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Social Security: Re-starting SS at 70 y.o.?
03-26-2010, 09:07 AM
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#1
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,323
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Social Security: Re-starting SS at 70 y.o.?
Awhile ago there was great discussion about paying back the collected SS funds a couple months before 70 and re-starting your SS benefits. I just returned from the SS office this morning; and, when I asked if and when this will come into effect, nobody seemed to have any knowledge of this. In fact, the gals there at the desk--who deal with questions like this every day--say they haven't heard a thing about it and seemed shocked.
I asked how would I even know if the law was changed regarding paying back and re-starting at 70 being no longer allowed, and I was told it would be on the socialsecurity.gov website.
However, they, also, said that--even IF it became law--it would take a good year to go into effect. So, for now, I am at the "What? Me worry?" stage--unless someone on this board has better information than I got...other than the guy at the corner gas and grocery telling them.
Here's the link to Social Security:
Social Security Online - The Official Website of the U.S. Social Security Administration
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03-26-2010, 09:11 AM
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#2
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,004
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Orchid, I'm not surprised the folks at the local SS office gave you a blank look. There was a thread a while back that linked some source saying very few people had actually done the "payback/do over" at age 70. Not something a SS clerk might ever run across.
__________________
Numbers is hard
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03-26-2010, 09:32 AM
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#3
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo
Orchid, I'm not surprised the folks at the local SS office gave you a blank look. There was a thread a while back that linked some source saying very few people had actually done the "payback/do over" at age 70. Not something a SS clerk might ever run across.
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This is always something to consider. What if you had to battle with SS to get it done when you are age 70? Sounds like a huge hassle that (to me) might not be worth it.
But then, others have managed to pay back without any problems at all.
There are some aspects of SS, like this one, that remind me of gambling at the roulette wheel in a casino. Should I put my money on "take it at 62", "take it at 66", "take it at 70", or "take it at 62 and repay at 70"? Round and round and round she goes, and where she stops, nobody knows...
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Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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03-26-2010, 09:42 AM
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#4
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,821
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Agree w/ REWahoo. This forum represents a small minority of those taking SS. The people on this forum considering the SS payback are probably a small minority of the forum. The ones that actually do it are probably a small minority of those who ever considered it. So I would not expect it to even be on the radar screen of anyone in an SS office.
The thing that is unique about this, and makes it a bit different from the W2R casino analogy, is that it gives you a 'second chance'. If it didn't work out for you, pay it back and you get a 'do-over' on your decision. If it did work out, keep it.
Try that at the roulette wheel, and you will find yourself being escorted by a couple of mean-looking guys with no sense of humor!
-ERD50
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03-26-2010, 09:54 AM
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#5
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50
The thing that is unique about this, and makes it a bit different from the W2R casino analogy, is that it gives you a 'second chance'. If it didn't work out for you, pay it back and you get a 'do-over' on your decision. If it did work out, keep it.
Try that at the roulette wheel, and you will find yourself being escorted by a couple of mean-looking guys with no sense of humor!
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Maybe you are the one needing a "do-over" this morning, after re-reading my post that you thought you were responding to?
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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03-26-2010, 11:20 AM
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#6
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 26,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R
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Re-read it, even had another cup of coffee, and lunch, and I don't see where I would want to take a 'do-over' to my post?
It seems to me, the power of this 'buy-back' option is the ability to make a decision and get a 'do-over' option later. Those are rare in life. And they don't happen at the roulette wheel (hey, I bet on odd, but even came up - do-over! nope, can't do that!). So that's why I don't see how your casino analogy applies. I can see applying that to the straight "take it at 62", "take it at 66", "take it at 70" decision w/o any buy back option, but that was not the topic of the OP.
I hope you are not taking this as confrontational, I'm just trying to get info to the OP and any readers. They will make their own choice, including the choice to not even consider it, but I for one am glad that someone brought up the 'do-over' option in this forum, and I will take it into consideration when the time comes.
-ERD50
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03-26-2010, 11:33 AM
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#7
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 26
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When you consider the size of the re-pay (max is about 2200/mo so about 132,000) and you'd be getting roughly 800 more per month so you'd need to live at least 14 or 15 years (depending on the cost of money) to get a payback. I'm not that confident in the government or my health.
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03-26-2010, 11:43 AM
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#8
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,318
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Orchid: your post sounds like you asked them when this would become available. It is not something new that will be available in the future. It is an existing feature of SS - you can "reapply" at any time (not just when you approach 70). Look through the earlier threads and you will find the form number of the re-application.
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Idleness is fatal only to the mediocre -- Albert Camus
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03-26-2010, 11:44 AM
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#9
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billin
When you consider the size of the re-pay (max is about 2200/mo so about 132,000) and you'd be getting roughly 800 more per month so you'd need to live at least 14 or 15 years (depending on the cost of money) to get a payback. I'm not that confident in the government or my health.
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And if the higher payout kicks you into a higher tax bracket or results in more of your SS payment being taxable, it may make it even worse.
Still, it's a nice option to have if you're in a position to run the numbers at 70, gauge your health and tax situation, and have the choice.
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03-26-2010, 01:06 PM
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#10
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,151
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One of the articles I've read concerning when to start collecting SS mentioned that local offices would commonly be unaware of the provision and you'll need to get in touch with someone "upstairs." They also mentioned that it would take SS several months to start your new, higher checks after you pay back so you'd need to be prepared to go without for a few months. I'll post the link if I can find it later......
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03-26-2010, 01:09 PM
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#11
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,151
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Exactly.
I've started my SS (at 62) and if certain circumstances play out I may pay back and restart. But I won't know for several years and it will depend on whether I and/or DW are still alive and our health and outlook regarding longevity at that time in the future.
