realize that means testing of SS is a very real possibility then I guess we are too late and dividends and interest payments will indirectly be supporting SS in the near future. Oh well.
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Old 07-18-2011, 07:16 PM   #109
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This is a very good point. I really hope they never tax dividends or interest payments to fund SS as that would mean we were fools for LBYM and should have just blown all our money like everyone else while we were younger. If you realize that means testing of SS is a very real possibility then I guess we are too late and dividends and interest payments will indirectly be supporting SS in the near future. Oh well.
Do you really care how they extract their pound of flesh ? Higher SS taxes or higher other taxes.

One way or another you will pay.
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Old 07-18-2011, 07:22 PM   #110
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Do you really care how they extract their pound of flesh ? Higher SS taxes or higher other taxes.

One way or another you will pay.
It might make a difference. "Individual forced saving for personal retirement" could be packaged as a tax, and that might, eventually, reduce the number of folks depending on money from the general fund (i.e. other people). That would be objectionable, but less objectionable than "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:17 PM   #111
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It might make a difference. "Individual forced saving for personal retirement" could be packaged as a tax, and that might, eventually, reduce the number of folks depending on money from the general fund (i.e. other people). That would be objectionable, but less objectionable than "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
Yeah! And we could put part, perhaps most of that savings into a special class of government bonds, paying fixed rate of interest, so as to free up cash for the Need of the Government!

What could possibly go wrong?
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Old 07-18-2011, 08:27 PM   #112
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Yeah! And we could put part, perhaps most of that savings into a special class of government bonds, paying fixed rate of interest, so as to free up cash for the Need of the Government!

What could possibly go wrong?
Maybe, in the spirit of non-parochialism, diversification, and free global capital markets, they'd let us invest in govt bond issued by any country, with the required contribution decreased for bonds with greater yield (=same money going into your retirement fund)! 22% Greek bonds, here I come!
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Old 07-19-2011, 04:46 AM   #113
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Maybe, in the spirit of non-parochialism, diversification, and free global capital markets, they'd let us invest in govt bond issued by any country, with the required contribution decreased for bonds with greater yield (=same money going into your retirement fund)! 22% Greek bonds, here I come!

22% wow! Finally an answer to where you should I park my money, since stocks scare me and cash returns nothing.
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Old 07-19-2011, 04:59 AM   #114
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22% wow! Finally an answer to where you should I park my money, since stocks scare me and cash returns nothing.
"Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"...
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Old 07-19-2011, 06:30 AM   #115
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"Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"...
or bearing gilts
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