Spend 'til The End by Laurence Kotlikoff & Scott Burns

Gotta give those guys credit. Whenever they sell a book, they've succeeded in getting someone to pay them for advertising their planning software. Guys that smart should be wealthy enough to retire! ;)
 
Gotta give those guys credit. Whenever they sell a book, they've succeeded in getting someone to pay them for advertising their planning software. Guys that smart should be wealthy enough to retire! ;)


Scott Burns is also pretty blatant in his newspaper columns. He seems to plug his books or the software at least once per month if not more frequently. He is pretty good about not plugging DFA funds or his investment advisory company that uses them.

He does do a pretty good job of encouraging people to not have a financial advisor and stressing how simple it is for people to do it themselves. Even with that, he still attracts clients with significant assets to his firm and charges them around 0.5% of assets and puts them into DFA funds with higher expenses than Vanguard index funds. I don't have any idea if "other services" are provided but there isn't anything mentioned on the website that I've stumbled upon.
 
What a great book.

Had some very interesting insights such as good sensitivity analyses around roth vs traditional IRAs, how to think about income and social security in making asset allocation decisions.

One of the problems with the software is that it automatically "smooths" my consumption so that spending is much higher after 75 -- maybe thats because of medical expenses, but I haven't figured it out yet.

Sales pitch didn't bother me -- happy to pay a one time fee for superior insights.
 
Thought that this book was a waste of time. Just another commercial for their software.
 
Finished the book. I concluded I knew everything they were preaching. However for someone being clueless it wouldn't be a bad read.


Peace O0
 
Finished the book. I concluded I knew everything they were preaching. However for someone being clueless it wouldn't be a bad read.


Peace O0

I agree - I'd give it a 'C' overall (aka wait for the library's copy). Of interest were the comments in the last chapter on the relative newness of behavioral finance and how what they have developed thus far will be improved upon. Still didn't provide an overall roadmap -- maybe that's in the software.

-- Rita
 
Thought that this book was a waste of time. Just another commercial for their software.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Dismissing the book as "another commercial for their software" is intellectually lazy and hypercritical IMHO so in an attempt to put some objectivity to it:

ESPlanner is mentioned 9 times in 300 pages, and 3 of them are in the Intro or Epilogue, so 6 times in the body of the book. In 7 cases they do no more than mention they used ESPlanner as the tool used to calculate numbers presented, that's it. On pgs 12-14 there is a section titled "Full Disclosure" in which they describe ESPlanner - I would consider that the extent of the pitch.

On the other hand as you might expect, Social Security is mentioned over 100 times, often in great detail - so I guess you could more readily describe the book as 'another commercial for Social Security.' I still think it's a good read (among others) for those who fall between financially naive and expert.
 
No, it wasn't intended as such but I suppose everything is open for interpretation. ;)
Sorry, I have discussed purchasing and using ESPlanner Plus on this forum and since you're a frequent visitor I (incorrectly) assumed you knew and so I was anticipating a reply of "so the book worked as an ad in your case." Guess I overthought that one, wouldn't be the first time I've outsmarted myself...

I was already leaning toward buying ESPP and indeed did buy it when I finished the book. I thought the book was very good, but not my favorite (Four Pillars is so far). I also think ESP/ESPP are well worth $199 considering the size of almost any portfolio here, but ESP is certainly not perfect either. I rely on my own spreadsheets primarily, but I find ESPP can handle some things I can't and model alternatives more quickly/comprehensively. My 2¢ (and no more)...and again sorry I read too much into your post.
 
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I've gone back and forth on buying ESPlanner. When I heard they were putting out a book, I decided to wait on the assumption that it will go into a lot of detail on how consumption smoothing works. That will let me know if I think extending their theories to my personal data is worthwhile. My congential cheapness is having me get the book through the library (not in yet) because I'm sure I won't want to keep it as a personal reference.
 
