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Old 10-03-2011, 11:50 PM   #181
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Yeah, but it's her job to look good, no matter how many gallons of that orange skin dye she has to use...
... and how many thousands of designer jackets her wardrobe people have to provide for her.... Now that wasn't nice of me. Her studio must be really cold.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:33 AM   #182
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Yeah, but it's her job to look good, no matter how many gallons of that orange skin dye she has to use...
I wonder if she is using that other type of savings bank to protect her future?


'Fat Bank' Opens In Florida, Allowing Patients To Save Fat For Future Use

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We all worry about saving up for the future, but a new "fat bank" is taking deposits to a whole other level.
Patients can have their fat removed via liposuction and tucked away for future use, thanks to a plastic surgeon's new Orlando, Fla., center, the Orlando Sentinel reports.
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Old 10-09-2011, 11:56 PM   #183
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Anyone catch Suze questioning a 46 year old woman who retired from military service after 20 years why she retired? She wasn't berating her but it's none of her damned business!
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:02 AM   #184
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Anyone catch Suze questioning a 46 year old woman who retired from military service after 20 years why she retired? She wasn't berating her but it's none of her damned business!
I just finished writing Wednesday's blog post about it.

I'd have to quibble over the difference between "berating" and "belittling". "Respect" was not anywhere in evidence. Definitely out of line and waaaaay off the reservation.

I'm beginning to feel that I'm wasting my time when I say "In defense of Suze Orman..."

I'd like to think that this was all part of a clever negative publicity program. It's either that or colossal ignorance.
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Old 10-10-2011, 09:17 AM   #185
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I went to website and sent her this:I don't disagree with your advice for SOME people to work until they die or 67. However, some of us are debt-free, own our homes outright, have pensions, and substantial savings. We scrimped and saved so we could retire early and you neither encourage us nor give advice to others who desire to retire early
Good observation, Beryl. But it won't be addressed, just as one will never see women's magazines with articles entitled "How Dorothy Maintains Her Already Perfectly Satisfactory Weight." Most people seem to want to hear about folks who have the same troubles they do.

I cannot abide the glare-eyed intensity that is Sooz's trademark.

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Old 10-10-2011, 02:33 PM   #186
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only the interest you pay on a 401k loan is taxed 2x. nothing else is.

paying back a 401k loan is no different than if you took the money out of the 401k and decided the next day you didnt need it so you put it back.

your income is always taxed unless it goes into something thats tax defered . whether you take no loan, a bank loan or a 401k loan your income is always taxed.

all your doing is replacing untaxed money you took out. think about it in dollars and cents.

if your income is 50k a year that 50k is taxed regardless. no more ,no less whether you take a loan or not. the fact you took 10k of untaxed money out of your plan has nothing to do with your income taxes that year . your just replacing the untaxed money you took out . that money is still only taxed 1 time when taken out down the road.

i wrote her a few times and challenged her to show me at what point you paid more in taxes on your income tax with the loan vs without a loan. no response from her.
I think you are correct and the common confusion, including Suze's (?), comes from the fact that when you repay $100 in loan money, you have to first earn say $133 (for 25% tax) and then this money will be taxed again on withdrawal, which at the surface implies double taxation...

Problem with above statement is that it does not account for the fact that $100 you got from the loan was never taxed (because you deposited pre-tax $100 and I assume 401(k) loans don't tax you when you take the loan out; i.e. you get $100, not $75). So you spent never-taxed money and thus double taxation in above paragraph just offsets the no-taxation on the money you loaned to make it for a single-taxation all-around....

Alternatively, if instead of spending tax-free $100, you repaid the loan with same money, then it's the same as if you never took the loan out (and did not have to earn the $133 to repay it)... and thus again, you'd be taxed once on the principal of the loan...
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:52 AM   #187
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Anyone catch Suze questioning a 46 year old woman who retired from military service after 20 years why she retired? She wasn't berating her but it's none of her damned business!
Here's the audio transcript that I was able to put together from TiVo:
Suze Orman disrespects the military again | Military Retirement & Financial Independence

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“Wait– I’m confused. Am I seeing this correctly? You’re 46 years of age?! Why are you retired?!?”
“But, but you have a good 40 or 50 years left! If you consider inflation, if you consider what’s going to happen with your expenses and your pension stays relatively stable, I only have, like, $320K to generate income for you in addition to your pension for nursing homes and all this!”
“Girlfriend let me play this tune for you– you are de-nied. You don’t have the money to spend $35K on a hobby given that you’re retired now and chances are you want to stay retired. Girlfriend, ain’t– happenin’– on– my– watch…”
I put a Facebook post on her page and used the #SuzeOrman hashtag on Twitter. It'll be interesting to see if there's any response.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:26 PM   #188
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Here's the audio transcript that I was able to put together from TiVo:
Suze Orman disrespects the military again | Military Retirement & Financial Independence



I put a Facebook post on her page and used the #SuzeOrman hashtag on Twitter. It'll be interesting to see if there's any response.
I am getting so mad about her "work till 67 rants" that I am literally about to stop watching all together. I hate to do that because she occaisionally does teach me something.

