Suze, Dave, Rick, et al.

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GrayHare

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FIRE types are not the main audience of these financial gurus but listening can sometimes be interesting. Of the three I think Suze offers the most constructive help and tackles the most diverse issues, but is the most abrasive of the three. I was surprised by how much of a religious bent Dave's show has, and his repeated "get rid of debt" mantra quickly grows old. Rick's advice is so unconditional as to be reckless IMO. For example, Rick is completely against tIRA to Roth conversion, but so far that has been one of the best financial moves I've ever made.
 
Dave Ramsey has decent savings advice, if a bit simplistic, but his investing "advice" is dumb at best and dangerous at worst.

Everything I've seen Suze say regarding investment has been dumb as well.

And Rick who?
 
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Suze Orman - can't stand and have never watched even an entire episode.

Dave Ramsey - I've never seen his advise but have heard ppl talking about snowballing? I like him though because he really made people take notice of their finances. Mild cult-like following I've noticed on a few budget/coupon forums.

I don't know who Rick is either.
 
Never heard of Rick, though I know of the other two.

Their products don't interest me, so with the exception of a brief flick through one of Suze's books, I have not watched or read what they are offering. Not my thing.

Besides, I have 3 kitties to feed and play with, and radios to build (one of my hobbies.)
 
I have problems with about half of what Suze says. I don't go out of my way to read or watch anything of hers.

I think Dave is wonderful if you look at his original, target market. They are the deeply in debt and generally low income individuals. LBYM and getting out of debt is his recurring chant. When you start getting into his investment advice, I have problems with it personally but for his "audience" it may not be so bad. He sends people to his Endorsed Local Providers where Dave gets a cut or a referral fee. They put people into load mutual funds but they at least get people to start investing. I like to think that within a few years these people start looking at the available options and learn about index investing.

Rick Edelman? I probably spelled his name wrong but he's just one of many investment advisors ready to take a fee for mishandling your money. In the last few years he seems to have been converted to index investing. Why would anyone feel compelled to pay someone a fee to buy index funds?
 
I think they are referring to Ric Edelman.

His radio show broadcasts can be heard on my AM radio on weekends.

If this is who they are referring to, I also have wondered if what this guy preaches is any good. He certainly talks a good game. I was tempted to call him when I was first out of college. Stayed with the family FA instead.

Now I manage my own money.
 
These are ENTERTAINMENT shows. Not any different than the Bill Bresnan talk radio shows my parents used to torture me with on driving vacations in the 80s. The average 22-year-old first-time poster on Early-Retirement or Bogleheads has far more of a clue than the typical callers/audience members of these shows. I also trust the experts advice about as much as I trust a fresh out of college Ameriprise salesman.

I wouldn't adjust my finances from listening to these people any more than I'd try to adjust my valves using plastic silverware after listening to Click and Clack. :)
 
Dave - like
Clark - prefer
Ric - don't know
Suze - the horror, the horror
 
For the novice they are all wonderful. I enjoy Suze's "Can I afford it" so I watch the middle of her show. I enjoy peoples' stories on Dave's show but find that sometimes debt is good. Rick has some good ideas, but it takes more than a 2 minute call to pick appropriate AA, etc. Where does Clark find all these deals? Rick Springfield is great. Enjoyed the clip. DW has a thing for Journey. Can we get a clip?
 
I'm guessing most regular members here don't pay attention to any of them at any frequency. I know I don't, might as well add Cramer to the list, who cares...
 
Z3Dreamer said:
I enjoy peoples' stories on Dave's show but find that sometimes debt is good.
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I'm probably more conservative than Dave. Debt is never good for the individual just because it increases personal risk. The only exception could be for a loan necessary to fund a lucrative profession such as being a doctor although from a purely financial standpoint there's probably more money in being a plumber. A home loan is acceptable if it is well within one's ability to pay for it. The home loan still has risk because I once lost a job and faced the possibility of personal bankruptcy because home prices tanked just as I lost the job.

I think Dave's 3 to 6 month emergency fund is too optimistic. I think the typical person needs a 12 month cushion as a minimum.
 
All three of them sometimes get on lecture mode. I think Suze the worse, then Dave, then Ric. I don't listen watch to Suze anymore (don't care for when she berates the callers), sometimes to Dave when driving and do listen to Ric sometimes on Sundays when the radio is on while exercising.
 
Midpack said:
I'm guessing most regular members here don't pay attention to any of them at any frequency. I know I don't, might as well add Cramer to the list, who cares...
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Ditto, but every once in awhile they each can come up with a gem of advice that I was not aware of.
 