It's not a matter of starting SS at 62 and already knowing you'll pay back and restart. It's a matter of starting SS at 62, banking the money conservatively and determing whether to pay back or not several years down the road when you know your health status as a 66 - 70 yr old.
I have no idea what I'll wind up doing. Time will tell. I'm just leaving the door open by collecting now and managing my finances so that pay back is possible if that path looks opportunistic 4 - 8 yrs from now.
It sure would be nice if, at 66 to 70 yrs old, I'm so darn healthy I want to buy an annuity (which paying back SS amounts to).
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03-26-2010, 01:27 PM
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#12
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,684
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One exercise I did to try to understand the "when to start" question is as follows:
Used the downloadable calculator to estimate each of our SS benefits starting at 62, 63, 64 ... 70. For the two of us this gives 81 different combinations of start years. DW is subject to the WEP, hence the requirement for the calculator.
Plugged all 81 different combinations into FireCalc. Yep, 81 runs. On the Investigate tab I set FireCalc to report the spending level that could be supported. The rest of the data is kinda static, but our current numbers.
The spending levels varied only by a couple of percentage points. Turns out that for our cases, the earliest we hit the maximum was each starting at 66. We are different ages, but I did not bother with any of the exotic plans like spousal benefits or stopping and restarting.
Haven't tried to analyze whatever tax implications might apply.
May have concluded it doesn't make too much difference, just looking at the numbers and assuming we'll live to >70.
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03-26-2010, 01:51 PM
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#13
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gone traveling
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 3,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo
Orchid, I'm not surprised the folks at the local SS office gave you a blank look. There was a thread a while back that linked some source saying very few people had actually done the "payback/do over" at age 70. Not something a SS clerk might ever run across.
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OAG over at BH's did the "exercise". He had a lot of problems in the repayment, and even getting correct tax forms after he paid everything back at age 70.
According to an article I read last year (unreferenced) only a few hundred of the many millions receiving SS did this option, so I understand why it would be unknown to most SS office folks.
I'm not doing the option, but just take advantage of getting SS early (by a spousal claim at age 66) and then file as normal at age 70. I'll still be ahead of the game compared to most...
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03-26-2010, 02:28 PM
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#14
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rescueme
I'm not doing the option, but just take advantage of getting SS early (by a spousal claim at age 66) and then file as normal at age 70. I'll still be ahead of the game compared to most...
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Assuming you don't get hit by a truck RV bus in the interim.
__________________
Numbers is hard
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03-26-2010, 02:41 PM
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#15
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo
Assuming you don't get hit by a truck RV bus in the interim.
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Yep.... And that's why I went ahead and started mine. DW is ineligible to collect survivor benefits from mine (GPO) and her own is near zero (WEP), so as some longevity protection for her, I'm collecting and banking. If I toss in my cards early, she'd at least have that. OTOH, if I'm "Mr Healthy" at 66 - 70, I'll consider the annuity equivalent of repaying SS. But we'll see...... Leaving the doors open here......
If you can afford to wait, the whole point of starting early seems to be the advantage of knowing what your health is 4 - 8 years beyond 62 and then deciding whether to re-do or not.
To tell ya the truth, I'm not looking forward to making that decision. It's likely not to be clearcut.
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03-26-2010, 02:45 PM
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#16
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo
Assuming you don't get hit by a truck RV bus in the interim.
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Well, if you get hit by a bus between ages 62 and 70, you're pretty much out of luck anyway, right? Can't take it with you. Sure, you never got to spend the money but you'll never know that.
Of course (being single) I have no idea what impact that might have on spousal SS checks after you are gone. But either way, you're dead and buried which is not my idea of a really great way to spend one's later years.
Wow, this post is ridiculously gloomy!! Sorry 'bout that.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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03-26-2010, 02:52 PM
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#17
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas: No Country for Old Men
Posts: 50,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2R
Well, if you get hit by a bus between ages 62 and 70, you're pretty much out of luck anyway, right?
Of course (being single) I have no idea what impact that might have..
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Single or not, the impact would be messy, very messy...
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Numbers is hard
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03-26-2010, 02:56 PM
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#18
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,473
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Wow, that is even more gloomy and ghoulish than my post! Just be sure to hose off the streets...
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.
Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
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03-26-2010, 03:06 PM
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#19
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
Yep.... And that's why I went ahead and started mine. DW is ineligible to collect survivor benefits from mine (GPO) and her own is near zero (WEP), so as some longevity protection for her, I'm collecting and banking. If I toss in my cards early, she'd at least have that. OTOH, if I'm "Mr Healthy" at 66 - 70, I'll consider the annuity equivalent of repaying SS. But we'll see...... Leaving the doors open here......
If you can afford to wait, the whole point of starting early seems to be the advantage of knowing what your health is 4 - 8 years beyond 62 and then deciding whether to re-do or not.
To tell ya the truth, I'm not looking forward to making that decision. It's likely not to be clearcut.
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This is exactly what DW and I will do when she turns 62 (our situation is reversed). It is not likely that we will need/want the "annuity" at 70 but who knows.
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Idleness is fatal only to the mediocre -- Albert Camus
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03-26-2010, 04:21 PM
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#20
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rescueme
OAG over at BH's did the "exercise". He had a lot of problems in the repayment, and even getting correct tax forms after he paid everything back at age 70.
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Could you provide a link to this?
IIRC, OAG (assuming it's the same OAG) did a payback and restart at age 67-68. He posted extensively about it when he was here at this forum. I don't recall him mentioning any serious problems. In fact, I thought he said it was pretty straightforward.
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