SS Windfall Elimination Provision for early retiree

[Sue J]

I checked it out at Boomer Benefits
https://boomerbenefits.com/can-i-get...ugh-my-spouse/

Scroll down to “Medicare for non-working spouse”

[Teacher Terry]

Wow I learned something new today.

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan I think it will be around for awhile yet. There are still thousands of us who have worked overseas who are subject to WEP. Even me and my wife’s UK SS will cause our US SS to be reduced by the WEP since the UK SS is based on a person’s work record. (If you have worked for 40 quarters in the UK you get the minimum UK SS).

+
There are bunch of reasons besides the Fed workers for WEP to remain around forever.

[Telly]

WEP, and its spousal alternate GPO (Government Pension Offset) will probably be in existence forever. In TX, 96% of the school systems do not pay into SS, so WEP is a conversational football that gets kicked around often by the older employees. The depth of conversation is often: WEP is unfair!!! (it's a very short conversation ). From long ago, DW has enough quarters in for her own SS account, and will be affected by WEP due to her non-SS work pension. And if she receives SS benefits via my account, she will be affected by GPO. Neither of us have a problem with it because of what it addresses. Meanwhile, some in the "to be WEP'd" crowd, are convinced that the US congress will soon see the light and "correct this injustice" (their words). T'aint gonna happen. SS would need a new source of revenue in the billions to handle the halt of WEP and GPO. If a person is slowly drowning, throw him a cement block


EDIT - Sunset, my post was NOT a response to your post. I am a very slow typer, and when I started, your post was not there.

[donheff]

I just read an article that explains that you can qualify for free Part A Medicare based on a spouse’s earned qualification. Failure to qualify for Medicare would be a scary situation. I’m a CSRS retiree. We can carry our Federal health insurance into retirement but also joined Medicare many decades back so we also qualify for free Part A. Some local governments never joined so those effected (often teachers) don’t get Medicare or SS. They rely on their governments honoring their pension obligations and retiree health insurance guarantees. That’s something to keep in mind when debt laden state and local systems look at cutbacks affecting old age pensioners.

[CRLLS]

I was just reading about the Teachers retirement system in Illinois. According to them, anyone can participate in Medicare Part B. There is no requirement for paying into SS etc for 40 quarters. To be eligible for Medicare Part A, one must meet the 40 quarters in SS OR have a spouse who has paid into

Quote:

Medicare If you are eligible for Social Security coverage on your own work record, you will receive Medicare Part A coverage at age 65. You may have Medicare Part A coverage (hospital insurance) at age 65 if your spouse is at least age 62 and has worked in Social Security-covered employment long enough to be insured, even if your spouse is still working. Anyone may enroll in Medicare Part B (medical insurance); there is no work requirement.

[NoiseBoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckanut WEP is simply an equalizing rule that keeps Higher income earners who did not pay much into SS from collecting a benefit as though they were low income earners. ( SS pays a bigger % to low income people, that's the social part of Social Security.) If WEP did not exist, people who contributed little to SS would be collecting a much bigger portion of the contributions than those who have contributed most or all of their lives. It's really a matter of simple fairness.

This is the most succinct description of WEP that I have read. I am impacted by WEP because both my student job, and then my civil service job, at my alma mater didn't pay Soc Sec taxes and my civil service job was covered by a State pension plan. It took me a while to understand WEP, but now that I do, I defend it on social media whenever a teacher friend starts to cry about not getting their full Soc Sec benefit. FWIW I hope to have 27 years of substantial earnings when I retire.

To the OP; the reason you see articles warning people about WEP is that there doesn't seem to be any connection between the various systems before retirement such that the Soc Sec benefits projections do not automatically know who is impacted by WEP.

In my state there are several large pension plans that cover K-12 teachers and many state university employees which do not include paying Soc Sec taxes so WEP will be around for a very long time. I also feel that step #1 in fixing my state's pension woes is to have all workers pay into Soc Sec.

[steelyman]

Complicating things are situations where government employee contributions through payroll taxes change. The payroll (FICA) tax includes a SS component and a Medicare component.

In my situation, neither were taken from pay but at some point later on in my career, employees like me who hadn’t contributed to Medicare were given the choice to opt in going forward (newer employees were paying in to Medicare by default).

So the choice was to determine if you wanted Medicare. People who had paid from some other employment may have earned enough credits to be close to 40 quarters but not quite there. In that case, they could consider getting the additional needed credits through outside work or opting in through payroll.

I attended a very worthwhile seminar that included a discussion covering this choice. A statement by one of the speakers stuck in mind: “Once you have the 40 quarters, you’re in. You can’t over-qualify for Medicare”. That is, there is no extra benefit.

[Chuckanut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telly WEP, and its spousal alternate GPO (Government Pension Offset) will probably be in existence forever. In TX, 96% of the school systems do not pay into SS, so WEP is a conversational football that gets kicked around often by the older employees. The depth of conversation is often: WEP is unfair!!! (it's a very short conversation ).

As a former teacher I've always been embarrassed by teachers who claimed WEP was unfair to them.

If I was a public employee I would not make a long-term career working for any government agency that did not participate in SS.

[Teacher Terry]

When I worked for the state we would sometimes hire people in their 50’s who had always paid into SS and didn’t know about WEP. Unless you want to work until 80 it would be a big deal to them so I would explain that getting vested at 5 years with the state is a bad idea unless you have a lot of years of substantial income. After they checked it out most would leave. The district manager told me to stop telling people and I said no. It’s too important a issue.

