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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-25-2005, 06:03 PM   #121
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

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I have found a very effective way of dealing with off leash dogs when bicycling or walking my own dogs.* I bring treats for all.*
I like your solution best, Martha. Wish I'd thought of it!
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-25-2005, 07:37 PM   #122
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

Laurance:

I guess I steped over my own emotions and tripped. I suffered through the entire INS process with my wife, whom I met when we both attended graduate school together, for six years.*



She is a licensed Medical Doctor and also has a degree in Biochemisrty.* Even though we were married, (I am an American Citizen ) and have kids who were all born in the US, the INS managed to make her green card and application for US citizenship nothing short of hell.* bear in mind I am a lawyer duly licensed in three jursidictions, and had the services of an Immigration lawyer to assist me in her petitions.

Contrast the fairness of my experiance of following the law and complying with the rules with the current and past amnessty being used by the likes of McCain, who I have met several times, to pander to the cheap labor campaign contributors.

The most important right each of us as citizens has is for sale. This, and the reconquista totally disgust me.* I am the son of immigrants, and I am married to one.* I am pro- managed and merit based immigration. I believe illegals steal soverign rights from those who earned them legitimately. I believe Mexico is exporting their problems into this country to avoid dealing with the inequities of their corrupt class system and making each American tax payer subsidize this corruption through welafre and infrstructrral strain, especially in the south west.

Pero, Solo los patrones teine los llaves a la ley, y somos los nuevo campasinos del Estados Unidos....
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-25-2005, 07:42 PM   #123
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

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Laurance:

I guess I steped over my own emotions and tripped. I suffered through the entire INS process with my wife, whom I met when we both attended graduate school together, for six years.*



She is a licensed Medical Doctor and also has a degree in Biochemisrty.* Even though we were married, (I am an American Citizen ) and have kids who were all born in the US, the INS managed to make her green card and application for US citizenship nothing short of hell.* bear in mind I am a lawyer duly licensed in three jursidictions, and had the services of an Immigration lawyer to assist me in her petitions.

Contrast the fairness of my experiance of following the law and complying with the rules with the current and past amnsesty being used by the likes of McCain, who I have meet several times, to pander to the cheap labor campaign contributors.

The most important right each of us as citizens has is for sale. This, and the reconquista totally disgust me.* I am the son of immigrants, and I am married to one.* I am pro- managed and merit based immigration.
And I am for slamming and locking the gates. Do we really need more people? I think not.

JG
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-25-2005, 07:53 PM   #124
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

Citizenship is an earned privelege, not a political bargaining chip. Closing the gates makes better sense than an open border without military protection.
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-25-2005, 08:01 PM   #125
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

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I like your solution best, Martha.* Wish I'd thought of it!
Works for me!

JG
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-25-2005, 08:17 PM   #126
 
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

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And I am for slamming and locking the gates.* Do we really need more people?* I think not.

JG
Unfortunately our whole economy is built on growth. If we don't have more people, then our economy tanks like Japan's has for the last 20 years. We have to have some new folks working here to pay for your (and Mine) Social Security.
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-25-2005, 08:29 PM   #127
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

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Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
Unfortunately our whole economy is built on growth. If we don't have more people, then our economy tanks like Japan's has for the last 20 years. We have to have some new folks working here to pay for your (and Mine) Social Security.
Don't agree at all. Lock the door. Close the borders. Immigration policy
is a joke along with the DOHS. Just more cost and red tape piling up.
Shut it down and turn it off.

JG
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-25-2005, 09:06 PM   #128
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

Lex, I see your point, no way of mincing words, that sucks! Most of us who are multi-generational citizens take citizenship for granted. I am a direct decendant of a colonel in George Washington's army, but I don't feel that gives me any more right to be here than a man or woman who took the oath of citizenship yesterday. Those who break the rules to get here undercut those who played by the rules, it's true. I was just speaking up for the friends and family of mine who did play by the rules, and may not have as much of a pedigree as you or your wife, but still do valuable services (Policeman, Nurse, Accountant, small business owner just in the family). But I guess you are doing the same thing.

JG, are you saying no more immigration, legal or illegal? First off, that's a pipe dream. If we can't search 1% of the cargo ships coming into port for WMD, how would we ever stop illeagal immigration?

