Table the variable annuity jihad?

[REWahoo]

Way to add value to the thread.

Art, is it true you have to give up your sense of humor to qualify for an annuity sales position?

 

[Art G]

Yes. Is it true you're on consignment to close down every thread that mentions the words "variable" or "annuity" or "strategy"?

 

[Sarah in SC]

Sarah, I have no problem whatsoever with anyone saying the product sucks. Just include your reasons for thinking so. If you were to post your reasons and I can respond, whether it be positively or negatively, we're both bound to learn something.
So, you wanna go first?

See quote below.

 

[Art G]

See quote below.

WOW! And you claim to be a professional?? So you're response is, "I don't want to talk about it!"
That's ok, my daughter uses the same response when I ask her about her grades.

 

[REWahoo]

Yes.

Thanks, that certainly explains a lot.

Is it true you're on consignment to close down every thread that mentions the words "variable" or "annuity"....?

Not a chance, your threads have way too much entertainment value. Carson paid Ed McMahon big bucks for what you're giving away free!

 

[Art G]

Thanks, that certainly explains a lot.



Not a chance, your threads have way too much entertainment value. Carson paid Ed McMahon big bucks for what you're giving away free!

Well then at the very least, you're getting from my posts what I certainly can't seem to get from yours. Value.

 

[Art G]

BTW wahoo.....I'm wondering what your occupation is/was? I'd like the chance to make fun of it, insult it, and then ask you where your sense of humor is.

 

[REWahoo]

Well then at the very least, you're getting from my posts what I certainly can't seem to get from yours. Value.

Hey, you're the one who [-]sold his soul to the devil[/-] gave up your sense of humor to sell annuities. Occupational hazard I suppose...


EDIT: Mods, please don't close this thread. I'll stop engaging Art in witty repartee, I promise...

 

[Sarah in SC]

I know I am tired of hearing about the many virtues of variable annuities, penis enlargers, oxycontin, etc. How about we drop the first subject, at least?

Can we reopen the discussion on "enhancement" products now?

 

[Art G]

Can we reopen the discussion on "enhancement" products now?

Sure, if you're talking about bonus products I'm not a fan...you see, that wasn't so painful, now was it?

 

[Art G]

Hey, you're the one who [-]sold his soul to the devil[/-] gave up your sense of humor to sell annuities. Occupational hazard I suppose...


EDIT: Mods, please don't close this thread. I'll stop engaging Art in witty repartee, I promise...

Ohhhh, you're posting about the devil. So I guess you were an exorcist?

 

[FinanceDude]

Ohhhh, you're posting about the devil. So I guess you were an exorcist?

 

[nun]

Let's get this back on track. What are the pros and cons of VAs?
I can think of a lot of cons, expensive, commission fees, surrender of principal, poor returns.

I have TIAA VAs and these seem to be out of the ordinary for VAs having no commissions and expense ratios around 0.5%. Also the TIAA Traditional Annuity is a good option for the fixed income portion of a portfolio eliminating the requirement for a CD ladder.

 

[Nords]

Good idea.

Are you someone with a vested interest or someone who can knowledgably write about VAs? Because it's quite possible that the two categories are mutually exclusive... and you're sounding like a volunteer!

Not a chance, your threads have way too much entertainment value. Carson paid Ed McMahon big bucks for what you're giving away free!

Hey, you're the one who [-]sold his soul to the devil[/-] gave up your sense of humor to sell annuities.
EDIT: Mods, please don't close this thread. I'll stop engaging Art in witty repartee, I promise...

I'm thinking more Rodney Dangerfield than Ed McMahon, although there's a good bit of [-]schadenfreude[/-] irony from a guy who earns millions making people laugh and then can't manage to handle his own money.

But judging from the carpet-bombing of this thread, you're just driving up Art's post count...

 

[FIREd]

I have a VA, and this is by far my worst "investment". The screams I hear everyday are the sounds of my returns being eaten alive by fees, the investments inside the VA are murky and underperforming at best, I can't take my money out without paying huge penalties, etc... I made a terrible mistake when I bought it. I was stupid, stupid, stupid...

But if people want to keep talking about it, then fine, knock yourselves out...

P.S.: I am trying to compute the actual annual return on my VA money since I started it in 2001. I have been busy entering the data for the past 7 years in Quicken. I will report here soon...

 

[nun]

I have a VA, and this is by far my worst "investment". The screams I hear everyday are the sounds of my returns being eaten alive by fees, the investments inside the VA are murky and underperforming at best, I can't take my money out without paying huge penalties, etc... I made a terrible mistake when I bought it. I was stupid, stupid, stupid...

What VA is it, what are the fees etc.

 

[M Paquette]

I have tried to draft people who don't have a vested interest in the product to write a FAQ. No luck so far. Anyone interested, pm me.

Heh, heh... This should be good for a massive blast from the annuity sales team, or at least some litigation for revealing Trade Secrets.

 

[Independent]

I think the notion of "free speech" is based on the practical observation that we learn more if we let everyone talk.

Notice that even though everyone can talk, nobody is obligated to listen.

No reason to prohibit discussions of financial products. If reading the discussion is a waste of your time, then skip those threads.

 

[Martha]

I have tried to draft people who don't have a vested interest in the product to write a FAQ. No luck so far. Anyone interested, pm me.

I have a volunteer!

 

[brewer12345]

No reason to prohibit discussions of financial products. If reading the discussion is a waste of your time, then skip those threads.

Spam away, then. But in that case I may take the "not listening" part to the point of departure.

 

[harley]

I am reading a book by Ed Slott - The Retirement Savings Time Bomb and How To Defuse It. I respect him for the most part. He mentioned that in his opinion there is a good reason to have VAs within a tax defered IRA. However, he hasn't explained it yet. If this thread is still active when I get the explaination I'll post it.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Can we reopen the discussion on "enhancement" products now?

What type do you like?

 

[FinanceDude]

I have a volunteer!

Yea!! I'm off the hook Nords tried to put me on.......

 

[FIREd]

What VA is it, what are the fees etc.

Our VA is in an IRA and was opened in mid 2001 by our friendly Ameriprise FA. If I remember correctly fees are around 2-3% a year.

OK, well the VA's returns were actually pretty easy to compute because we invested a lump sum in mid 2001 (Rollover IRA).

Doing XIRR on the VA, I get, as of yesterday, an annual return of -1.2% since I opened the account.

The money has been allocated as follows (no change since 2001): 30% equity income, 20% small cap, 20% mid cap, 20% large international and 10% REIT (in other words, the money is invested 100% in equities).

Had the money been invested at Vanguard (VG equity income, VG small cap index, VG mid cap index, VG total international index and VG REIT index), the money would have returned +2% annualized between mid 2001 and yesterday (I used total return data from Morningstar to compute the return).

So on average, by investing inside a VA, my average annual return has been 3.2% lower than it would have been at Vanguard.

How much of a difference would that make?
$10,000 invested at Vanguard in 2001 would be worth $11,486 today.
$10,000 invested in the VA in 2001 would be worth $9,129 today (20.5% lower than the $11,486 at Vanguard).

So effectively the VA's high fees have wiped out any potential gains. In a rapidly appreciating market environment high fees may be easier to swallow, but in a flat-ish market environment, high fees are killers!

 

[kyounge1956]

I have tried to draft people who don't have a vested interest in the product to write a FAQ. No luck so far. Anyone interested, pm me.

I have a volunteer!

What's the most frequently asked question—how & when can I get outta this thing without the surrender charge eating me alive?