Suze, Dave, Rick, et al.

I don't understand why people are so down on Suzy Orman. I enjoy watching her show every week. I may not always take her financial or investment advice, but I think she does a good job of educating people on the importance of saving for retirement and not buying things you can't afford.

If nothing else, just seeing the financial stats of the people who call in to the show is a weekly reminder of how fortunate I am to be FI and able to ER, and not saddled with the burdens these people have of debt, job losses, under water mortgages, and bad relationships. I feel very luck to be me after watching her show each week, and if that isn't worth an hour of my time, I don't know what is.
 
brewer12345 said:
OMG, you really think this? Cramer is about the worst thing you could watch if you want to pick stocks. Worse than clueless. Like much of the media, when he starts babbling about a sector I know very well it is truly apalling to see how uninformed he is, yet the minions who watch this crap eat it up and make wildly stupid trades. Many a Cramer-induced wave of buying or selling by the clueless has afforded me wonderful opportunities to take the other side of the trade.
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Yes I do. He give CEOs opportunities to explain some fundamentals about their business, while also asking them about what drives margins, competition and threats in their industry. I watched much of his series on biotech, and I thought was a pretty good introduction to the basic stages of biotech companies. He didn't give specific recommendation on biotech stocks, other than identify which ones he owned. But if you listened to the series you'd at least know the difference between device maker, and early stage biotech, and late stage.
His are you diversified obviously doesn't go far enough since it is limited to 4 or 5 stocks, but at least the approach is right.​

Now you are right his stock picking track record is pretty poor if you just blindly buy and sell when he tells you.

There is big gap between what you an know as investor and what I know, but there is an even larger gap between what I know and the average investor. I went to a couple of my mom's investment club and I think plenty of individual investors have no clue how to read a balance sheet or income statement. I think listening and reading his books would teach you that stuff. While you can certainly argue that if you have don't know your way around a balance sheet, you should only invest in index funds that isn't how the world works.
 
Jim Kramer was a very successful hedge fund manager.

I don't like his show, it's too loud for me.

When he first arrived on TV I googled his name and ran across posts on finance forums from the past that referred to him as Mr. Kramer, when he was still running his hedge fund. He was obviously well respected at the time.

How did the others earn their spots as finance gurus?
 
I watch him fairly regularly. I find him extremely entertaining and extremely dangerous to the average investor.

But what the hell. Booo yaaaa!

cramernov17.jpg
 
A big +1 for Clark Howard. He gives primarily consumer-oriented advice, but his simple guidance on saving and investing is always spot-on. His web-site is good (looking for a cheap cell phone plan? Tips on saving money on travel? etc--it's a good first stop).
I think he's also got a lot of integrity and I've seen no hint of conflict of interest. He doesn't have sponsors that he pushes listeners to use (camouflaged as "impartial advice"). He writes books and tells listeners about them, but even then advises people to see if they can find them free at the library or tells them to look for them on sale.
 
Dave was very helpful in motivating me to get out of $40K in student loan debt. I used to listen to him all the time. He has great advice about the dangers of borrowing and living beyond your means. I generally like his style, though he can be a little too biblical at times. I only learned recently about how "off" his investment advice is. That surprised me. I never listened to him for that, though. Once I got out of debt and started piling away the savings, I stopped listening regularly. He was an inspirational motivator in those first few years, though, and I definitely credit him (partially) for where I am now.

I don't trust Suze Orman, for some reason. Seems like a huckster or salesman.
 
Onward said:
I watch him fairly regularly. I find him extremely entertaining and extremely dangerous to the average investor.

But what the hell. Booo yaaaa!

cramernov17.jpg
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There was a time when I thought Cramer was a complete nut! For years I didn't watch his show. A relative gave me one of his books and I found it a little on the questionable side.

Only recently have I watched his show on a regular basis. After a while I was able to overlook his showboating shenanigans and began to see he has some good ideas. I'm still not a fan of the idea of Mad Money (speculative money) because I think all money deserves my undivided attention and should be dedicated to long-term goals - not short term gains.

I guess I'm finding myself halfway into the Booo Yaaaa camp - with the other half saying caveat emptor.
 
Dave - Wonderful debt advice, terrible investment advice. Listen/watch his show almost daily (he now has free, live video streaming of his show). Am motivated by the 'debt-free screams' of folks who have dug themselves out of large amounts of debt. Last week, a guy had paid back $2.3 million!

Clark - spot-on consumer advice

Ric - Has a firm grasp of issues beyond just investing. Interesting perspective on how one should have the largest mortgage they can afford and not be in any hurry to pay it back.


