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Old 12-08-2017, 10:28 AM   #221
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Here's some news on the stock FIFO sales:

Dozens of House Republicans are pushing back against a provision in the Senate’s tax bill that would cause investors to pay millions of dollars more in taxes.

In a letter to Senate leaders on Thursday, 41 House Republicans urged the lawmakers to drop the first-in, first-out provision that would govern how investment gains and losses are taxed when an investor sells part of a position.


Dec 7, 5:57pm
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/tax-bill-2017
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Old 12-09-2017, 10:27 AM   #222
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Could the upcoming GOP tax reform have an effect on HSAs?
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:37 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by tessaduncan View Post
Could the upcoming GOP tax reform have an effect on HSAs?
I've seen nothing reported regarding changes to HSAs in either bill.
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Old 12-09-2017, 03:02 PM   #224
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I was thinking some more about the change in Roth rechacterizations.

Since the bills provisions are effective for tax years beginning after December 31, 2017, I'm interpreting that in 2018 we can do recharaterizations of Roth conversions done in 2017 since those recharaterizations reduce 2017 taxable income. However, it is not particularly clear from the language in the bill.

I have a question into my Vanguard rep as to whether Vanguard will allow recharterizations of 2017 Roth conversions in 2018 or not. Not sure if I will get an answer, but if I do I'll post it.
As expected, I got a non-answer from Vanguard:

Quote:
Thank you for taking the time to compile and send your message. We are still largely unaware of the impacts of the new tax reform, and what new regulations will ultimately be passed. Unfortunately, we are not tax trained here, so the best way to understand the impacts of the new bills would be to work with your tax professional to see what the potential implications of a recharectorization would be.
I wrote back and pressed him:

Quote:
[rep name], I can guarantee you that someone at Valley Forge should have a view on the question... you need to escalate the question to find him or her. I acknowledge that there are uncertainties as to what will ultimately be passed and certain assumptions will need to be made and that is fine. However, the future prohibition on Roth recharacterizations is in both the House and Senate bills as is the effective date of the law being for tax years beginning after December 31, 2017 so with respect to this specific issue a lot is known.

The essence of the question is whether a recharacterazation of a 2017 Roth conversion in 2018 relates to the 2017 tax year or not. If you guys don't know, you should be talking with your contacts at PwC or the IRS.

To be clear, I am NOT looking for tax advice.... so let me reframe the question.... it is a transaction processing question... when I call Vanguard in February 2018 seeking to do a partial recharacterization of my December 2017 Roth conversion will Vanguard accept my instructions and process the recharacterization transaction? Yes or no?

Obviously, my tax professional can't tell me if Vanguard will process the transaction or not... that is something that only Vanguard can answer and the answer has implications for customers currently doing Roth conversons so time is of the essence.
FWIW, I expect a non-answer response to the re-framed question as well but it is still fun to be a pain in his side.
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Old 12-09-2017, 03:12 PM   #225
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FWIW, I expect a non-answer response to the re-framed question as well but it is still fun to be a pain in his side.
Not surprised. Wells Fargo at least understood why I was asking the question, but they were still unable to answer.
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:49 PM   #226
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Not surprised. Wells Fargo at least understood why I was asking the question, but they were still unable to answer.
@pb4uski, thanks for pressing them on it, and I'd be super happy if you can get an answer and share it here.
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:57 PM   #227
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It's a no win game trying to answer most of the question (for a bank or brokerage) about details of the tax bill. The bill could change or the IRS could implement rules that are somewhat different than how they guessed it would end up. Some things we will just have to wait on.
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Old 12-10-2017, 08:45 AM   #228
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It's a no win game trying to answer most of the question (for a bank or brokerage) about details of the tax bill. The bill could change or the IRS could implement rules that are somewhat different than how they guessed it would end up. Some things we will just have to wait on.
Much of the language is sufficiently vague already. Making any significant investment or other financial moves that are totally dependent on new tax rules is risky. I am making a big DAF donation of appreciated shares but there is no downside if the entire proposed tax law change unraveled completely.
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:32 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by catotx View Post
Here's some news on the stock FIFO sales:

Dozens of House Republicans are pushing back against a provision in the Senate’s tax bill that would cause investors to pay millions of dollars more in taxes.

In a letter to Senate leaders on Thursday, 41 House Republicans urged the lawmakers to drop the first-in, first-out provision that would govern how investment gains and losses are taxed when an investor sells part of a position.


