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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-04-2006, 03:54 PM   #21
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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Brewer -- I don't like President Bush either, maybe less than you do.* But there's a lot more to the USA than one president.
Yeah, there's all my fellow Merkins who were too dumb to keep the clown out of office and apparently couldn't care less that the executive branch is on a drunken power grab, trampling the bill of rights in the process. We deserve what we are getting: a dictatorship.



George Bush is Hitler. Now can we stop this off-topic political discussion?
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-04-2006, 03:59 PM   #22
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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Originally Posted by WhodaThunkit
Good grief!!!* But one question -- why did you feel compelled to post, if you would like for this discussion to stop?
I was trying to invoke Whozit's law. You know, the unwritten internett law that says any political discuaaion stops as soon as someone mentions Hitler?
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-04-2006, 04:02 PM   #23
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

Actually I think its when you call someone a nazi.

But what the hell do I know?
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-04-2006, 04:02 PM   #24
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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Actually I think its when you call someone a nazi.

But what the hell do I know?
I did call someone a Nazi. So either way we are covered...
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-04-2006, 07:29 PM   #25
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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Originally Posted by davew894
The guy in Sudan doesn't spend 1/2 his day working for his government.
Uhm, I didn't either. In fact I haven't for nearly four years.

But thank you for your contribution!

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Originally Posted by ()
Actually I think its when you call someone a nazi.
But what the hell do I know?
Eh, it's Godwin's Law, and you're both right...
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-04-2006, 08:08 PM   #26
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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The US was in the bottom 80%, behind many nations that Americans typically think of as oppressed.* We may have freedom to say what we like, freedom to worship, but in the realm of finances, we have very limited freedoms... we are in fact scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Yup, life is so hard - as evidenced by the growing number of books, magaznie articles, and message boards dedicated to retiring early.
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-04-2006, 08:34 PM   #27
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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Nords, I think you probably did as does everyone else who is an employee, except in limited circumstances.
I did do that for a couple decades, but I plan to live a much longer ER than that...
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-04-2006, 08:54 PM   #28
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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Yes, for the priviledged few... but what about our kids?* What about our families?* Perhaps I could take the attitude that so many others seem to have... get mine, sit on the lid and poison the rest.* Screw 'em.* I got mine.
I don't believe that at all. "Our children" are growing up in a time of unprecedented wealth and economic stability. It used to be that the "American Dream" consisted of a "chicken in every pot." But now life isn't complete without two cars, a big screen TV, several computers, a 2,000+ sqf home with central air, international travel, etc. etc. (all of which is affordable today by the "middle class" but once was reserved for the rich if it was available at all). Anyone in the middle class can retire early if they choose to do without some of this stuff. I doubt the same could be realistically said for many other "middle class" generations in history - either in the US or anywhere else in the world for that matter.

It's amazing how few people recognize their great fortune for being born in a developed country at this very moment in history. Sure things could always be better, but they can, and have been, a whole lot worse too. It's important to keep that in perspective.
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-04-2006, 10:14 PM   #29
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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I can't remember the name of the survey that was reported in the Wall Street Journal a while back, but it rated the fiscal burden of governments of all nations around the world (I have a copy of it in a notebook I keep at work... if you are interested let me know and I'll post it).* The US was in the bottom 80%, behind many nations that Americans typically think of as oppressed.* We may have freedom to say what we like, freedom to worship, but in the realm of finances, we have very limited freedoms... we are in fact scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Dave, your message is not going over well at all. Reminds me of what happened to former sweetie-pie MJ when he admitted that for $60, 000 he just might interpret an oral agreement in his favor.

Well, I am with you.(And with MJ)* I don’t care if I have to worship Dilbert, as long as the government would please keep its fingers out of my pockets.

Oh, and BTW, will you post that study*you mentioned?

Ha
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-05-2006, 08:38 AM   #30
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

Select "additional options", then browse/attach.
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-05-2006, 08:58 AM   #31
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

Regarding US versus international tax rates:

The studies along these lines that I have seen convieniently ommit the additional US tax burden of state, property, social security, and medicare taxes. When those are included US tax rates don't seem so low anymore.

Keep in mind who is publishing the study and what their political agenda is.

Still, Since US medical care is paid for outside of the government (for many people) then US tax rates would tend to be much lower than other industrialized countries.

