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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-01-2005, 01:43 PM   #21
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

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Originally Posted by ProfHaroldHill
I'd bet that you're a former rug rat yourself . . .

HH
Yes I am and I have spawned a couple myself.

The only thing I am trying to do is make people think outside the box a little about ways to provide some equity to the system. Why should I have to support couples that willingly create more mouths to feed and educate than they can afford? That is a huge issue here. Couples are almost convinced to have as many kids as possible and that puts a huge strain on the education system and later on the welfare system as all these kids try to find jobs and create their own large families.

I am not opposed to paying my taxes; I have no choice in the matter. But I do resent those that can afford to pay more to educate their herd of kids not being forced to pay a higher percentage in school taxes.

An no Justin, I am not saying I would abandon the inner city kids and deprive them of an education; I am saying that those that are not is such die straits should pay proportionally more if they have more kids. I do not see this as a radical idea; it is still using the Robin Hood concept of taxation but would have an additional twist that would add additional taxes for those that have more than X kids and meet certain income levels so as to not unfairly tax those that can least afford it.

The well off families in the middle class neighborhoods with a kids that exceed the minimum number would pay the "head tax" to help fund education. Everyone esle would continue to pay the usual amount. Maybe this would provide some incentive to LBYM and only have the number of kids you are willing to finance. Just a thought.
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-01-2005, 01:51 PM   #22
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

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Originally Posted by wab
Yeah, tell that to all of the fixed-income retirees whose modest houses have appreciated to astronomical levels due to the real estate bubble.* *Ability to pay should be based on income, nothing else.* * If you sell an appreciated property, *then* tax the suckers.* *What's the deal with the crazy home cap gains exclusion?* *Repeal the exclusion, repeal property taxes, and tax property sales to make it revenue neutral.
Most taxes for people over 65 are frozen in Texas.. so they do not have to worry about gains..
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-01-2005, 01:58 PM   #23
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

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Originally Posted by SteveR
I am not opposed to paying my taxes; I have no choice in the matter. But I do resent those that can afford to pay more to educate their herd of kids not being forced to pay a higher percentage in school taxes.
Hey, all those kids are going to grow up and pay taxes to support you. I think a growing population will be better for our country's economic vitality. Especially encouraging middle class families to have more kids. They're more likely to go to college and earn more (read: pay more taxes). Make the pie bigger, so the slice the taxman takes is smaller. Besides, those with more kids have bigger houses with more bedrooms, and pay more property tax as a result. Maybe your house is oversized? Or rather, you're able to afford an oversized house.

In summary, taxes suck but somebody has to pay them.
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-01-2005, 02:16 PM   #24
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

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Originally Posted by justin
Hey, all those kids are going to grow up and pay taxes to support you.* I think a growing population will be better for our country's economic vitality.* Especially encouraging middle class families to have more kids.* They're more likely to go to college and earn more (read: pay more taxes).* Make the pie bigger, so the slice the taxman takes is smaller.* Besides, those with more kids have bigger houses with more bedrooms, and pay more property tax as a result.* Maybe your house is oversized?* Or rather, you're able to afford an oversized house.*

In summary, taxes suck but somebody has to pay them.* *
You are assuming that all these kids will have jobs and contribute to the tax base instead of depending on it for their daily living. I would argue that more is not better. More kids in a family would make it harder for them to go to college, not easier, due to limited finances. More kids just put more strain on the system. Utah is ranked near the bottom on $$ spent per child but it is not because the tax rate is low, it is because there are tons of kids here. Utah has the highest birth rate of any state in the union.

How big are the class sizes in your public schools? Here they frequently reach and exceed 35 in many schools. Ever try to teach that many kids at one time? It is a zoo. The learning process requires more attention to individuals and large class sizes lowers the overall quality of education for all of them.

