Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-26-2016, 10:44 AM   #141
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 121
Couple of earlier posts in this thread raised the question of what happens to people who have chosen this path.

I have a way of thinking about that, which I will try to put into words. People have a capacity of earning in their life, as well as the consumption. Think of a graph over time and the area under the curve. If you consume more during some times, you need to reduce at others. If your capacity increases/decreases, that impacts that total area you can consume.

For some folks, they've consumed their life time capacity while they still have time left meaning they need to consume zero from there on out, and the result isn't going to be pretty.
__________________

__________________
oldphd is offline  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-26-2016, 10:49 AM   #142
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton View Post
Debatable!

What kind of fantasy logic is that? People (and organizations and nations) aspire to lots of things, but it doesn't make it so.
+1

Yep, this defines all of our middle class friends that are in serious financial trouble...

Lots of "I deserve" and "I want", but unwilling to pay the price up front until the desires are affordable without massive debt.
__________________

__________________
Living the dream...
FreeBear is offline  
Old 04-26-2016, 10:59 AM   #143
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Didn't read the whole thread, so apologies if this has been discussed.

Our entire economic system relies on spending to the max, debt with minimum monthly payments, buying crap like pet rocks, social pressure to drive the Jag, or to spend $50k on daughters wedding.

Now get out there and SPEND!
__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline  
Old 04-26-2016, 11:09 AM   #144
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFWR View Post
Now get out there and SPEND!
"You've heard of negative interest rates? If I'm elected president, I'll set up a negative sales tax! That's right, on everything you purchase the government will tax you -10%, which means you'll get 10% cash back from Uncle Sam. The more you spend the more you get! Is this a great country or what!"
__________________
GrayHare is online now  
Old 04-26-2016, 11:10 AM   #145
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ExFlyBoy5's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danmar View Post
Very interesting thread with some very thoughtful posts. I feel a little conflicted when I read the original article and the Bloomberg response. Clearly things are not going well for the middle class. Certainly there are ways to manage this but most people don't. The classic "American Dream" is a lifestyle that is increasingly out of reach for many. Income inequality is getting worse and the ideal of upward financial mobility is not present as much as we would like. This is not a good thing and will need to be addressed. [mod edit]

It's better not to be smug or self righteous (seems to be a fair bit of this on this site) but it's hard not to be if you have successfully saved for a well funded retirement as many here have done or are doing and read these stories.

So in the end I am just thankful how lucky, smart, goal oriented, focused, I am and call it a day. Sorry everyone can't be these things but if they were it would be a different and tougher world for us lucky smart guys. I try to help friends and family that are less fortunate but there is only so much you can do.
I appreciate your thoughts but couldn't disagree more. The author put himself in the situation. This wasn't "bad luck" or "income inequality"...it was being an idiot. As an author, I assume he writes from home...so why continue to live in the HAMPTONS?!? Sell your house and move to Kentucky. Second, I would love to know how many Apple products adorn his home. I would like to know what he sets his thermostat in the winter. I would like to know which package he has selected from the cable provider. He felt the need to send his kids to two of the MOST EXPENSIVE schools in the country and spent his PARENT'S $$$ doing it?!? Wow...what a piece of work. Luck has NOTHING to do with this man's decision. I wound up dropping out of HS (long, drawn out story) and joined the military as an enlisted man. And yet, somehow, I retired much earlier than most folks. Was it luck? Hell no...it was a LOT of damn hard work and to say "luck" had anything to do with it is offensive to me.

The American Dream is nothing more than a marketing scheme put out there to encourage Americans to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND!!! If Americans stopped spending EVERY DAMN DIME they make on everything under the sun, then perhaps they would have $400 for "an emergency."