I'd never heard of any of them except through this site, so a few years ago I listened to a bunch of Dave's radio podcasts on my way to work, and also watched a few weeks worth of Suze's show. I thought they were okay for their target audiences of folks who can't manage money and get into too much debt, but never paid much attention to any investing advice.

They quickly became boring to me, "wash, rinse, repeat", so I stick to reading about their latest exploits here, although Suze seems much more capable of raising folks' hackles.
 
What bugs me about Suze is that it seems like no matter how much you hate your job and can clearly afford to retire based on retirement income, assets and planned expenses, if you're under about 75 she scolds you to keep working.
 
panacea said:
I agree these shows are pretty much for entertainment. I think grayhare is referring to Rick Springfield...
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I love that song. Except for the part where he says "moot" and it just sounds dumb.

I listened to Dave Ramsey a lot when we first started getting money-wise, and his advice and simple ideas about the momentum of paying off debts was very helpful. I am a great student of behavioral finance, and his methods to encourage those in debt to fix their lifestyles is really really good.

After the basics, though, he doesn't do so well at the investing part. And I have no idea about the rest of these peeps.
 
Hurts my ears the one time I listened to Suze. Dave's advice is solid and consistent. Clark is funny but annoying.
 
+1 to all that mentioned that they cater to there target audience

It is through reading Dave's Total Money Make Over that I was able to pull my head out of my back side. It gave me a sobering wake up call which in turn led me to this web site. Personally I would never had considered FIRE prior to reading that book. Since then I have actively been aware
of where we have been prioritizing our funds. His investing advice is not the best, but since focusing on getting out of "stupid tax" I have been more engaged on researching a better approach. If anything, Dave has helped my family break our ties from debt and inspired us to look actively towards the future. We are better for it!
 
The only one I've listened to with any degree of regularity is Dave. His investment advice and retirement spending advice is terrible. On the getting out of debt front, I think he really is good.

I've listened to a lot of his shows and have listened to him on specific issues at his website. There is more nuance in some of what he says than more people think. He is rigid on debt, but less so on spending. For example, I remember a question from a woman about whether to spend any money on Christmas presents while in debt. He came down in favor of buying the presents (modestly to be sure).

If I could give only one resource to someone who is in debt it would be to send them to listen to Dave or to read Total Money Makeoever (which I've read). He is inspirational on getting out of debt and really does help people to see where they are going wrong.

That said, it used to annoy me about how adamant he was about no debt (other than a mortgage) no matter the situation. I do agree with him that debt is not a good thing and most people should avoid it. On the other hand, even as someone who was once in debt, I can handle charging to my Amex card (to get cash back and for convenience) and then paying the full amount when the bill comes. There are also some limited situations where it makes more financial sense to take a modest loan at low interest rate. I know that he is basically worried about people falling back into bad habits. And, that is a real concern. However, despite ignoring his advice on that point (I use Amex every month and pay the bill every month), I think his advice on getting out of debt is very helpful for most people in that situation.
 
GrayHare said:
Ric(k)'s Top 50 Tips made me cringe. Some are fine, of course, but many apply only in certain situations (which he does not describe). Blindly following this list could cause lots of trouble for some.
Article | Ric Edelman
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Ric like most advisors are trying to appeal to those who know zero about investing. Like most he has a huge ego, you'll hear how he's the top FA as ranked by Barrons about every 30 mins, they are more salesman than FA. FA's biggest benefit is they will hold your hand when market drops, if you need that to prevent panicking, I guess they are worth their 1%.
 
Katsmeow said:
That said, it used to annoy me about how adamant he was about no debt (other than a mortgage) no matter the situation. I do agree with him that debt is not a good thing and most people should avoid it. On the other hand, even as someone who was once in debt, I can handle charging to my Amex card (to get cash back and for convenience) and then paying the full amount when the bill comes. There are also some limited situations where it makes more financial sense to take a modest loan at low interest rate. I know that he is basically worried about people falling back into bad habits. And, that is a real concern. However, despite ignoring his advice on that point (I use Amex every month and pay the bill every month), I think his advice on getting out of debt is very helpful for most people in that situation.
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Which is why, as many of us have often said here, we of the ER.org forum are not (for the most part) Dave's "target market". You rarely put yourself in a position to enjoy a long, early retirement with a boat load of debt you can't crawl out from.
 
I didn't like the way Suze was advising to dump equities at their bottom. There were many that advised selling after the market had already gombe down 5000 points.
 
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