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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-19-2005, 07:42 AM   #61
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

Don't get in too much of a tizzy over this stuff, guys.* The chances of any of this passing is non-zero, but probably about as close as theoretically possible (I can imagine a situation ivolving space aliens, but that's about it).
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-19-2005, 08:08 AM   #62
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Don't get in too much of a tizzy over this stuff, guys.* The chances of any of this passing is non-zero, but probably about as close as theoretically possible (I can imagine a situation ivolving space aliens, but that's about it).
I think you're right.* Last night I happened to catch a portion of this tax panel discussion on C-SPAN.* What a joke!* Not even the panel members in charge of creating and recommending these changes knew what they were talking about, nor could they agree on exactly what changes to make.*

They couldn't even figure out what to call their new tax scheme plan, so they ended up calling it plan A and plan B.* Even one of the political guys on the panel admitted it would be a hard sell.
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-19-2005, 07:06 PM   #63
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Don't get in too much of a tizzy over this stuff, guys.* The chances of any of this passing is non-zero, but probably about as close as theoretically possible (I can imagine a situation ivolving space aliens, but that's about it).
DOA IMHO!* Which is a shame.* The tax code is the most frustrating bunch of nonsense ever conceived.* Just thinking about how much work I have to do every year for the privilege of writing someone else a giant check makes me furious.* * * ** ** .* .* .*


My forms from last year's taxes:
Federal Form 1040
Schedule A - Itemized Deductions
Schedule B - Interest and Ordinary Dividends
Schedule C - Profit or Loss from Business
Schedule D - Capital gains & Losses
Schedule SE - Self Employment Tax
Form 1116 - Foreign Tax Credit
Form 6251 - Alternative Minimum Tax - Individuals
Form 1116 - Foreign Tax Credit (Alternative Minimum Tax)
Form 4562 - Depreciation and Amortization
Federal Estimated Tax Worksheet

New York Form IT - 203
New Jersey Form 1040
NJ Schedule A - Credit for income or wage taxes paid to other jurisdiction
NJ - 2210 Underpayment of estimated tax by individuals
NJ 1040-ES Estimated tax worksheet



I think I would be willing to pay even more in taxes if they would just make it a tad easier to comply with the f-ing law.*
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-19-2005, 07:10 PM   #64
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

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Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
I think I would be willing to pay even more in taxes if they would just make it a tad easier to comply with the f-ing law.*
Bite your tongue! The IRS might be reading this board too!!
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-19-2005, 07:14 PM   #65
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
DOA IMHO!* Which is a shame.* The tax code is the most frustrating bunch of nonsense ever conceived.* Just thinking about how much work I have to do every year for the privilege of writing someone else a giant check makes me furious.* * * ** ** .* .* .*


My forms from last year's taxes:
Federal Form 1040
Schedule A - Itemized Deductions
Schedule B - Interest and Ordinary Dividends
Schedule C - Profit or Loss from Business
Schedule D - Capital gains & Losses
Schedule SE - Self Employment Tax
Form 1116 - Foreign Tax Credit
Form 6251 - Alternative Minimum Tax - Individuals
Form 1116 - Foreign Tax Credit (Alternative Minimum Tax)
Form 4562 - Depreciation and Amortization
Federal Estimated Tax Worksheet

New York Form IT - 203
New Jersey Form 1040
NJ Schedule A - Credit for income or wage taxes paid to other jurisdiction
NJ - 2210 Underpayment of estimated tax by individuals
NJ 1040-ES Estimated tax worksheet



I think I would be willing to pay even more in taxes if they would just make it a tad easier to comply with the f-ing law.*
Me? * 1040A (3 pages) and IL1040 (2 pages). *Very quick and easy.
There was a time though when I had papers spread all over the house for about a month while I tried to assemble and plan my returns. *Don't miss
that much. *

JG
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-19-2005, 07:27 PM   #66
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
Don't get in too much of a tizzy over this stuff, guys.* The chances of any of this passing is non-zero, but probably about as close as theoretically possible (I can imagine a situation ivolving space aliens, but that's about it).
I do think there is enough steam to do something esp. about the AMT, but it sounds like something else will be taken off the table. I like my state tax deduction when I itemize, though. I think estate taxes are the way to go since when I am dead, I dont really care to much
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-19-2005, 07:39 PM   #67
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

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I think estate taxes are the way to go since when I am dead, I dont really care to much
This is a great idea. I will gladly swap a 0% rate while I'm alive for a 100% "death" tax!

(That the paperwork is someone else’s problem is just icing on the cake)
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-19-2005, 07:53 PM   #68
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

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Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
This is a great idea.* I will gladly swap a 0% rate while I'm alive for a 100% "death" tax!*

(That the paperwork is someone else’s problem is just icing on the cake)
I'm kind of leaning that way myself, even though I currently pay no income
taxes. I have struggled with the issues which will linger after I am gone.
It's awfully tempting to leave the mess for others to sort out.