To me the main point she is not clear about and that is overly conservative about, is she tries to put together a plan that can generate more than enough cash flow to cover expenses, while not reducing any principal. If your goal is to leave a large inheritance to your family, then that is the plan you want to follow. However, most people just want to ensure they do not out live their money and can retire much sooner with comfort that what she is recommending.

You can tell she is taking a lot of heat about this argument because she is getting louder and more adament about the topic on the show.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:30 PM   #189
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I am getting so mad about her "work till 67 rants" that I am literally about to stop watching all together. I hate to do that because she occaisionally does teach me something.
I stopped watching her show too when she embarked on her no-early-retirement-for-anyone campaign. I had been watching for nearly 10 years.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:41 PM   #190
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I stopped watching her show too when she embarked on her no-early-retirement-for-anyone campaign. I had been watching for nearly 10 years.
I have stopped watching it recently too, after watching it for about 5 years. Her retirement issue is a problem, I agree, but to be honest I just have other interests to pursue.
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:19 PM   #191
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Her retirement issue is a problem, I agree, but to be honest I just have other interests to pursue.
I think if there's anything that could hurt Suze more than hordes of pissed-off workers, it'd be apathetic viewers moving on to other interests...
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:26 PM   #192
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I'm an amateur student of body language. This retire-at-67 has become such a mantra to Ms. Suze, you can see how she takes it personally when someone challenges her on it.
As with other topics, she chooses to ignore other relevant factors - being healthy enough by age 67 to enjoy retirement, having enough money before 67 that one does not have to work 'til then, or the unfortunate fact that many people won't have a choice (too often people in the upper ages find themselves excessed out of a job). She is just too full of herself; as another poster wrote a while back, I find I still watch her out of morbid curiosity akin to watching a car accident.
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:48 PM   #193
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I am getting so mad about her "work till 67 rants" that I am literally about to stop watching all together. I hate to do that because she occaisionally does teach me something.
I suspect this may be because she loves what she does enough that she can't possibly imagine that other people positively loathe their j*b and desperately want out.

I don't suppose someone in her position has to endure much of the bureaucracy, bosses, office politics or corporate BS that make people want to get out ASAP, either.

So yeah, easy for her to say if that's her reality; it doesn't match with most of ours.

Or to put it another way, sure, if I loved what I did for a living and could do it entirely on my own terms, I might never completely retire either. But how many of us have (or had) those circumstances?
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Old 10-12-2011, 02:14 PM   #194
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I stopped watching her show too when she embarked on her no-early-retirement-for-anyone campaign.
"No early retirement for anyone" also means "people who no longer need the jobs should hold on to them so those who badly *need* the jobs can't fill them."

Yeah, sounds socially responsible to me.
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Old 10-12-2011, 02:49 PM   #195
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When I was watching the last show where a 47 year old military retired woman was talking, I watched Suze's reaction with great interest. Suze didn't seem to be able to understand why this woman decided to retire. I can't remember exactly what Suze said, but it seemed to me that she thinks nobody healthy and able would want to retire so early. Maybe Suze doesn't realize not everyone loves what they do as much as she does.
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Old 10-12-2011, 07:16 PM   #196
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I just finished writing Wednesday's blog post about it.

I'd have to quibble over the difference between "berating" and "belittling". "Respect" was not anywhere in evidence. Definitely out of line and waaaaay off the reservation.

I'm beginning to feel that I'm wasting my time when I say "In defense of Suze Orman..."

I'd like to think that this was all part of a clever negative publicity program. It's either that or colossal ignorance.
Holy crap! If you made the right choices, having a $4000 a month w/cola pension with affordable health care insurance would be fabulous. And she has some money in the bank as well. And you have to think that accumulating the nest egg she has was the result of spending less than she had all along, so it isn't like she is going to be spending her days crying because she can't have a new lexus. LBYM is the reason you can afford something like her piano if you really want it.
Both my parents died before they were 60. I decided long ago I was going to retire young, even if I ended up in a small apartment when I got older, if I got older. Crazy advice. She should be congratulating her on her good life choices.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:03 PM   #197
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Well I'm all for encouraging FIRE but this one caller now has me thinking. Initially when I posted about this it was just another case of Suze criticizing someone who retired early. After reading the transscript, well the woman was 46 and has ONLY $320k plus her pension? I have no idea the amount of the pension, if it is COLA'ed or her living conditions - hey maybe she lives a very frugal life but wanting to blow $35k on a piano doesn't sound like she is all that frugal. I'm thinking that unless that pension is pretty hefty having only $320k is just not enough considering she is only 46, at a 4% SWR that's just $12,800 a year. Now I don't take anything from investments yet as I am able to live off my pension no COLA but I'm early 60's and I have a lot more than $320k. A lot of people here FIRE'd in their 40's and early 50's but from things I have read people here typically have way more than $320k also.

