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Old 03-01-2011, 11:10 AM   #21
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Last year I switched to very part time work. I go into the office once or twice a week and do a little work at home. I average about 12-13 hours a week with quite a bit of variability.

One reason I did it was that we are trying to sell our house and doing this would cover the maintenance costs of the house. However, I've found that I actually enjoy doing it. Basically I get to to do the parts of my work that I enjoyed and don't have to do all the things that used to annoy me or that were stressful. I thought when I first went ESR that it was my work that was stressful. But I found that the work itself is fine when all the stress and annoying stuff is stripped away.
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:36 AM   #22
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It sure doesn't hurt to look at the world from a different point of view.
That is true, unless what you are talking about is a religion. In this case, it evidently hurts quite a bit.

Ha
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:38 AM   #23
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I read the article....very depressing. I suppose if one has a j*b that allows fabulous vacations, constant self-actualization and an overall salubrious life style we wouldn't need FIRE! Anybody know who's hiring into that world?
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:45 AM   #24
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I read the article....very depressing. I suppose if one has a j*b that allows fabulous vacations, constant self-actualization and an overall salubrious life style we wouldn't need FIRE! Anybody know who's hiring into that world?
I hear they need people in the Army.
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:48 AM   #25
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I hear they need people in the Army.
Not in the UK
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:49 AM   #26
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Many times people enter a field because they are interested in the work itself. But as most of us find out, even if we liked the work itself, the corporate BS -- the bureaucracy, the office politics, the contrived deadlines and urgency of everything, the wage-slave mentality -- becomes intolerable.

In fact I'd wager that many (if not most) people who desperately want out of their j*bs are looking more to escape the corporate BS that accompanies the work than are escaping the actual work itself.
Bingo! I'll admit that this is true of me, and I'm actually an "owner" of my firm (with a rather large share of the profits). But, with 500 other owners (not to mention 1,500 employees), there is far too much "corporate BS" to suit many. Biglaw, so called, is not all that different from the F500 with respect to the hassles identified above.
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:49 AM   #27
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That is true, unless what you are talking about is a religion. In this case, it evidently hurts quite a bit.

Ha
Different philosophies are always interesting to consider. I'm methodist by upbringing, Buddhist by inclination and catholic in my views (must emphasize the small c)
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:54 AM   #28
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But I found that the work itself is fine when all the stress and annoying stuff is stripped away.
There's a vast divide between "work" and the typical employment experience. Work is what students prepare themselves for. The typical employment experience is the horrible mess most people eventually find themselves in, often inextricably. As time goes on, the two seem to have less and less to do with one another.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:04 PM   #29
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I wonder what is a larger risk - a well designed portfolio under-performing in the long run or having health issues that will prevent you from working till 70.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:11 PM   #30
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It was not that many years ago that I loved my job and figured I would work forever. Things can change though. I considered aiming for ER versus w*rking longer and spending more on pleasure and ER wins my vote.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:23 PM   #31
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In fact I'd wager that many (if not most) people who desperately want out of their j*bs are looking more to escape the corporate BS that accompanies the work than are escaping the actual work itself.
Absolutely.

We had a poll a year or two ago on "Why did you retire?". Most answers were negatives about corporate BS in one form or another.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:24 PM   #32
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It was not that many years ago that I loved my job and figured I would work forever. Things can change though. I considered aiming for ER versus w*rking longer and spending more on pleasure and ER wins my vote.
And so it was for me. For years it was terrific. And I didn't change -- my profession did. Although the changes made me richer, net of all considerations the environment is no longer to my liking.

I pat myself on the back, however, for playing good offense and, for the most part, good defense, all while the ground was moving beneath my feet. Offense and defense "financially," that is. The result is that, now that I don't like what I see in the environment, I can retire to something else (or nothing at all). The only question is, how long do I keep w*rking in an environment not much to my liking, bearing in mind that I can hang it up tomorrow if irritated "too much" today. This is a high-class problem to have and one that many denizens of this board have earned for themselves.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:29 PM   #33
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I liked the article in the OP. It was a refreshingly different view from the normal "You gotta save save save ..." -- although it seemed overly confusing about the financial benefits, which are just the after tax earnings from the extra work.

