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View Poll Results: How much did you spend last year?
Married: Less than 30,000 5 2.75%
Married: 30,000 to 40,000 5 2.75%
Married: 40,000 to 50,000 16 8.79%
Married: 50,000 to 60,000 18 9.89%
Married: 60,000 to 70,000 11 6.04%
Married: 70,000 to 85,000 29 15.93%
Married: 85,000 to 100,000 14 7.69%
Married: 100,000 to 125,000 14 7.69%
Married: 125,000 to 150,000 9 4.95%
Married: over 150,000 15 8.24%
Single: Less than 20,000 9 4.95%
Single: 20,000 to 30,000 9 4.95%
Single: 30,000 to 40,000 9 4.95%
Single: 40,000 to 50,000 3 1.65%
Single: 50,000 to 60,000 8 4.40%
Single: 60,000 to 70,000 5 2.75%
Single: 70,000 to 85,000 0 0%
Single: 85,000 to 100,000 1 0.55%
Single: 100,000 to 125,000 1 0.55%
Single: over 125,000 1 0.55%
Voters: 182. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-24-2008, 06:15 PM   #21
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Seems to me that we sometimes get out of alignment on details like before taxes or after taxes ...

Nicolette's original question #1 asked for an after tax figure.
This poll includes taxes. Just an observation.

Looks like Rich posted while I was composing.
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Old 08-24-2008, 07:03 PM   #22
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Retirement for two this year will top out about $47K for us. That includes Uncle Sam's stimulating donation.

Some unusual expenses this year were almost $4K for dental implants for DW, beyond what insurance covered. We spent several thousand $$ doing some house work and I built a number of pieces of furniture with granite tops, probably spent $1100 for the tops alone. And then there was the BIG SCREEN TV, all 52 inches of it.

I started retirement last October 1, with $8193.73 in the check book so the final tally this year will give us the real number, including all taxes. So far we haven't touched any of the nest egg, except to polish it.
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Old 08-24-2008, 07:13 PM   #23
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Really don't know. We have a $1918 home mortgage payment to PenFed, but that was to retire a mortgage on a rental house and to pay off a mortgage we had on our home to payoff some apartments. Quarterly Fed and State taxes run about $9300 for the two of us. We don't have any car payments - driving '89 and '93 BMWs. A fair chunk goes to Alaska Air so the gal can ping-pong back and forth to 29 Palms every month to care for her Momma. Current clothes budget is pretty non-existant - second hand stores, and i really don't wear many garments out - the gal is not swayed by the latest fashion breeze. Kids = 0. Costco frozen foods for most of our diet. When i broke down the last year's expenses figured $1440 for a mortgage payment and added utilities, Dish, phone w/ DSL, $700 for insuring 2 people, $48 for 7 dental cleanings/year, $800/month for 2 car payments, $200 for auto gas, $450 for fun, $500 for supplies and gifts, $176/month for property taxes, $72 for house maint., $128 for home and auto ins. ... I came up with a budget in today dollars of $5510/month - not including anything for Fed or state taxes - figure maybe $90k total desired/year? Lots of known unknowns in there and no unknown unknowns. Druther have a cushion for those. Too much guessing: never had a new car, but if my shoulders are telling me the truth i probably won't feel like rolling the dice with old cars much longer - so figure new car payments. Health insurance cost at 60? Figuring a mortgage somewhere, but who knows how much?
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Old 08-24-2008, 07:51 PM   #24
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When I was planning for retirement, my target was to have $90,000 for the initial year and to increase by inflation in subsequent years. In the first year we actually spent $88,000. After 5 years of retirement I have stopped bothering to track expenses in detail. Now we spend what we need/want and I just track our net worth, which has stayed about the same despite the fall in home values.
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:36 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post
You didnt get me. I dont mean net worth. If I had a mortgage and two car payments, I'd be spending about 20k more a year than I do.

So the spending depends on what you're arrangements are.

Someone with a two homes with mortgages in retirement would spend a lot more than me but their lifestyle could be the same.

The folks with 4-5 rental properties have huge spending demands, but their cash flow is excellent!

Now if you delineate it to be spending ex-housing/car/debt/other flim-flammy stuff and keep it to standard expenses, you might have somethin.
Yep - pre Katrina paid off fish camp, cars, no health insurance - I coulda checked off under 20k(quite a bit under) for a number off yrs.

Now -mortgage, car payment until this year, health insurance and as you pointed out on another thread - take out more tax deferred on occasion to pay the the resulting higher taxes as you drift up in spending.

It is amazing how much you can vary your spending if need be in ER - up or down.

heh heh heh - We've had some ancient threads on budget's on this forum - which usually ended with walking barefoot to school uphill both ways or the John Cleese sketch.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:42 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by dex View Post
When I respond to post like the above I first ask if they track their current expenses and do they have a detailed budget for before and after retiring. How they answer tells me if their budget estimate for retiring is reasonable.
I'll respectfully disagree. I have never had the discipline/motivation to do a detailed budget/expense report. But I *know* how much I spend each year, maybe better than some who do the detail thing.

Money only flows out of a couple of our accounts. I add up the outflows, adjust for the ones that were really 'transfers' (ROTH contributions, etc) or were reimbursed, and that is my yearly 'spend'. Then I add in an estimate to amortize known large routine expenses (2 new cars every 10 years or so), any known upcoming large maintenance items (roof, furnace, etc), and that's it.

And if someone does that calculation pre-retirement, that does not mean that is what they need post-retirement. Health ins, or maybe an increase or decrease in spending is in order ( increased travel, decreases in other areas).

It depends.