I'm with CT on this one we need some immigration. Lex said merit based managed immigration, I don't know how we'd define merit, but if we eliminated some of the hell of the immigration process Lex referred to, raised fees for immigrating to reflect true costs, and came down hard on the scumbag companies who hire illegals because they can pay them below minimum wage, and we'd have a good start.
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-25-2005, 09:19 PM   #129
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

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I am a direct decendant of a colonel in George Washington's army,
Whoa! As for me, proud to be a mut
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-25-2005, 09:34 PM   #130
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

Hey, that was a long time ago, there is plenty of mut in me at this point! I wasn't trying to toot my own horn, I should have just said "came over in the sixteen hundreds", but the above was more colorful, and I try never to be bland! I said try, stop laughing
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-25-2005, 10:19 PM   #131
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

My Mother's family were from the border between Italy and Switzerland.* I expect my ancestors were herding goats in the Italian Alps three hundred years ago, but it was steady work. Perhaps they were the purveyors of fine cheese to the renaisance artists of Milan and Florence.*

My late dad was born in Palermo and could have have easily scared any ordinary mafia type.* He got to the states as a kid in tow with my Grand parents.* His fluency in Italian served him well with the OSS. Though he joined and deployed from Fort Riley, KS, his combat readiness report was hand selected by senior Allied Comand staff, who pulled him out of the ranks and sent him and the handfull of Sicilan - Americans back to the old country to serve out of unifrom, with no Geneva rights and a bullet and shallow grave courtesy of the SS a more likely fate than a ride back home on a liberty ship as a go between to members of the partisan resistance during WWII.* He secured many of the survey reports dispatched in advance of Pattons landing at Sicily, and helped develop the initial reports used for route selection prior to Patton's landing. Had he been "official" he would have left a few decorations for his six sons to rember him by.* I figure he and my four uncles that fought along with him in WWII, though all born in Palermo,* each earned their US citzenship. You never said anything bad about this country before any of them unless you wanted to lose some teeth. 8)
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-25-2005, 11:00 PM   #132
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
Unfortunately our whole economy is built on growth. If we don't have more people, then our economy tanks like Japan's has for the last 20 years. We have to have some new folks working here to pay for your (and Mine) Social Security.
Cut-Throat, this is commonly said, but I believe there is a flaw in the argument.* Many of these immigrants will cost more, over at least 20 or 30 years, than they will contibute. How many illegals work off the books, and thus pay no SS tax? In fact, many of these illegals and their descendants may never pay back their costs to our society when realistically computed.

As for Japan's problems, I am not so sure that it is better to be an American than to be a Japanese, or that their approach to the demographic squeeze is necessarily inferior to ours. True, their so called demographic problem is much worse than ours. But they seem to be doing ok. Remember, you drive a Lexus, not a Caddy. And I drive an Acura, not a Mustang* GM's debt is junk, not Toyota's or Honda's. And 50 years from now, Japan will still be Japanese, whereas America will look and feel very different from today, as will western Europe.

Where is it coded in nature that retirement benefits can only come from a tax on labor? What would happen if more and more tasks were done by robots? Would people then just starve?

IMO, we should carefully screen immigrants, and admit only well educated, non-criminal healthy applicants.Then we can supplement retirement from general revenues. So many poor decisions are made not because they are less costly, or better, but because the costs on one side are clear, whereas the costs on another side can be fobbed off. Not escaped, just hidden.

Democracies prefer "solutions" that load costs onto other accounting entities. So we get low cost labor for agriculture and packing plants, but social services in California threaten to bankrupt the state. Some costs land on individuals, in the form of crime, inflated housing prices, or poor and or dangerous environments for their children. In fact, a parent in LA with an English speaking kid better plan on ponying up for private school tuition, if he hopes his child will get a first world education.

Other costs are loaded onto African Americans, who can least afford to assume them. They will experience more poverty caused by greater competition at the bottom of the job market. This then leads to more crime, more of everything bad, for them and for the rest of us.

M
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-26-2005, 07:10 AM   #133
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

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Originally Posted by HaHa
Cut-Throat, this is commonly said, but I believe there is a flaw in the argument.* Many of these immigrants will cost more, over at least 20 or 30 years, than they will contibute. How many illegals work off the books, and thus pay no SS tax? In fact, many of these illegals and their descendants may never pay back their costs to our society when realistically computed.

As for Japan's problems, I am not so sure that it is better to be an American than to be a Japanese, or that their approach to the demographic squeeze is necessarily inferior to ours. True, their so called demographic problem is much worse than ours. But they seem to be doing ok. Remember, you drive a Lexus, not a Caddy. And I drive an Acura, not a Mustang* GM's debt is junk, not Toyota's or Honda's. And 50 years from now, Japan will still be Japanese, whereas America will look and feel very different from today, as will western Europe.

Where is it coded in nature that retirement benefits can only come from a tax on labor? What would happen if more and more tasks were done by robots? Would people then just starve?