I think we may agree to disagree on this subject. That is what makes America great.
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-01-2005, 02:27 PM   #25
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

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Originally Posted by SteveR
I think we may agree to disagree on this subject. That is what makes America great.
I think you have a great idea about allocating the education tax burden based on number of school age kids. However, putting a use tax on government services could completely eliminate the property tax burden (in theory). Charge user fees for parks, fire and police services, mental health care, prisons, etc. However, how do indigents pay for these services? The burden of payment for these services will fall back on the taxpayers. Then you get hit with a double whammy - middle income folks start paying the user fees for themselves and, through their taxes, for the lower income indigent people. A family might have 1 kid, and end up paying $15000/yr for their kid's school head tax (and the unpaid portion of lower income kids' head taxes). An untenable situation for most middle income folks.

My feelings on school head tax: good in theory, but the practical effects would be unacceptable. But we can agree to disagree. And I'll continue to be thankful I live in a rational taxing jurisdiction with respect to property taxes.
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-01-2005, 02:40 PM   #26
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

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Originally Posted by justin
* However, how do indigents pay for these services?*
Let them eat cake!

OK, just kidding on that one.

I have lived in areas where you did have to pay for some services like:
Fire protection was a user fee paid system to a volunteer fire department.
Sewer service is not taxed in most places
Garbage collection is a paid service
State parks have user fees as do National parks yet both get money from taxes.

With that I will return this thread back to the original one on Tejas property taxes....paid my fair share of them too at one time.
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-01-2005, 08:08 PM   #27
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

Just when you think they've figured out how to tax just about everything...

'View tax' triggers revolt in rural N.H.

ORFORD, N.H. (AP) The one-room cabin David Bischoff built in a cow pasture three years ago has no electricity, no running water, no phone service and no driveway. What it does have is a wide-open view of nearby hills and distant mountains which makes it seven times more valuable than if it had no view, according to the latest townwide property assessment. He expects his property taxes to shoot up accordingly.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...view-tax_x.htm
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-01-2005, 09:23 PM   #28
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

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Originally Posted by REWahoo!
Just when you think they've figured out how to tax just about everything...

'View tax' triggers revolt in rural N.H.

ORFORD, N.H. (AP) The one-room cabin David Bischoff built in a cow pasture three years ago has no electricity, no running water, no phone service and no driveway. What it does have is a wide-open view of nearby hills and distant mountains which makes it seven times more valuable than if it had no view, according to the latest townwide property assessment. He expects his property taxes to shoot up accordingly.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...view-tax_x.htm
Now only the view, he's got a high dollar security system.
[/img]
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-01-2005, 11:35 PM   #29
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

We paid real estate taxes in TX for two years. Never again. Outrageous.

Ever notice lists of high appreciation areas for real estate? TX is not often on them, especially of late.

In Dallas you get the "best" of both worlds: little appreciation, high property taxes (like $600/month for a $300K home), and ... little liquidity. Can be tough to sell a TX home last few years.

I heard the "but we have no income tax" argument too. Doesn't wash. Besides, as noted above, if you're facing a challenging time, the taxes just keep rolling on.

Now, TN is interesting. Little to no income tax, low property taxes, and sales taxes comparable to TX. Plus, similar home prices (a bit higher), temperate climate. Nashville is booming like you can't believe. My theory is that folks are selling in high cost, expensive real estate areas, reinvesting in Nashville, and pocketing the difference for retirement or consumption.
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-02-2005, 12:04 AM   #30
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

I would hate to see what they would charge me for this view!
(View from the deck of my cabin.)