Another person that I like to watch is Consuelo Mack. She does a weekly show called Consuelo Mack WEALTHTRACK: The right track to your financial health. : WealthTrack for PBS and all her interviews are on the web. For those who enjoyed Louis Rukeyser, this is an interview show much in the same spirit (in fact, I believe she was the host of Wall Street Week in its last days).
 
brewer12345 said:
.... when he starts babbling about a sector I know very well it is truly apalling to see how uninformed he is.....
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You are exactly right....he interviewed our CEO when the company went public and he sounded like he knew the business well to outsiders, but for those of us in the business, it was nonsense. Our CEO just kinda nodded in disbelief.


I do enjoy watching Cramer's antics, but I can only take small doses. He he is part of the CNBC infotainment machine.
 
I credit Ric Edelman with teaching me investing 101 through one of his books (about 12 years ago) but I've since tired of some of his gimmicks such as never paying down a mortgage and not using index funds. He did, however, give me the guts to start investing in late 2001/2002 which was a pretty decent entry point. (Better than 1999 or 2000!)
 
gindie said:
Another person that I like to watch is Consuelo Mack. She does a weekly show called Consuelo Mack WEALTHTRACK: The right track to your financial health. : WealthTrack for PBS and all her interviews are on the web. For those who enjoyed Louis Rukeyser, this is an interview show much in the same spirit (in fact, I believe she was the host of Wall Street Week in its last days).
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+1 I just watched her show recently - one of the best, broad-market, long-term perspectives currently available.
 
Another vote for Bob Brinker. He has been widely maligned on this board. His newsletter is called Marketimer, but he rarely makes buy/sell calls. I like him because he espouses indexing and DIY investment management. His show has been on the air for 28 years but has dwindled down to only 3 hrs on Sunday in our market....used to be on Sat and Sun. I have not listened regularly for a long while. I respect the fact that he does not have books, seminars, etc.,etc. to promote. He does have at least 2 newsletters, though.
 
ERD50 said:
That's a great example of the unintended consequences, and unfortunately probably pretty common.



Now that is sad. Confronted with facts, these obviously intelligent people just had to stick to their dogma. That's the opposite of 'education', IMO.


-ERD50
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For the most part people are interested only in what affects them directly. I imagine these students and their supervisors got much more creds out of "slapping down the man" than they ever would out of understanding the realities. These working class New Haven citizens were easy and weak targets, making them perfect opponents for scalp seeking elites.

Ha
 
samclem said:
A big +1 for Clark Howard. He gives primarily consumer-oriented advice, but his simple guidance on saving and investing is always spot-on. His web-site is good (looking for a cheap cell phone plan? Tips on saving money on travel? etc--it's a good first stop).
I think he's also got a lot of integrity and I've seen no hint of conflict of interest. He doesn't have sponsors that he pushes listeners to use (camouflaged as "impartial advice"). He writes books and tells listeners about them, but even then advises people to see if they can find them free at the library or tells them to look for them on sale.
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I never hear radio any more since my car is kaput, but I did like him when I heard him years ago. Overall I find the best consumer advice for me is just don't buy much, as I cannot sustain much interest in all these details of buying even more stuff for the same or less money. I really don't want to clutter my mind with much of this information, no matter how "good" it may be.

Ha
 
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Midpack said:
I'm guessing most regular members here don't pay attention to any of them at any frequency. I know I don't, might as well add Cramer to the list, who cares...
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Clark Howard is heads above the rest for consumer advice - I find myself agreeing with his advice to callers most of the time and he is good on both the LBYM/saving and investing fronts.

Also a +1 for WealthTrack and Consuelo Mack - I DVR it every week.

And I too miss Louis Rukeyser's Wall Street Week.
 
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clifp said:
Yes I do. He give CEOs opportunities to explain some fundamentals about their business, while also asking them about what drives margins, competition and threats in their industry. I watched much of his series on biotech, and I thought was a pretty good introduction to the basic stages of biotech companies. He didn't give specific recommendation on biotech stocks, other than identify which ones he owned. But if you listened to the series you'd at least know the difference between device maker, and early stage biotech, and late stage.
His are you diversified obviously doesn't go far enough since it is limited to 4 or 5 stocks, but at least the approach is right.​


Now you are right his stock picking track record is pretty poor if you just blindly buy and sell when he tells you.

There is big gap between what you an know as investor and what I know, but there is an even larger gap between what I know and the average investor. I went to a couple of my mom's investment club and I think plenty of individual investors have no clue how to read a balance sheet or income statement. I think listening and reading his books would teach you that stuff. While you can certainly argue that if you have don't know your way around a balance sheet, you should only invest in index funds that isn't how the world works.
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We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Aside from his general cluelessness about whatever he is spewing words about, what I find offputting about his schtick is the intentional injection of emotion into investing/trading decisions. Most of the time when I have made money and/or avoided losses it has been because I made coldly rational decisions with as little emotion involved as possible. Leaving the emotion behind has required years of training/learning and a ton of self discipline. Its too hard-won to just let go by listing to some lunatic rant, and I think anyone who fancies themself an investor would do well to cultivate a lack of emotion about these things.
 