IMO, we should carefully screen immigrants, and admit only well educated, non-criminal healthy applicants.Then we can supplement retirement from general revenues. So many poor decisions are made not because they are less costly, or better, but because the costs on one side are clear, whereas the costs on another side can be fobbed off. Not escaped, just hidden.

Democracies prefer "solutions" that load costs onto other accounting entities. So we get low cost labor for agriculture and packing plants, but social services in California threaten to bankrupt the state. Some costs land on individuals, in the form of crime, inflated housing prices, or poor and or dangerous environments for their children. In fact, a parent in LA with an English speaking kid better plan on ponying up for private school tuition, if he hopes his child will get a first world education.

Other costs are loaded onto African Americans, who can least afford to assume them. They will experience more poverty caused by greater competition at the bottom of the job market. This then leads to more crime, more of everything bad, for them and for the rest of us.

M
Look, you can debate this stuff all day. Shut immigration off 100%. Then, deal with the
people that are here. You don't need any more and this would stabilize the problem. Much easiier to deal with. There would be more jobs for less people. Unemployment would come down, for example. Also, the
"Mission" would be clear and understandable, not PC tweaked and
spun groupspeak. This is only my opinion and will never see daylight.
Instead we will get more liberal nonsense while anyone
who doesn't mind getting their shoes damp is welcomed
with open arms.

JG
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-26-2005, 07:33 AM   #134
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

I'm still with the Statue of Liberty - we want the uneducated, poor, and hungry. Preferrably healthy. That way - a reasonable percentage can become 'Millionaires Next Door' and keep the residents on their toes.

The half full full/half empty debate over costs is being played out - down the road in 'Vietnamese Village'. New businesses and commerce in a depressed area - vs social services costs.

The debate started with Ben Franklin - lamenting the inlux of French after the War (French Acadians??).
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-26-2005, 07:50 AM   #135
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

JG:

Move the clock forward by thirty years. *Eventually, when it is far too late, and America's standard of living has sunk to the same level as what we termed last century as the 3rd world, at least some of the various military Juntas that eventually control the population, unencumbered by the will of the governed since there is no uniform culture, value or political ethic, will not only close the border100%, but, if the scenario sets up as it has many times before in history begin the process of genocide to reclaim what it believes it has lost the generation before. *You don't believe this can happen? Its been a common situation in South America, parts of Asia, and throughout Africa. *I suggest that once a country dilutes its values and soverignty, and becomes a refugee camp without a border, there can be no rule of law, and stage is set for rule by thuggery, seige, and constant military power struggle. ER would consist of the last weeks prior to death by starvation, execution, or disease.

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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-26-2005, 08:00 AM   #136
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

Duh?

I'm with Thom Friedman on this one - it's not a fixed pie.

The whole trick is to make the world safe for Coka Cola, Walmart, McDonald's AND credit cards - So they can have all the fun we are.

Heh, heh, heh, heh

For as long as I can remember - the world has been going to hell. First heard about it in the barbershop as a little kid.

Still with De Gaul as my guiding light.
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-26-2005, 01:05 PM   #137
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

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Instead we will get more liberal nonsense while anyone
who doesn't mind getting their shoes damp is welcomed
with open arms.JG
Well John, your heart is in the right place, but your grasp on the facts is a bit loose. President Bush is one of the biggest proponents of open borders with Mexico. For reasons that must exist, but are completely baffling to me. The chance that even 10% of these people will ever vote Republican is quite small. Maybe he thinks that Mexicans are the same as the anti-Castro Cuban Republicans in Miami?

Ha
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-26-2005, 01:11 PM   #138
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

Maybe he's thinking loooong term. I saw some demographics showing that as you move from 1st generation to 2nd, 3rd etc. Mexican American, the more likely you are to vote Republican.
Can speculate on reasons, but not sure any would be right.
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-26-2005, 03:44 PM   #139
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

Maybe he's looking for voters for Jenna...?

You know, keep the monarchy alive?
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees
Old 05-26-2005, 03:54 PM   #140
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Re: Social Status of Early Retirees

At the (admittedly slight) risk of bringing this thread back to where it started...

Occupation (marketing): 63rd
Education (MBA) 99th
Income: 97th
Wealth: 93rd
Average: 88th

So far so good. But because everything's "relative" to one's relatives, I thought I'd see how I compared with my father (VERY smart guy orphaned in the depression and unschooled as a result):

Occupation (welder): 39th
Education: 7th
Income: 38th
Wealth: 85th
Average: 42

All things considered, I'd say he's done a lot better than I have, relatively speaking. I KNOW he worked a lot harder in the process and, if we consider service in Korea and Vietnam, he contributed a heck of a lot more to this country, too.

Not bad for an uneducated, unmonied immigrant who started life speaking German as his first language.

Caroline



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