I've gone back and forth on buying ESPlanner. When I heard they were putting out a book, I decided to wait on the assumption that it will go into a lot of detail on how consumption smoothing works. That will let me know if I think extending their theories to my personal data is worthwhile. My congential cheapness is having me get the book through the library (not in yet) because I'm sure I won't want to keep it as a personal reference.
FWIW...
Consumption Smoothing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ESPlanner: Making it Simple
 
Thanks for the links. I've also been to the ESPlanner website which has other sales stuff. I did the online example but wasn't overwhelmed -- just interested. I'm probably a sale later on this year. The big question I have is what will it really tell me versus FIRECalc since retirement is almost here.
I use FIRECALC, ESPP and my own spreadsheets, nice to have more than one "opinion." I would hate to find out my spreadsheets were in error 15 years into retirement when a $199 software pkg might have highlighted my mistake - there's frugal and then there's stupid.

As you know, there is no perfect number so the value of all the calculations and planning is simply a roadmap for spending, saving, investing and planning. All any of us can do is plan based on whatever conditions/assumptions we see ahead (projected longevity, current resources/stability, future returns, future inflation, future taxes, the healthcare costs, the outlook for Soc Sec/Medicare, etc.) and add whatever margin of safety we're comfortable with (if not built into the above assumptions). No plan or person can predict all the variables so no plan or person can give you a 100% probability of success. In the end it's an individual 'leap of faith' we all have to make with (hopefully) some contingency plans at the ready. I wish us all the best of luck...
 
I use FIRECALC, ESPP and my own spreadsheets, nice to have more than one "opinion." I would hate to find out my spreadsheets were in error 15 years into retirement when a $199 software pkg might have highlighted my mistake - there's frugal and then there's stupid.

As you know, there is no perfect number so the value of all the calculations and planning is simply a roadmap for spending, saving, investing and planning. All any of us can do is plan based on whatever conditions/assumptions we see ahead (projected longevity, current resources/stability, future returns, future inflation, future taxes, the healthcare costs, the outlook for Soc Sec/Medicare, etc.) and add whatever margin of safety we're comfortable with (if not built into the above assumptions). No plan or person can predict all the variables so no plan or person can give you a 100% probability of success. In the end it's an individual 'leap of faith' we all have to make with (hopefully) some contingency plans at the ready. I wish us all the best of luck...
Damn! I was hoping to get all this for $200.
 
This looks like it would be good for someone still in the planning stage of retirement. I question its value to someone already retired. I would think increased health care costs as you age would have some impact. It would be interesting to know how he handles that but not $199 worth.
 
Damn! I was hoping to get all this for $200.
Sorry, there's such a wide range of people here you really never know who you are talking to, or who is reading...
 
I use FIRECALC, ESPP and my own spreadsheets, nice to have more than one "opinion." I would hate to find out my spreadsheets were in error 15 years into retirement when a $199 software pkg might have highlighted my mistake - there's frugal and then there's stupid.

Question for you: Do you think you might be getting overly-impressed with the bells, whistles and reams of data outputs?

The detailed plan (with Monte Carlo analysis) is 131 pages...I like that kind of detail.

I'm not sure a Monte Carlo analysis is appropriate for a retirement analysis. I don't think the combination of stock, fixed and inflation are random, but are influenced by past events. That is why I keep coming back to FireCalc - it just reports what would have happened in the past. To the degree that the worst of the future will be roughly in line with the worst of the past, there seems to be some value there. BTW, I have no reason to think that the future won't be worse - so I go for 100% success to my max lifetime, and hedge that a bit. No lifetime 4% SWR for me at 53 YO ( note - my 'spend' is ~ 4% now, but have not started collecting my non-cola pension, or SS, or the small cola pension that my wife will probably get).

I agree that it is good to get a few diff opinions. FireCalc could have errors. I'm not convinced that I need to spend $199 to do that. Several diff SS models, and back-of-the-envelope calculations indicate the 4% number is reasonable for 95% success for 30 years, and closer to 2% for a 'forever' portfolio.