So at age 46 with only $320k I'm wondering how this will play out for her assuming she lives another 40 years! Maybe I'm becoming a belt and suspenders kinda guy....
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:15 PM   #198
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Well I'm all for encouraging FIRE but this one caller now has me thinking. Initially when I posted about this it was just another case of Suze criticizing someone who retired early. After reading the transscript, well the woman was 46 and has ONLY $320k plus her pension? I have no idea the amount of the pension, if it is COLA'ed or her living conditions - hey maybe she lives a very frugal life but wanting to blow $35k on a piano doesn't sound like she is all that frugal. I'm thinking that unless that pension is pretty hefty having only $320k is just not enough considering she is only 46, at a 4% SWR that's just $12,800 a year. Now I don't take anything from investments yet as I am able to live off my pension no COLA but I'm early 60's and I have a lot more than $320k. A lot of people here FIRE'd in their 40's and early 50's but from things I have read people here typically have way more than $320k also.
So at age 46 with only $320k I'm wondering how this will play out for her assuming she lives another 40 years! Maybe I'm becoming a belt and suspenders kinda guy....
Should I have copied the entire blog post for everybody?
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In Janes case, she has the following:
* $4025/month military pension
* $2836/month expenses (presumably nearly $1200/month cash flow)
* No debt
* $21K in cash
* $298K of investments
* $124K in retirement funds (probably the TSP and an IRA)
The military pension has a COLA. So next January it'll go up roughly 3.5% to $4165 and she'll have over $1300 of monthly positive cash flow. And Jan 2013 it'll probably go up again.

The woman is not only letting her investments compound on their own, she's saving an additional $16K/year. So 40 years from now, in inflation-adjusted 2012 dollars, her $320K will have been boosted by another $640K. (Unless, of course, she hedonistically and foolishly blows it on a Steinway and piano tuners.) Plus the $124K that will have compounded faster than inflation, which Suze doesn't count because the woman can't even spell 72(t).

Look up poster "Boxkicker". He retired from the Navy on much much less than Jane, with savings much lower than her, and is using the GI bill to get a master's degree while living frugally. His pension and his part-time earnings are still less than her income yet he's doing just fine, and possibly adding to his stash.

Let's not forget, either, that both of these people will be collecting Social Security, too-- at the Suze-endorsed age of 70, no doubt.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:59 PM   #199
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I retired after 30 years of work as a wildland fireman... at age 50. During that 30 years, I averaged 500 to 1,000 hours of overtime per year. Missed a lot of family birthdays, and had a grand total of one 4th of July, two Labor days, and maybe three or four Memorial Holidays off.

During that 30 years, I never watched any type of retirement shows, on TV... But I did go to two early retirement seminars, sponsored by my work. I asked only one question...I asked if it was a "good" or "bad" idea to go out early at age 50. The instructor said "Take the money and run!" "You're young enough, you could go out and get another job, or do volunteer work"..."or some other labor of love"

So, what's my point... Going out at age 50 was the best thing that I have ever done for myself, and my family! NEVER!!! Let anyone make you feel bad for retiring early! Always!!! Wish others good thoughts, if they can do the same thing! In closing, I didn't invent the "system", I just worked it....

Anyway, out of curiosity I looked up some of Suze's sound bites on the WWW... She has a good group of writers working for her!

"People first, then money, then things"

"Im in a relationship with life. My life is just out there. Im on the road every day. I love my life"

"Just because one of you earns the paycheck doesn't mean that person should lord over how the money is handled"

"A big part of financial freedom is having your heart and mind free from worry about the what-ifs of life

"When you undervalue who you are, the world will undervalue what you do and vice versa"

"Many people are in the dark when it comes to money, and I'm going to turn on the lights"

"Money is a topic that touches all races, all religions, all sexes, all ages, all tax brackets. It's a universal language that truly has been held up to us in society as a thing that determines whether we are successful, worthy, whether we have contributed something to life or not"

She sounds more like a Life Coach, than...

One more thing...I never realized that I was following "The Old Girls" advice... without ever reading her "stuff", until now....funny how life works sometimes.


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Old 10-13-2011, 08:34 AM   #200
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"People first, then money, then things"
I've heard Suze say this. But how is someone who is *clearly* financially ready to retire before the "usual" age putting people before money if they keep working when (a) they don't need to and (b) they'd rather not? Seems like they are putting money first.
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