Oh yeah...a few tidbits about the author (from public records):

2012 Judgment for AMEX Balance: $36,442
2012 Judgment for CITI NA Balance: $14,066
2012 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $2,812
2010 Lien US IRS Balance: $15,431
2010 Lien US IRS Balance: $60,968
2010 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $10,170
2008 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $12,790
2006 Judgment Penguin Group Balance: $189,919
2005 Lien US IRS Balance: $51,110

OK...I am tired of transcribing this information, but it keeps going and it goes back to 1993. Does anyone else here see a trend?!? This is NOT a case of "keeping up with the Joneses", this is nothing more than FINANCIAL IDIOCY. And all the while, carrying a $650,000 mortgage. Oh...one last thing. The property in East Hampton with the $650K mortgage is showing a Zillow value of $2.65 MILLION DOLLARS. What am I missing here?!
__________________
Founder and Head Lounger @ The Life of Leisure Institute
Retired in 2014 at the Ripe Age of 40.
ExFlyBoy5 is offline  
Old 04-26-2016, 11:10 AM   #146
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
RobbieB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central CA
Posts: 2,471
I have heard the call and am doing my best!

Seriously. I'm spending more now than I did when I was working. I'm also making more dough now than when I was working. You know because I'm not maxing out the 401K anymore and I paid off the house plus the wonder of qualified dividends and social security income.

Not working means more time to have fun and "blow dough". Really. I scrimped and saved and invested to build up this nice stash and now it's time to "help the American economy" by adding cash -
__________________
Retired at 59 in 2014. Should have done it sooner but I worried too much.
RobbieB is online now  
Old 04-26-2016, 11:42 AM   #147
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Milton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayinpenn View Post
I do not mean to be harsh but being financially irresponsible with a load of excuses makes my blood boil.
All I really needed to read in the article was the following: "After the job loss, the co‑op board’s rejections, the tax penalties, there was one more wallop: A publisher with whom I had signed a book contract, and from whom I had received an advance, sued me to have the advance returned after I missed a deadline. (Book deadlines are commonly missed and routinely extended.)"

Two thoughts:

1. While I don't know the specifics of that contractual situation, I do know a bit about publishing. I would be willing to bet that - despite the author's attempt to minimize the problem - that deadline was waaaaaaay overdue. Like other business people, publishers have better things to do than waste time, energy and money on lawsuits, and typically do so only as a last resort.

2. Nice approach to model for his daughters: I'm 'special' so my responsibilities and commitments don't matter ... and when I inevitably fail to meet my obligations, it's the other guy's problem and he's a jerk if he tries to enforce the letter of the law.
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
Milton is offline  
The Atlantic Article on Lack of Savings
Old 04-26-2016, 12:08 PM   #148
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,048
The Atlantic Article on Lack of Savings

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBoy5 View Post
a few tidbits about the author (from public records):
[/COLOR][/U][/B]
2012 Judgment for AMEX Balance: $36,442
2012 Judgment for CITI NA Balance: $14,066
2012 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $2,812
2010 Lien US IRS Balance: $15,431
2010 Lien US IRS Balance: $60,968
2010 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $10,170
2008 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $12,790
2006 Judgment Penguin Group Balance: $189,919
2005 Lien US IRS Balance: $51,110
Thanks Flyboy I had no idea...
I have been blessed I've always been able to pay my bills; not saving for retirement is one thing but getting into Credit Card Hoc and dancing with IRS... This author is clearly a spend thrift and a blow hard ...