I think most of us here have long ago outgrown Dave and Suze, but I continue to appreciate that there are still millions of folks out there that desperately need to hear their collective message.

I often flip on Dave's show as I'm puttering around the kitchen because i find it both entertaining, and reaffirming. Every so often I'll hear something new about containing costs that I might not have thought of, but mostly it just leaves me feeling really good about the choices we've made in our lives to allow us to reach FIRE at 48 & 56 years. I don't 'love' his insistence on mixing religion and finance in his show, but I can generally let it go.

And like some others have mentioned, Suze's "Can I Afford It" is an absolute guilty pleasure. I do sincerely appreciate her on-line will & trust kit, which we obtained for free using a promo code (just do a search for 'Suze Orman Will and Trust Kit Promo Code', or IM me if you want to know the code we found and used), which we used to prepare documents for my SIL recently.
 
ERD50 said:
Now that is sad. Confronted with facts, these obviously intelligent people just had to stick to their dogma. That's the opposite of 'education', IMO.
-ERD50
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+1 I really appreciate that members of this forum focus on fact. Something I always say to people I mentor at work: "Care only about getting the best answer, not about getting the answer you expected (or wanted)"
 
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I don't mind listening to these folks when I driving around, it is entertaining. It also reminds me of how far I've come, I feel sorry for the situations some folks end up in. As was mentioned earlier, their "simple" advice is good for those who are clueless on how to start on their finances. For example, I did find Ric Edelman's "The Truth About Money" book very informational back in the 1990s to get a handle on personal finance terminology and options. They key is to never throw all of your marbles in with any one finance guru, as none are perfect and one can find issues with some of the advice each gives.
 
I am a big fan of Dave. Like so many have already said, he is great at teaching people how to get out and stay out of debt (which I agree with) and not LBYM. When it comes to investing, he advises low cost growth stock funds but his local providers (FPL Financial here in Huntsville) use load funds that include bond funds. I do most of my investing with low cost stock funds as I am not that savvy and do not have time to really stay on top of it. Fire and forget is my approach in my TSP and Vanguard accounts.

Suzy; a little abbrasive but more or less on track with Dave except she believes in a high FICO and Dave believes in zero FICO.

Ric; no clue.
 
Katsmeow said:
I read both articles. While I agree with Olen in some respects I think that Salmon has the better take on it.

It seems that Salmon largely takes this perspective. I don't think he denies Olen's point. However, her point doesn't do anything to help people get out of debt. If your income has gone down and her expenses have gone up, there may be larger societal forces at play. However, the individual person needs to know how to stay out of debt. One thing I appreciate from Dave is that he often helps people to see things a different way to try to solve a problem. I suspect that while I think Olen is correct from a macro point of view, Dave's way is far more likely to help the individual person struggling financially.
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I guess Helaine Olen really struck a nerve with her article. Here is another take on it from Megan McArdle

How to Put the Brakes on Consumers' Debt - Bloomberg
 
brewer12345 said:
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Aside from his general cluelessness about whatever he is spewing words about, what I find offputting about his schtick is the intentional injection of emotion into investing/trading decisions. Most of the time when I have made money and/or avoided losses it has been because I made coldly rational decisions with as little emotion involved as possible. Leaving the emotion behind has required years of training/learning and a ton of self discipline. Its too hard-won to just let go by listing to some lunatic rant, and I think anyone who fancies themself an investor would do well to cultivate a lack of emotion about these things.
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Understandable, but in his defense Kramer does often talk about not letting your emotions rule when investing. Now of course when he yells, and carries on, and pushes the Sell, SELL, SELL! button, it is hard to take his
advice to seriously.

The most important quality for an investor is temperament, not intellect... You need a temperament that neither derives great pleasure from being with the crowd or against the crowd. Warren Buffett
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I am fortunate that it my temperament, not sure if that is a characteristic of most INTJ, but possibly.
 
Gumby said:
I guess Helaine Olen really struck a nerve with her article. Here is another take on it from Megan McArdle

How to Put the Brakes on Consumers' Debt - Bloomberg
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I am big fan of McArdle. I think her reporting on ACA has been very insightful. Although hands down the best information on ACA is right here on ER.org.:)

I detested the Helaine Olen article, the condescension for the red state folks was just awful. The way I figure for financially sophisticated person on here or on Wall St. who'd be harmed by Dave poor investment advice, and hatred of all forms of debt and bankruptcy, there is at least 10 people who could benefit by getting out of debt.
 
Listened to Dave for a couple years while driving (in sales). DW couldn't handle him or Suze.

We are living like "no one else" after living like "no one else" (WBOM)...turning 43 tomorrow and driving back down to Mexico with friends after visiting DD in Dallas & helping her move into her new home. Living like no one else I personally know at my age.
 
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