[Chuckanut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoiseBoy This is the most succinct description of WEP that I have read. I am impacted by WEP because both my student job, and then my civil service job, at my alma mater didn't pay Soc Sec taxes and my civil service job was covered by a State pension plan. It took me a while to understand WEP, but now that I do, I defend it on social media whenever a teacher friend starts to cry about not getting their full Soc Sec benefit. FWIW I hope to have 27 years of substantial earnings when I retire. To the OP; the reason you see articles warning people about WEP is that there doesn't seem to be any connection between the various systems before retirement such that the Soc Sec benefits projections do not automatically know who is impacted by WEP. In my state there are several large pension plans that cover K-12 teachers and many state university employees which do not include paying Soc Sec taxes so WEP will be around for a very long time. I also feel that step #1 in fixing my state's pension woes is to have all workers pay into Soc Sec.

NoiseBoy, A few more posts like this and I may soon have to add you to my list of dangerous radicals who infest this site.

Often the decision to not be in SS took place before many people working today where even alive. But, the real cure is to just make nearly everybody participate. Any exceptions should be few and far between, with the worker acknowledging he/she is massively limiting SS payouts in the future.

One question is I have is "what what happened to all the money people did not pay into SS?" Granted, most of it most likely went into the pension plan but rarely all of it. There is usually a few percent that the employer and employee get to keep. Where did it go?

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telly WEP, and its spousal alternate GPO (Government Pension Offset) will probably be in existence forever. In TX, 96% of the school systems do not pay into SS, so WEP is a conversational football that gets kicked around often by the older employees. The depth of conversation is often: WEP is unfair!!! (it's a very short conversation ). From long ago, DW has enough quarters in for her own SS account, and will be affected by WEP due to her non-SS work pension. And if she receives SS benefits via my account, she will be affected by GPO. Neither of us have a problem with it because of what it addresses. Meanwhile, some in the "to be WEP'd" crowd, are convinced that the US congress will soon see the light and "correct this injustice" (their words). T'aint gonna happen. SS would need a new source of revenue in the billions to handle the halt of WEP and GPO. If a person is slowly drowning, throw him a cement block EDIT - Sunset, my post was NOT a response to your post. I am a very slow typer, and when I started, your post was not there.

Not a problem, lots of folks have various opinions about everything, and I have no hope Congress will fix this issue, or lots of the other issues of SS.

I will tell you, I'm not happy about WEP, mostly as it was a surprise to me, and even the SS site does not truly handle the WEP calculations well, so they fudge it all by claiming at most they will reduce by 50% of the non-SS pension. All of which created uncertainty.

I have reduced my WEP impact as much as possible, and will watch to see what SS does for a reduction.

[Vacation4us]

My spouse is effected by WEP or GOP. He has always paid more than the $ amount of FICA toward his pension and so has the state. Halfway through his career the state dumped health care coverage at 65 so he has paid Medicare tax ever since. He is ok with the amount of his pension compared to what SS would have paid.

Now he had a close coworker that came on late paid into SS,was forced out at 60 based on his age alone who got divorced and lost half his pension, pays alimony too and will never see SS. That guys not a fan of WEP.

Personal situation vary.

My SS dies with me since dear husband can't collect. That's kinda a bummer but again we rather have hubby's cola'd pension.

[beowulf]

"Now he had a close coworker that came on late paid into SS,was forced out at 60 based on his age alone who got divorced and lost half his pension, pays alimony too and will never see SS. That guys not a fan of WEP."

If he never sees SS, how does WEP affect him? The government is not going to reduce a payment that's zero to begin with. If he paid his 40 quarters, he will get some amount from SS, though that could be offset by WEP. If not, then he simply won't qualify. I know ex feds who worked in private industry when they were very young, but only got up to 20 or so quarters. They didn't qualify for SS. That was their choice.

[Teacher Terry]

It sounds like most of his career was paying SS and then went to a non paying one late so he is losing more in SS then he will gain in his pension.

[beowulf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry It sounds like most of his career was paying SS and then went to a non paying one late so he is losing more in SS then he will gain in his pension.

Sorry, I don't get that impression at all. Once you have 30 years under SS, the WEP starts to drop with each year under SS until it disappears at 30 years of contributions. I had 6 years active military, became a fed not paying SS, but did pay for medicare, then another 9 years under SS. That comes to 17 years, so I am subject to the full WEP on my SS benefit. That wasn't the law when I became a fed, but, when it was implemented during the Reagan years, I became subject to it. If this individual came into non SS covered employment late in his career, he should have known the consequences. Hating the WEP may make him feel better, but I say again, it was his decision, his choice and, most importantly, the law was in effect many years before he took the non SS job.

[Chuckanut]

Thanks for pointing out the 30 year WEP rule.

I think it should be pointed out that nobly is ‘hurt’ by WEP. WEP simply prevents people who did not pay into SS every year they worked from getting a better deal than those who did pay in every year. They are not being hurt, they are simply not getting a bonus by mistakenly being treated like lower income earners.

Tom Margenau’s SS and You blog has some excellent examples of this, how it works, complete with the math.

[Teacher Terry]

Many people that came to work in our state had no clue until their first paycheck that SS was not taken out. The state doesn’t tell you that at hiring. I had no clue that some states didn’t pay in.

[Sue J]

DH got a yearly statement from his state pension system. There was always a reminder that employees in the pension system may also be eligible for Social Security for work outside their current employer and that WEP may reduce their SS benefit.

Early on in his career I learned about WEP and GPO and understood the impact. But I'm number and detail oriented especially when it comes to OUR MONEY. I think there were many employees who never looked at their yearly statement and didn't realize the effect of not paying into Social Security.

[Teacher Terry]

After I received my first paycheck I realized no SS was taken out and inquired about it. I then researched WEP, etc and educated myself. At that point I had moved across the country for a new job and loved it. At that point I made the decision to stay.