when you don't pay Your taxes you steal from all of us.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
rayinpenn is offline  
Old 04-26-2016, 12:18 PM   #149
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,127
@Flyboy. I don't think we really disagree to the extent you think. I have little sympathy with the author. My point is really, I don't care very much. There will always be winners and losers in life. My goal in life is always to be one of the winners. Problem is our society seems to be encouraging a loser's stategy. I guess the more losers there are the easier if is to be a winner? The only problem I see is that the losers might overrun the the rest of us.
__________________
Danmar is offline  
Old 04-26-2016, 12:19 PM   #150
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBoy5 View Post
OK...I am tired of transcribing this information, but it keeps going and it goes back to 1993. Does anyone else here see a trend?!? This is NOT a case of "keeping up with the Joneses", this is nothing more than FINANCIAL IDIOCY. And all the while, carrying a $650,000 mortgage. Oh...one last thing. The property in East Hampton with the $650K mortgage is showing a Zillow value of $2.65 MILLION DOLLARS. What am I missing here?!
He has $2M equity in his house? Could there be others loans on the house than the mortgage you are seeing?
__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
daylatedollarshort is offline  
Old 04-26-2016, 12:27 PM   #151
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Keim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBoy5 View Post
one last thing. The property in East Hampton with the $650K mortgage is showing a Zillow value of $2.65 MILLION DOLLARS. What am I missing here?!
Seems the author has an easy out of his financial pickle...
__________________
You can't enlighten the unconscious.
But you can hit'em upside the head a few times to make sure they are really out...
Keim is offline  
Old 04-26-2016, 01:36 PM   #152
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ExFlyBoy5's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danmar View Post
@Flyboy. I don't think we really disagree to the extent you think. I have little sympathy with the author. My point is really, I don't care very much. There will always be winners and losers in life. My goal in life is always to be one of the winners. Problem is our society seems to be encouraging a loser's stategy. I guess the more losers there are the easier if is to be a winner? The only problem I see is that the losers might overrun the the rest of us.
Gotcha! Sometimes it's hard to read with the lack of facial expressions and other non-verbal clues to "even out" what's being said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort View Post
He has $2M equity in his house? Could there be others loans on the house than the mortgage you are seeing?
Couldn't really tell you without digging deeper. I have access to a database that compiles public data and often mortgage releases will not be reflected. It is possible (I would guess probable) that he has multiple mortgages on the property. Also, Zillow is just an estimate and they also indicate that R/E in that area is "COLD" (I didn't know that R/E was COLD, anywhere right now!) so I would look at those figures with a wary eye. As for the all the judgments and liens...well, that tells a much more complete story (IMHO).

I happened to email this information to the writer of the article on Slate (Helaine Olen) and she seems very interested in gathering more information on this and perhaps addressing this in another article. She was quite surprised that Atlantic would publish the article if they knew of his "true financial picture."

I would pontificate that it's because of clickthroughs. I think that editors will look the other way and ignore facts if they can get away with it. Just another example of how journalism is just very journalistic anymore.
__________________
Founder and Head Lounger @ The Life of Leisure Institute
Retired in 2014 at the Ripe Age of 40.
ExFlyBoy5 is offline  
Old 04-26-2016, 01:47 PM   #153
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Fedup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 2,930
I finally was able to read this article on another forum. The grandparents paid for his kid's college tuition. I agree he is in a whiny and manipulative.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
When I post IIRC, that means going by memory. Google is your friend for facts. Stop being a lazy bum, I can't do all the googling for you. I'm lazy too. LOL
Fedup is offline  
Old 04-26-2016, 01:52 PM   #154
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBoy5 View Post

Oh yeah...a few tidbits about the author (from public records):

2012 Judgment for AMEX Balance: $36,442
2012 Judgment for CITI NA Balance: $14,066
2012 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $2,812
2010 Lien US IRS Balance: $15,431
2010 Lien US IRS Balance: $60,968
2010 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $10,170
2008 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $12,790
2006 Judgment Penguin Group Balance: $189,919
2005 Lien US IRS Balance: $51,110

OK...I am tired of transcribing this information, but it keeps going and it goes back to 1993.
Very nice! How do you find this kind of information?

Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is offline  
Old 04-26-2016, 02:09 PM   #155
Full time employment: Posting here.
dixonge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ajijic
Posts: 846
My thoughts:

1 - While I am unable to sympathize with the author's plight, many of the statistics he shared really do apply to a lot of the middle class. Unlike most of them, the author actually had a choice. He mostly chose badly.

2 - FlyBoy5 isn't the only one who isn't buying this guy's sob story. This article sees him as just another in a long line of sad white literary guy tales...

Neal Gabler’s Atlantic essay is part of an old, aggravating genre: The sad, broke, literary male.