I had a DB pension instead of a 401k for much of my working career. If it had all been 401k, I expect that I would have worked longer. I would have tried to make a deal with my boss for 4-10 weeks of unpaid leave every year, then I could have paid for extensive, comfortable travel during those weeks with my after tax wages (knowing that I had enough 401k already built up to be FI).
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:52 PM   #34
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I wonder what is a larger risk - a well designed portfolio under-performing in the long run or having health issues that will prevent you from working till 70.
I think it would depend on what kind of job one has, and how long the portfolio is required to last.

An abrupt, acutely lethal illness is no problem for the working scenario, and likely not for the retired one.

And 70 is an arbitrary number, so if one gets disabled at 69 it is sub-optimal, but likely not a disaster, since ordinarily a disability will also shorten projected lifespan.

On the retirement scenario, if getting 40 years out of a 2% -3% SWR started when PE10 was mid-range or below is all that is being asked, it likely works fine. If one is pushing toward SWR 4%, or as is typically done, retiring after good market run has pushed up valuations, I would say planning on working until 70 is much less risky if health is the only thing that might end your career, and your job is a white collar, non-dangerous or physically demanding job.

But of course many older workers are also vulnerable to age related stereotypes that may result in them being pushed out.

Ha
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:02 PM   #35
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Then again, if my j*b was enjoyable, my obsession with early retirement wouldn't be there.

There are few people in life I envy more than those who truly love their work and can't imagine not doing it (assuming they don't lose their job). I envy them more than people with large COLA'd pensions, even.
When I found this site I was at a low point in my working life....boss was nuts and work was boring. I obsessed about retiring early and started taking steps to make it happen at 55 (in 2016 I'll have co. subsidized healthcare).

I also started looking for a new job because I couldn't handle five years of misery. Several months ago I found the job of my dreams, have a wonderful boss and the company is paying me to get my LSS Black Belt certification which I've wanted to do for several years.

I love my job now and still plan to retire early but if 55 doesn't happen it won't be the end of the world as long as I'm healthy and still enjoying my job.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:26 PM   #36
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It was not that many years ago that I loved my job and figured I would work forever. Things can change though. I considered aiming for ER versus w*rking longer and spending more on pleasure and ER wins my vote.
Yes I enjoyed what I was doing, then there was a merger, and things went downhill. Much more bullshit than before. So after giving it some time, I took an opportunity to leave when they were paying severance, its easy to leave when they pay you a years salary to go.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:50 PM   #37
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paying me to get my LSS Black Belt certification which I've wanted to do for several years.
I left a job because I realized the manager who was implementing Six Sigma didn't actually understand standard deviation. He went to LSS after an unsuccessful implementation of Kaizen which was done when quality went to hell after a "downsizing" and all the most experienced (and highest paid) technicians and lab staff were laid off. We'd been doing Kaizen and LSS for 20 years, but calling it SOP
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:21 PM   #38
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I left a job because I realized the manager who was implementing Six Sigma didn't actually understand standard deviation. He went to LSS after an unsuccessful implementation of Kaizen which was done when quality went to hell after a "downsizing" and all the most experienced (and highest paid) technicians and lab staff were laid off. We'd been doing Kaizen and LSS for 20 years, but calling it SOP
I'm sorry to hear that.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:33 PM   #39
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its easy to leave when they pay you a years salary to go.
That would do it for me right now.
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:10 PM   #40
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I think that it depends on the demands of the job, how your health holds out and your need / desire to work.

I don't think that the concept is new. Years ago a master craftsman would take on an apprentice to both help the master in his later years and teach the apprentice a trade.
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