Dec 7, 5:57pm
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/tax-bill-2017
Thanks for sharing that news.
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:51 AM   #230
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I see very little news about what is happening with the discussions and negotiations over these bills. Am I missing something? Did Congress go home on Christmas break and is everyone phoning it in? Or are there feverish negotiations going on in smoke-free back rooms and we will only hear about the result when the president is shaking hands with Congressional leaders in a photo-op?
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:11 AM   #231
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I see very little news about what is happening with the discussions and negotiations over these bills. Am I missing something? Did Congress go home on Christmas break and is everyone phoning it in? Or are there feverish negotiations going on in smoke-free back rooms and we will only hear about the result when the president is shaking hands with Congressional leaders in a photo-op?
Their goal is to have a final bill by Xmas so that the law can take effect in 2018.

There may not be enough time to air what changes are made before they take the votes.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:29 AM   #232
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Their goal is to have a final bill by Xmas so that the law can take effect in 2018.

There may not be enough time to air what changes are made before they take the votes.
I was looking for the blow-by-blow analysis...

The stated goal is not meaningful. Lots of stated goals never get achieved. I'm interested in whether I should make certain financial decisions based on what will be in effect next year and executing before the end of the year. For example, I keep hearing there is movement on property and state and local taxes. If they break for Christmas on Christmas Eve, after the photo op, it's going to be difficult to get the bills paid and the orders placed by December 29th.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:39 AM   #233
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I found this site helpful.
Tax Plan Calculator by Maxim Lott

maybe too simplistic for some.

The Standard Deduction, dropping the ACA requirement and giving a break on pass through llc, will all be big savings for me.
Interesting about family tax credit. In the tax plan calculator by Lott it shows me getting a 600 credit under the house plan even though my income is slightly over 100k and 0 children and dependents. I can't find this anywhere but it sure does help if it is true.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:49 AM   #234
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I see very little news about what is happening with the discussions and negotiations over these bills. Am I missing something? Did Congress go home on Christmas break and is everyone phoning it in? Or are there feverish negotiations going on in smoke-free back rooms and we will only hear about the result when the president is shaking hands with Congressional leaders in a photo-op?
The House and Senate have each approved similar but different tax bills. The bills are currently in conference committee where a small subset of representatives from the House and the Senate attempt to compromise the two bills into a single bill. The resulting bill wil be voted on by each body and if approved, will be sent to the president for his signature.

I doubt that we will be hearing much until the bills clear the conference committee.
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:04 AM   #235
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Interesting about family tax credit. In the tax plan calculator by Lott it shows me getting a 600 credit under the house plan even though my income is slightly over 100k and 0 children and dependents. I can't find this anywhere but it sure does help if it is true.
Oh,yeah, got it now.
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:25 AM   #236
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It seems that charitable contributions will have less tax impact if you no longer itemize due to the elimination of certain other deductions. I was reading about the Schwab donor funds where you can prefund with highly appreciated stocks, not be subject to cap gains and get the deduction for the FMV of those stocks in the year in which you fund the account. Would a strategy make sense to say fund the account say every 5 years to get a big enough donation to itemize and then distribute to the charities annually from the fund?
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:28 AM   #237
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Here is a link to both the House and senate bills. H.R. 1 & S. 1
https://www.congress.gov/search?q=%7...wType=expanded
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:29 AM   #238
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On MEET THE PRESS this morning they were discussing possibility of combining SALT & Property Taxes to max of 10k. If so, we will wind up about even. Anyone else hear of that (perhaps not on TV)?
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:47 AM   #239
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It seems that charitable contributions will have less tax impact if you no longer itemize due to the elimination of certain other deductions. I was reading about the Schwab donor funds where you can prefund with highly appreciated stocks, not be subject to cap gains and get the deduction for the FMV of those stocks in the year in which you fund the account. Would a strategy make sense to say fund the account say every 5 years to get a big enough donation to itemize and then distribute to the charities annually from the fund?
Yes, it was discussed earlier in this thread, I believe, and I started a separate thread as the topic is not necessarily related to the tax bill. Donor-Advised Fund
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:47 AM   #240
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It seems that charitable contributions will have less tax impact if you no longer itemize due to the elimination of certain other deductions. I was reading about the Schwab donor funds where you can prefund with highly appreciated stocks, not be subject to cap gains and get the deduction for the FMV of those stocks in the year in which you fund the account. Would a strategy make sense to say fund the account say every 5 years to get a big enough donation to itemize and then distribute to the charities annually from the fund?
Yes, it would, assuming that you're somewhat below the itemization threshhold without the charitable donation. It's similar to the existing practice of bunching deductions. I've read multiple reports of people setting up DAFs this year and making contributions for exactly this reason.

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On MEET THE PRESS this morning they were discussing possibility of combining SALT & Property Taxes to max of 10k. If so, we will wind up about even. Anyone else hear of that (perhaps not on TV)?
I haven't, but I do know that those two deductions are different in the existing bills. I think they also are significant both in the impact they have on tax revenues as well as the impact they have on various people in various states. It would not surprise me at all if the end result is some mixture of the House and Senate versions, and it would not surprise me to see proposals floated in the media to see what the public reaction might be to various ideas.
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