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Old 07-15-2011, 06:37 AM   #161
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My obsessive/compulsive side 8>) came out, so I had to work out the numbers and see for myself. I agree with mathjak. I just did a simplistic example and sure enough only the interest is taxed from previously taxed money.
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Old 07-15-2011, 03:15 PM   #162
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only the interest you pay on a 401k loan is taxed 2x. nothing else is.

i wrote her a few times and challenged her to show me at what point you paid more in taxes on your income tax with the loan vs without a loan. no response from her.
I wrote her as well a few years back when this started. No response. It's amazing that someone can continue to give misinformation. - However consider the network - CNBC. As others on this forum have suggested, watch CNBC, with the sound turned off.
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Old 07-15-2011, 03:38 PM   #163
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From everything I've read about Suze Orman, I'm glad that I've never seen one of her TV shows. I did see the front cover of one of her books once, probably flipped through it and decided it wasn't my cup of tea.

When I first started learning about this stuff, I read a lot by Tom and David Gardner and the rest of the Motley Fool team back when their site was new. I also read a book by Andrew Tobias. I forget which title, but it was good general common-sense advice for those wanting to save and invest.

Suze Orman has never been relevant to me, and once I flag someone as not of interest, I tune them out. In some cases it's a bit of a character flaw, but in this case, I think it has served me well.
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:56 PM   #164
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My obsessive/compulsive side 8>) came out, so I had to work out the numbers and see for myself. I agree with mathjak. I just did a simplistic example and sure enough only the interest is taxed from previously taxed money.
its simple... its no more than replacing what you took out . it has nothing to do with income tax. your income is always taxed regardless..

at no point do you pay anymore or any less in taxes because you took or didnt take a loan. your taxes that year are exactley the same.
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Old 10-02-2011, 05:51 PM   #165
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Bumping up the most recent Suze thread to rant. I watch her show weekly and agree with her most of the time - especially the 'Can I Afford It' advice. However, she has been on the 'work until you reach full retirement age (67-68 )' kick for too long. Yesterday, she referenced a letter from a viewer who complained about it. She then told the audience why she doesn't recommend early retirement (living longer, can't depend on home equity, debts, no pensions, etc.).

I went to website and sent her this:
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I don't disagree with your advice for SOME people to work until they die or 67. However, some of us are debt-free, own our homes outright, have pensions, and substantial savings. We scrimped and saved so we could retire early and you neither encourage us nor give advice to others who desire to retire early. I take issue with this. I retired 8 months ago at 56 and I do believe that I can stay this way and even take SS at 62, if I want to do so.
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Old 10-02-2011, 05:55 PM   #166
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Great response, Beryl! I like Suze but her constant repetition of the advice not to retire early seems a little odd. Maybe she is just too rich to relate to the common man, or woman.
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Old 10-02-2011, 05:58 PM   #167
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Great response, Beryl! I like Suze but her advice not to retire early (ever) seems a little odd. Maybe she is just too rich to relate to the common man, or woman.
My take is her tough love approach to finances has hardened over time to curmudgeoness status: "You kids get off my lawn - and don't even think about retiring!"
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Old 10-02-2011, 06:19 PM   #168
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Besides if most ignore her advice and RE. Who would be her audience?
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Old 10-02-2011, 06:27 PM   #169
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Besides if most ignore her advice and RE. Who would be her audience?
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:40 PM   #170
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I think she is trying to justify her own working at a later age. If that's what she thinks and wants to do, well, have at it. In the mean time I'll be home relaxing.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:37 AM   #171
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Bumping up the most recent Suze thread to rant. I watch her show weekly and agree with her most of the time - especially the 'Can I Afford It' advice. However, she has been on the 'work until you reach full retirement age (67-68 )' kick for too long. Yesterday, she referenced a letter from a viewer who complained about it. She then told the audience why she doesn't recommend early retirement (living longer, can't depend on home equity, debts, no pensions, etc.).
Gotta consider the type of person Suze deals with. As Walt34 has said about the other end of the retirement bell curve, some of these people are just trying to survive the next year-- let alone get out of debt. Retirement isn't on their radar and they can't even spell ER. Suze loses nothing by pissing off our demographic.

Suze told the lottery winner ($3.5M after taxes) to pay off all her debts (mortgage, car loan, everything) and then set aside $300K for "whatever" (entertainment, kid's education, fantasy travel). Her advice for the remaining ~$2.8M was to "diversify" it by investing in municipal bonds. By "diversify" I think she means buying them in 40-50 states, but that wasn't exactly made clear. The only asset class, outside of cash in her checking account, was munis.

So this 40-something woman will be receiving roughly $140K/year in 5% bond income. Presumably she can quit her Costco job but that wasn't discussed either.

I think the main reason the lottery winner is satisfied with munis is because she's absolutely terrified of two things: (1) managing her own money, and (2) the stock market. She ended up on the Suze Orman show after her teenage daughter turned her in for fear that Mom would end up buying indexed annuities from the crowd of "financial advisors" that had gathered.

I'd love to hear a followup on this story in a few years. The winner was one of a group of 20 but there was no mention of what the other 19 are planning to do with their shares.
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Old 10-03-2011, 06:58 AM   #172
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If you watched Suze's body language during that rant about "everyone" needing to work until 67, and the shrillness of her voice, you can tell she takes it as an affront to challenge her. There was only one sensible thing she said - she referenced to people being under water and little to no savings, and for those people early retirement is not a viable option. But she made no allowance for people in better financial shape. She is way too full of herself.
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Old 10-03-2011, 07:37 AM   #173
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I think she is trying to justify her own working at a later age. If that's what she thinks and wants to do, well, have at it. In the mean time I'll be home relaxing.
I agree. She thinks if she is still working (and has millions in the bank) then everybody should. Problem is most of us don't have a job we "love" like she presumably does.
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:06 AM   #174
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I think a healthy skepticism regarding any of the TV celebrity figures whether in medicine, finance, love, relationships, etc. is warranted. At some point they cross the line from being a medical, financial.... professional to being an entertainer who needs ratings to survive and make money.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:57 AM   #175
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Suze is a wonderful tool for teaching personal financial responsibility to teenagers. We've had many productive conversations around the show, and "Suze's rules" are easily understood.

But someone whose message is attractive to teens is probably going to have a tough time connecting with the majority of an adult audience. She's getting them from the lower end of the bell curve, not the upper parts.

For those keeping track, Suze recently celebrated her 60th. In six or seven years it'll be interesting to see whether she decides to move on from the show or whether it's canceled out from under her.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:00 AM   #176
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In six or seven years it'll be interesting to see whether she decides to move on from the show or whether it's canceled out from under her.
Maybe she will last as long as Andy?

The Clicker - Andy Rooney says so long in final '60 Minutes' sign-off
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:07 AM   #177
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Suze is a wonderful tool...
You should have stopped right there.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:37 AM   #178
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Maybe she will last as long as Andy?
I bet I'm not the only one who reacted "He's still alive doing 60 Minutes?!?"

I guess this sets a new upper limit for Warren Buffett's career aspirations...
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:56 PM   #179
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Suze recently celebrated her 60th.
Wow, she looks good.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:34 PM   #180
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Wow, she looks good.
Yeah, but it's her job to look good, no matter how many gallons of that orange skin dye she has to use...
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