Quote:
Assuming (single or married) no debt an no children; spending $100K a year and growing it by the 4% guideline is a very difficult spend rate to maintain. (Yes, I know it can easily be done - if you want to do it to prove a point)
Why would that be? In one year my health ins alone went up by 4% of my spending. It may happen again.

We are close to that ballpark, no travel, no cable, dine out infrequently or cheap, 10 year old cars, etc, etc. No ' keeping up with the Jones's ' I guess cost of living is just higher in some places. We do have high property tax, fairly high med insurance, etc.

-ERD50
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:42 PM   #27
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Disclosure: ain't retired yet.

If I retire at 66, my total annual INCOME BEFORE TAXES will be about $45,000.

I won't spend what I don't have. (Disaster!)

Current options:
A) Keep working
B) Mexico
C) Further south.
D) Rob a bank in Canada. Worst case: I get away with it.

Hasta luego.

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Old 08-24-2008, 09:46 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Ed_The_Gypsy View Post
Disclosure: ain't retired yet.

If I retire at 66, my total annual INCOME BEFORE TAXES will be about $45,000.

I won't spend what I don't have. (Disaster!)
If your $45k estimate assumes the 4 or 4.5% SWR rule, you could take a substantial bump up by annuitizing a chunk of your savings, or the equivalent such as Vg Managed Payout 7% flavor. That plus ss - makes a big difference, if you don't have heirs to consider.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:58 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_The_Gypsy View Post
Disclosure: ain't retired yet.

If I retire at 66, my total annual INCOME BEFORE TAXES will be about $45,000.

I won't spend what I don't have. (Disaster!)

Current options:
A) Keep working
B) Mexico
C) Further south.
D) Rob a bank in Canada. Worst case: I get away with it.

Hasta luego.

Gypsy
According to the U.S. Census, real median household (not individual) income in the United States was $48,200 in 2006.
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/...th/010583.html
$45K probably is not a disaster unless you let yourself think it is.
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:13 PM   #30
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I'll most likely end this year at 24K taxes included. Somewhere close to 3.5K went to charity, and I have a mortgage, but no car payment or bills except insurance and utilities.
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:31 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dex View Post
When I respond to post like the above I first ask if they track their current expenses and do they have a detailed budget for before and after retiring. How they answer tells me if their budget estimate for retiring is reasonable.
I also respectfully disagree with this part - some people need a budget, some can do it instinctively. I am now 50, retired 2 years, and have not had a budget for decades. I just spend less than is available.

When I first started bicycle touring in the early 80s, I would draw out exact maps, where the rest stops / bike shops / motels were, measure out my food and water, and have everything planned out to the n'th degree. Nowadays I might make a reservation if I am riding up the coast on a weekend, otherwise I just start pedalling. I feel my finances are on the same level - I have been doing everything so long I hardly need to plan my budget in advance.
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:53 PM   #32
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Second, if I use post-tax savings to live on first, that mean no taxes on that part, but when that runs dry, I have to gross everything up by 20% or whatever (ouch).
People say this all the time, but I can't understand. Unless the money has been in a mattress, or you saved most of it only last year, at least half of it will be gains on which taxes have to be paid.

Incidentally, this may not be typical but I have paid more taxes by far after I retired than before, but maybe not if I transformed the amounts by an inflation factor.

Ha
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:26 PM   #33
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Unless the money has been in a mattress, or you saved most of it only last year, at least half of it will be gains on which taxes have to be paid.

Ha
Mattress $/SPY purchased in 1999, same tax rate if I spend it this year!
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:54 PM   #34
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Mattress $/SPY purchased in 1999, same tax rate if I spend it this year!
My Dear, I am so sorry!

Ha
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:48 AM   #35
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with all the studies saying married people are happier, how is it that so far the poll results show 90% of singles satisfied with less than $70k yet 64% of the married require more than $70k? twice as much food? medical insurance? expensive toys for scheduled sex?
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:59 AM   #36
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with all the studies saying married people are happier, how is it that so far the poll results show 90% of singles satisfied with less than $70k yet 64% of the married require more than $70k? twice as much food? medical insurance? expensive toys for scheduled sex?
Sample is too small to make any kind of conclusion. Ive heard that 1 person =1x while 2 people =1.5x

Dont know how accurate that is
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Old 08-25-2008, 03:37 AM   #37
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My vote was before tax.

It is what needs to be earned (Before taxes) to support our current lifestyle.
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Old 08-25-2008, 05:58 AM   #38
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I answered excluding taxes. Just the funds spent on our living expenses, etc. Roth conversions would skew the answer if taxes included.

Big variable, y-t-y is travel.
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Old 08-25-2008, 06:41 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa View Post
If your $45k estimate assumes the 4 or 4.5% SWR rule, you could take a substantial bump up by annuitizing a chunk of your savings, or the equivalent such as Vg Managed Payout 7% flavor. That plus ss - makes a big difference, if you don't have heirs to consider.
Annuitizing the nest egg (dyi) is one scenario I have been playing with just to see what the maximum limits of spending could be. It gets scary, spending would have to double, taxes would go through the roof and then in twenty five years it would be "game over".

I prefer to stick with the plan and meter out the funds on an as needed basis later in life.

Just how much money fun you can really enjoy is something I'll let others explore. However, the idle mind does tend to crave more money.
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:16 AM   #40
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Mattress $/SPY purchased in 1999, same tax rate if I spend it this year!
I re-read this and I don't think you are saying that this is your situation. So I am still confused. Wouldn't the asset allocation and rebalancing principle direct you to add to this position, and sell from some appreciated position? Thereby still exposing you to taxes?

Ha
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