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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-02-2005, 01:12 PM   #31
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

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Originally Posted by Charles
Now, TN is interesting. Little to no income tax, low property taxes, and sales taxes comparable to TX. Plus, similar home prices (a bit higher), temperate climate.
But TN taxes dividends and interest. That's not very FIRE friendly.
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-02-2005, 01:38 PM   #32
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

Charles:

Well Tx may have high property taxes but they have NO income tax. They have to get it out of you one way or the other. It all kind-of balances out

- Death and taxes
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-02-2005, 02:09 PM   #33
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

That's why you live in Vancouver WA (no property tax) and drive across the bridge to Portland, OR to do all your shopping (no sales tax)! The problem with where I live (California) is I have property tax, melloroos, sales tax....these three alone add up to about $7,500 a year, and I haven't paid the Feds, social security, or state income tax! And people think I'm lucky because the average cost for a house now is double what I paid (double property tax) and I don't have a home owners association, which almost every new development seems to have now.
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-02-2005, 02:22 PM   #34
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

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The problem with where I live (California) is I have property tax, melloroos, sales tax....these three alone add up to about $7,500 a year, and I haven't paid the Feds, social security, or state income tax!
Is that why they call it the "left" coast?
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-02-2005, 02:34 PM   #35
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

Except we elect illiterate Repubs to run the state.

One way to beat the system, so to speak, is to stay in your current home. Prop 13 keeps your property tax from rising (much) and the melloroos in my community end in ~15 years. I'm in a 20 year mortgage, so in 19 years when all that's done, I'll go from ~$32,000 a year housing cost to about ~$3,000 plus a small property tax adjustment. Now if I go an "upgrade" to a newer, bigger home, not only will I add a couple hundred thousand to be paid off, but my property tax will zoom up to current market value. See the games we play when tax code is whacky?
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-02-2005, 02:47 PM   #36
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

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Except we elect illiterate Repubs to run the state.
I've always wanted a movie star for my governor. I guess that is what happens when Hollywood is in your state. All the zany actors think they know what is best for everyone else. Too bad Aahnold can't bench press away all of California's fiscal concerns.

melloroos - interesting concept local to California. I figured it had something to do with Australia till I googled it. You say your melloroos will end in 15 years - aren't there pretty good odds of having another melloroos in the next 15 years? We have bond referendums all the time here in NC, but the debt service comes out of our usual property taxes.
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-02-2005, 02:51 PM   #37
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

Darn well hope not! The melloroos covers such a small area (about 5000 homes), it is used to pay off the debt incurred for the community areas/open spaces. Since they are opent to the public, the developer and the city worked out some deal on that end. Can't do much if the city comes up with a tax, but the melloroos themselves should fade away.
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-02-2005, 02:59 PM   #38
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

From my admittedly brief research on google, it looked like municipal capital improvements (like building a new school) could be funded with melloroos $$. The gov't will get your money one way or another, whatever it is called!
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-02-2005, 04:07 PM   #39
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

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Originally Posted by Laurence
Except we elect illiterate Repubs to run the state.
Illiterate or unintelligible? Maybe he's just emulating the inarticulate President.

Maybe they'll both be nyoocyoolar engineers after they get voted out retire...
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Re: Texas Property Taxes
Old 11-03-2005, 03:06 PM   #40
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Re: Texas Property Taxes

DH and I just relocated from the Bay Area to Austin and I think we'll be doing okay here. A new 2000 sq ft condo in my old area (Dublin/Pleasanton) was about $650k. Property Taxes at 1.25% would be $8125.

Even in pricey Austin, a 2500 sq ft new house in a great neighborhood will run you only $300,000. Taxes at 2.7% will cost you $8100.

Sales tax is similar in both cities. Austin has no state income tax. California is limited to 2% increases on property taxes instead of 10%. Some people think the Bay Area has better weather (not me, I hate cold fog). Some people would rather be in the 2500 sq ft house than the 2000 sq ft condo. The Bay Area's real estate market has about topped, Austin's may or may not be slightly undervalued. Homeowner's insurance seems to be a little more in Texas. My car insurance is the same. Basic staples at the grocery store are less and gas is about $.40 less a gallon in Austin.

We figure to stay here until my husband quits working, then we'll reevaluate what state to go to next. That's probably 10 years in the future and who knows what the world will look like then.
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