3 - Gabler tried to make it sound like he wasn't rich because they live in the Hamptons year-round, unlike the rich people who just rent there for the summer. A nice try, unfortunately that's exactly what the Gablers did! They rented summer houses there for years and then bought the house they were renting for $600-700,000 or so. The tax rolls show a current assessed value of almost $1.5M

http://ehamptonny.gov/DocumentsPDF/A...lAssmtRoll.pdf

Neal Gabler: The Triumph Of Entertainment | The East Hampton Star

OK, I spent *way* more time on that than is justified...
__________________
dixonge is online now  
Old 04-26-2016, 02:12 PM   #156
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ExFlyBoy5's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by haha View Post
Very nice! How do you find this kind of information?

Ha
I have access to a database that compiles public record information. You'd be amazed at what is publicly available. It's really quite scary.

Oh yes, and the Penguin Group judgment...I assume that's the advance he had to pay back. I would guess that since Penguin Group is a publisher. I am not sure what the advance was, but it seems like it was a decent amount (judgment most likely had court/atty/interest added in, so no real way to know what the actual advance was without pulling records from the judgment/court).
__________________
Founder and Head Lounger @ The Life of Leisure Institute
Retired in 2014 at the Ripe Age of 40.
ExFlyBoy5 is offline  
Old 04-26-2016, 02:28 PM   #157
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBoy5 View Post
I happened to email this information to the writer of the article on Slate (Helaine Olen) and she seems very interested in gathering more information on this and perhaps addressing this in another article. She was quite surprised that Atlantic would publish the article if they knew of his "true financial picture."

I would pontificate that it's because of clickthroughs. I think that editors will look the other way and ignore facts if they can get away with it. Just another example of how journalism is just very journalistic anymore.
Good for you. I don't think living in a $2.65M house and statements like "We have learned to live a no-frills existence" are compatible. Not to mention the term "middle class" being used in the article title. The median home price in the U.S. is not much over $200K.
__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
daylatedollarshort is offline  
Old 04-26-2016, 03:10 PM   #158
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,697
So after dozens of people contributing to 157 posts (158 counting this one) we find that this guy is just a joker?

Well, I'll say one thing: he sucked us in! So he must be a pretty good writer.
__________________
Living well is the best revenge!
Retired @ 52 in 2005
marko is offline  
Old 04-26-2016, 03:22 PM   #159
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelover View Post
Do you seriously think that teachers are in the same intelligence range as garbage collectors and custodians? And that farmers are stupid? You must have never know people in either profession.
Most farmers I have known are not stupid; and many know how to keep their income subject to taxation low through cash transactionsl
__________________
sanfanciscotreat is offline  
The Atlantic Article on Lack of Savings
Old 04-26-2016, 03:24 PM   #160
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,369
The Atlantic Article on Lack of Savings

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayinpenn View Post
Thanks Flyboy I had no idea...
I have been blessed I've always been able to pay my bills; not saving for retirement is one thing but getting into Credit Card Hoc and dancing with IRS... This author is clearly a spend thrift and a blow hard ...

when you don't pay Your taxes you steal from all of us.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum


The writer seems like a reasonably intelligent man. So therefore I blame his problem on the government. If they had not rescinded our debtors prison laws, I bet he would have been a bit more restrained in his spending. But I may be the oddball, I have always worried more about pain than pleasure, so that is why paddlings were effective on me as a child to conform to societal standards as set by my parents.
__________________

__________________
Mulligan is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Atlantic Article on retiring deserat Other topics 1 08-03-2009 11:11 PM
Atlantic City JohnDoe Other topics 6 05-13-2008 06:46 AM
mid atlantic states question: route 17 lazygood4nothinbum Travel Information 8 09-04-2007 03:16 PM
South Atlantic states califdreamer Life after FIRE 66 11-02-2006 10:33 AM
Atlantic City closed! laurence Other topics 3 07-05-2006 03:42 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:32 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.