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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-05-2006, 09:32 AM   #32
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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Still, Since US medical care is paid for outside of the government (for many people) then US tax rates would tend to be much lower than other industrialized countries.
I thought that the government paid for Medicare/Medicaid. How are those healthcare programs paid for outside of the government?
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-05-2006, 10:31 AM   #33
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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Originally Posted by davew894
Yes, for the priviledged few... but what about our kids?* What about our families?* Perhaps I could take the attitude that so many others seem to have... get mine, sit on the lid and poison the rest.* Screw 'em.* I got mine.
Dave,

You seem to be painting with a pretty broad brush.
I am not sure what you are trying to say in your post other than to vent about someone else having more than you or you not getting your way. Not intending to start a flame war here, just sharing my thoughts to your overly broad comments. Perhaps if you had a more specific area you would like to discuss it might make it easier for some of us to carry on a meaningful dialogue on the topic. As it is, I am not clear on what specifically you are trying to share with the board.
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-05-2006, 10:59 AM   #34
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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Originally Posted by davew894
Yes, for the priviledged few... but what about our kids?* What about our families?* Perhaps I could take the attitude that so many others seem to have... get mine, sit on the lid and poison the rest.* Screw 'em.* I got mine.
Percentages taken/stolen/given/paid to the g'vmnt are meaningless. What is important is how long you have to work to get the goods and services you need, the quality of life and the type of society you enjoy, and how much you can save at the end of the day. I've lived in several countries, and when it comes to purchasing power in the hand of the average Joe at the end of the month the USA comes out well ahead.
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-05-2006, 11:11 AM   #35
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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Yes, for the priviledged few... but what about our kids?* What about our families?* Perhaps I could take the attitude that so many others seem to have... get mine, sit on the lid and poison the rest.* Screw 'em.* I got mine.
Well this sounds like the sour grapes from someone who doesn't want to make the hard choices to save and prosper. The biggest problem with people who think like that is there are lots of em' and they can vote.

From their perspective, you need to pay your 'fair share'
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-05-2006, 11:21 AM   #36
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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I know many middle class people who could never retire early.
Well if they have to live the 'Holiday Inn' lifestyle you may be right. If they have to have a couple of new cars every year, the expensive home electronics, vacations,blah blah blah then they'll never make it.

If they step back and live well under their means then just like other FIRE's they'll do just fine.

So basically I don't agree with your premise. It's a choice they make.
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-05-2006, 11:30 AM   #37
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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Originally Posted by davew894
Average home cost in S. Florida is $350k (townhouse). Avg. property tax bill for said home is $7k. Average insurance bill is about $3k. Average middle class salary is $44k before taxes. You do the math.
So...you're saying your kids (who this is all about) are just average? I thought this was Lake Woebegone!
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-05-2006, 12:38 PM   #38
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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Average home cost in S. Florida is $350k (townhouse). Avg. property tax bill for said home is $7k. Average insurance bill is about $3k. Average middle class salary is $44k before taxes. You do the math.
Why live in Florida then? What's wrong with the other 49 states? If it is no longer economical to live in your area, relocate to a place where you can get by on a lot less. I know the stats you gave would be much better in other parts of FL, Atlanta, Raleigh, Charlotte, etc.
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-05-2006, 12:44 PM   #39
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

Or choose much cheaper housing. Whos is to say that you need an average house.

Nobody said that ER wouldn't require some sacrifices.

If you have to have that great house and those new cars and all that other stuff - blah blah blah, then get ready to work till you're old. You can't have it both ways.

Get those expenses down and start saving and stop whining.
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006
Old 01-05-2006, 01:26 PM   #40
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Re: Ten Things to Stop Doing in 2006

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Why live in Florida then?* What's wrong with the other 49 states?* If it is no longer economical to live in your area, relocate to a place where you can get by on a lot less.* I know the stats you gave would be much better in other parts of FL, Atlanta, Raleigh, Charlotte, etc.
You apparently don't get it. This board is full of people who will move away from their families and friends, move away from parents, leave nice climates in attractive cities, eat 49 cents pound frozen chicken wings, so they can "retire early" and go pick up pennies in some woebegone rural redoubt. For most people, this is not normal behavior, borne of normal attitudes.

I think Dave has an excellent point, and since there are many bombastic one-sided and mostly wrong points expounded here every day, why does Dave's message bother you so much?

The USA may be pretty good; that does not mean that criticism may not be valid or helpful. Reminds me of the stupid saying from the Viet-Nam era- “America, Love It or Leave It.”

Ha
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