JG
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-19-2005, 10:16 PM   #69
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

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Originally Posted by . . . Yrs to Go
This is a great idea.* I will gladly swap a 0% rate while I'm alive for a 100% "death" tax!*
I'd be for an estate tax if there weren't so many loopholes in it. Rich people don't pay estate taxes, they just shelter their assets in a trust. So, the only thing elimination of the estate tax does is to save you a couple grand on legal fees. Works for me.
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-19-2005, 10:25 PM   #70
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

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Originally Posted by wab
I'd be for an estate tax if there weren't so many loopholes in it. Rich people don't pay estate taxes, they just shelter their assets in a trust. So, the only thing elimination of the estate tax does is to save you a couple grand on legal fees. Works for me.
Most trusts are subject to estate tax. Have to do something like a charitable remainder trust where all the money goes to charity when you die.
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-19-2005, 10:38 PM   #71
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

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Most trusts are subject to estate tax.* Have to do something like a charitable remainder trust where all the money goes to charity when you die.*
Wow, I'm out of date. They closed the loopholes in 1986. So is the CRT income beneficiary taxed any differently than they would be if I were alive?

And who would possibly lobby against an estate tax? Kids? It seems like lawyers and insurance companies would be all over this. Even a lot of rich people think an estate tax makes sense.
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-19-2005, 11:35 PM   #72
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

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. . .And who would possibly lobby against an estate tax?* *Kids?* *It seems like lawyers and insurance companies would be all over this.* *Even a lot of rich people think an estate tax makes sense.
I've always wondered about this. How did this become such a knee-jerk political issue? I know a number of people who don't even have enough net worth to be affected by the inheritance tax debate, but they get positively passionate about how it should be eliminated.
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-20-2005, 12:10 AM   #73
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

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Even a lot of rich people think an estate tax makes sense.
It does make sense because it helps spread money around the country. This government does not want money to get more and more concentrated in the hands of a few to create super dynasties. The lifeline of this country comes mainly from the middle class. The estate tax helps maintain that middle class. It's actually more of a penalty than a tax. A penalty for making TOO much money.

In this country, the more you make, the more you will get hit on the head by the government. This government not only feeds off of taxes, but also gets large cash infusions from levies, fines, and penalties. This is true for corporations as well as for individuals. It's a "Robin Hood" mentality.
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-20-2005, 03:10 AM   #74
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

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How did this become such a knee-jerk political issue?
Crowd psychology. The mob just follows along, without regard to what is being stated.
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-20-2005, 09:03 AM   #75
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

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It does make sense because it helps spread money around the country.* This government does not want money to get more and more concentrated in the hands of a few to create super dynasties.* The lifeline of this country comes mainly from the middle class.* The estate tax helps maintain that middle class.* It's actually more of a penalty than a tax.* A penalty for making TOO much money.

In this country, the more you make, the more you will get hit on the head by the government.* This government not only feeds off of taxes, but also gets large cash infusions from levies, fines, and penalties.* This is true for corporations as well as for individuals.* It's a "Robin Hood" mentality.
Taxation has always been a Robin Hood mentality in this country. The very people that create jobs and keep the economy going are the ones that are penalized for being successful at it. Most people are willing to pay a fair tax but when it becomes conficatory, then it is no longer fair. The estate tax is no different. I have friends that had to sell the family farm (4 generations or more) because they could not pay the estate tax on it. Small family businesses fall under the same rules as megawealth tycoons.

Trusts are taxed but sheltered (generation skipping) so the surviving spouse can use the money without paying taxes on her husband's estate. Once she dies, the tax laws get real complicated real quick and the next generation may or may not have to pay estate taxes. There are limits on the amount you can shelter so if you plan on leaving some of your vast wealth to your kids or grandkids, then make sure you spend down your estate enough before you die to keep them from having to give most of it (60%+) to Fed. and state gov.

I hate the whole concept of Robin Hood taxation. Make it balanced and make it fair for all taxpayers.
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-20-2005, 10:02 AM   #76
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

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I have friends that had to sell the family farm (4 generations or more) because they could not pay the estate tax on it.
That problem is a result of the current tax system not having common sense built into the law. An easy change could be made to the tax laws either exempting farms from the estate tax or at least lowering the tax burden on farms.

This is a classic case that proves the power to tax is the power to destroy.

Taxation based on total asset valuation is a major problem, and the problem gets worse as the assets become more non-liquid.

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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-20-2005, 10:42 AM   #77
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

I suppose we could (and do) argue ad nauseum about taxes and spending...

But in the end, we need to pay for what we spend, so if the government, and the "people", by extension, decide to spend $X trillion, then the revenue HAS to match. End of story, IMHO...*
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-20-2005, 10:47 AM   #78
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

Well, I'm going to go out on a shaky limb here...I'm going to say it anyway, because that's the kind of gut I got.
I say we can raise more revenue and balance the books by having an entrance fee into the US for non-citizens kind of like DisneyLand. Also, tax the Canadians for their use of our culture.
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-20-2005, 11:03 AM   #79
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

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Also, tax the Canadians for their use of our culture.*
Careful, you might give them the idea to sue us for the effects our culture has on them. Kind of like dumping toxic waste on your neighbor's lawn.
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.
Old 10-20-2005, 11:46 AM   #80
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Re: Tax-Reform and the Housing Market.

"That problem is a result of the current tax system not having common sense built into the law.* An easy change could be made to the tax laws either exempting farms from the estate tax or at least lowering the tax burden on farms"

I also have a sentimental feeling towards the agriculturnal industry and have close personal friends who, years ago, struggled paying estate taxes on the family farm when it passed from one generation to the next.* Still, it seems unfair to single out family farms for special treatment vs. other capital intensive family businesses.* I'd have to say that all family businesses get an estate tax break, not just those involving crops or animals.

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