Hey, but if you spent the $199 and are telling us that it agrees, then THANK YOU for one more data point! ;)

-ERD50
 
Question for you: Do you think you might be getting overly-impressed with the bells, whistles and reams of data outputs?
Answer for you: Not at all.
Hey, but if you spent the $199 and are telling us that it agrees, then THANK YOU for one more data point! ;)
Glad I could help.
 
Garbage In, Garbage Out?

I have now finished reading the library's copy. :D It was not wasted time, but I would not put the book on my must read list either.

I have a number of "issues" with the book that I have not yet resolved in my mind. My first issue, is "consumption smoothing" the right goal? I certainly don't want my lifestyle to decline. However, would I really want to have the exact same standard of living for the rest of my life? I think an improving standard of living might be nicer. Though if I had successfully resisted "improving" my standard of living for the past three years, I might be retired now, which would certainly be an improvement in my living standard!

However, even assuming "consumption smoothing" is the right goal, can ESPlanner really do that? There is an old computer science saying "Garbage In, Garbage Out" which basically means that even with a perfect computer program, if you feed it bad data, you will get junk results.

ESPlanner is supposed to use lots of data we could never process by hand. However, so much of it is unknown, that much of the input data must be junk. Vanguard's calculator tells me there is a 15% chance that my wife will still be alive 60 years from now. There is no way ESPlanner can realistically project many rather critical values such as tax rates, and health cost inflation, sixty years out and get meaningful results.

I'm also a bit concerned that I seemed to notice more "errors" than I usually notice in the book. If makes me fear the errors that I didn't notice!

The "error" that most sticks in my mind is their analysis on buying versus renting in CA when the cost of renting is significantly lower than buying. Part of their text claims that if you buy, and the value of real estate declines, you win because your property taxes decline. I know CA has funky laws, but at least in my state, if all houses in a town go up or down in value the tax rate goes up or down about the same amount leaving everyone paying about the same amount. If you buy a cheaper house, you will have lower taxes. However, if everyone in town's appraisal goes down, the town's budget doesn't move, and thus the tax rate goes up to compensate. Their analysis seems to have treated "the value of the house goes down" as equivalent to "the owner moved to a cheaper house." The only thing that might save their analysis is CA's prop 13 which definitely favors long-term buy and hold residents, assuming it is never repealed.

On another topic, did I misread, or did the book imply that in 2010 anyone can roll their 401k into a Roth IRA? Is it true? I was under the impression that I have to quit my job to roll my 401k into an IRA, and that the special 2010 Roth conversion rules did not change that restriction.

Bottom line, I expect the book and ESPlanner to be very popular among those people which it says are liquidity constrained, and therefore should not currently be saving. ESPlanner will also be popular with the "want to cross check my plans with every tool out there" crowd. [:rant:Which might get me to buy the software. :rant:] However, I would be very hesitant to decrease my savings, or increase my spending, based only on ESPlanner advice.
 
I am reading the book right now. I am not loking for more religion, just for viewpoints. And K's vewpoints are definitely not just one more iteration of the Bernstein/ Bogle mantra.

I say read it, on the principle that serious ideas from a serious expert are worth knowing, especially when they are different from what you already know.

The writing style is a little preachy and pop, which I imagine to be the journalist Burns' influence because I have read books by Laurence alone and they are not written this way.

Ha
 
On another topic, did I misread, or did the book imply that in 2010 anyone can roll their 401k into a Roth IRA? Is it true? I was under the impression that I have to quit my job to roll my 401k into an IRA, and that the special 2010 Roth conversion rules did not change that restriction.
The issue of rolling your 401k without quitting your job, depends on the rules of your particular 401k. Check with you plan administer. In my case, and many others, after attaining a certain age, you can roll part of the 401k to an IRA, while retaining part within the company's plan. Once you have it into a traditional IRA, in 2010, the cap was removed for means testing to allow you to pay the taxes and move your money from the IRA into a Roth. That provision expires after 2010. Also as part of that process, you are able to defer payment of those taxes to spread equally over 2011 and 2012, that would be due to that movement into the Roth from the IRA.
All of this is subject to whoever gets elected, leaving this provision alone, and not canceling it. Another reason to vote Rep. >:D
 
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