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Old 04-26-2016, 03:26 PM   #161
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And also, I believe in delayed gratification; thankfully, the delay is now over
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Old 04-26-2016, 03:34 PM   #162
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Thanks to FlyBoy and the folks that dug a bit deeper on this guy. I'm adding him right in with Barbara Ehnright and Morgan Spurlock as the Middle Class pretender authors. What ever happened to writers like Studs Terkel?

So he borrows money from his parents and his children and thinks he has a financial problem? I'd look more at an overall moral problem.

Unfortunately, this article popped up in my Facebook feed at least 10 times from friends liking it. I'll bet Gabler is spending more on his Property and School taxes as half of the people clicking like make in a year.
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Old 04-26-2016, 03:44 PM   #163
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So he borrows money from his parents and his children and thinks he has a financial problem? I'd look more at an overall moral problem.
From the list of bad debts coupled with extravagant expenses, I would agree it appears to be more of a moral issue than a budgeting issue. I have friends with budgeting issues who may max out their credit cards over discretionary expenses, but they aren't shirking their obligations as taxpayers, stiffing employers or draining their parents' life savings.
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Old 04-26-2016, 03:53 PM   #164
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"In a 2010 report titled “Middle Class in America,” the U.S. Commerce Department defined that class less by its position on the economic scale than by its aspirations: homeownership, a car for each adult, health security, a college education for each child, retirement security, and a family vacation each year. By that standard, my wife and I do not live anywhere near a middle-class life, even though I earn what would generally be considered a middle-class income or better. A 2014 analysis by USA Today concluded that the American dream, defined by factors that generally corresponded to the Commerce Department’s middle-class benchmarks, would require an income of just more than $130,000 a year for an average family of four. Median family income in 2014 was roughly half that."

In short, much of the "middle class" aspires to a life that is twice as expensive as they can afford without going into massive debt.
I'd say that the USA Today article says more about the biases of a writer trying to get a good headline than it says about average Americans.
Price tag for the American dream: $130K a year

Of course, the "dream" for anyone is likely to be more than they can afford today, that's why we call it a "dream". But, each writer gets to define his own dream.

One problem with the article is that the "median family" is not a "family of four". In 2014, the married couples with children at home had a median income of $85,000. Income Inequality: Married Couples With Kids Make Average of $107,054

The referenced Commerce Dept paper said that a median family of four with a $80,600 income (2008) could cover all those expenses, if they lived in a house valued at $231,000. "Middle Class in America" Task Force Report (PDF) | Department of Commerce

$130,000 vs. $80,600 is pretty big, even allowing for 6 years of inflation.

The big differences are taxes, retirement savings, and "other". The last category includes $4,000 of education expenses for the kids (not including college), and generally numbers that are more than median income couples really spend.

But, the Commerce paper does some low on certain expenses, too.
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Old 04-26-2016, 05:44 PM   #165
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Oh yeah...a few tidbits about the author (from public records):

2012 Judgment for AMEX Balance: $36,442
2012 Judgment for CITI NA Balance: $14,066
2012 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $2,812
2010 Lien US IRS Balance: $15,431
2010 Lien US IRS Balance: $60,968
2010 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $10,170
2008 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $12,790
2006 Judgment Penguin Group Balance: $189,919
2005 Lien US IRS Balance: $51,110

OK...I am tired of transcribing this information, but it keeps going and it goes back to 1993.
I always wondered if people like this actually beat the system in their own way. I mean this guy got hundreds of thousands of dollars more in goods and services then he ever bothered to pay for, and in the end he can just declare bankruptcy and move on to do it again. His retirement will be a series of social programs and SS, and probably some under the table money from his children. In other words, this guy will have lived well beyond his means, and despite some ups and downs, vary well may have lived a better life (personally and materialistically) than those of us who sacrificed and paid our own way. He may actually have 'beat' us!
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Old 04-26-2016, 05:51 PM   #166
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[T]his guy will have lived well beyond his means, and despite some ups and downs, vary well may have lived a better life (personally and materialistically) than those of us who sacrificed and paid our own way.
Not morally, though.

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I happened to email this information to the writer of the article on Slate (Helaine Olen) and she seems very interested in gathering more information on this and perhaps addressing this in another article. She was quite surprised that Atlantic would publish the article if they knew of his "true financial picture."
Good work.
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Old 04-26-2016, 06:49 PM   #167
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I have access to a database that compiles public record information. You'd be amazed at what is publicly available. It's really quite scary.
.

Yes, I am amazed......... But..........

Apparently you desire to keep your source of this info confidential. You say it's publicly available but won't mention where......

Not that I have any doubt, I don't in the least, but could you at least pass along a few hints where the publicly available info came from? One of those Internet services that advertises on late night TV? Something you have access to because of your former gov't employment? Something like the old Dunn and Bradstreet reports?

Just curious as to the source of my amazement. Thanks.
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Old 04-26-2016, 07:01 PM   #168
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I have no problem with the article, he's not lying, he really is broke.

Also fairly well celebrated;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Gabler

He seems a pretty smart guy, just not financially eh? Yeah lived beyond his means no doubt. But since the government filed the liens, we will get our dough eventually I'm sure.
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Old 04-26-2016, 08:04 PM   #169
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I have no problem with the article, he's not lying, he really is broke.

Also fairly well celebrated;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Gabler

He seems a pretty smart guy, just not financially eh? Yeah lived beyond his means no doubt. But since the government filed the liens, we will get our dough eventually I'm sure.

Step 1: Create Wikipedia account
Step 2: Post public lien information to Gabler's Wikipedia page, citing source.
Step 3: Win.
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Old 04-26-2016, 08:22 PM   #170
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I have no idea what you mean.

The info on wiki is bogus?
He didn't write the 5 books he said he did?
Win what?
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Old 04-26-2016, 08:41 PM   #171
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I have no idea what you mean.

The info on wiki is bogus?
He didn't write the 5 books he said he did?
Win what?
I'm guessing winning is making him look bad by posting his info on Wikipedia.
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Old 04-26-2016, 08:51 PM   #172
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The guy is a writer and he writes. He said he's broke and it appears that he is. He admits that he looks bad and feels bad.

Who knows the details of the book deal that went bad. Who cares?

Guys like that in the "entertainment industry" burn bright, flash bang and burn out fast all the time. Hey just one more "best seller" or "block buster" and I'm in the green again eh?

Those guys really do live in a different world.


This is a guy that should have hired a financial advisor for one percent and just sent him all the dough -
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:02 PM   #173
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Yes, I am amazed......... But..........

Apparently you desire to keep your source of this info confidential. You say it's publicly available but won't mention where......

Not that I have any doubt, I don't in the least, but could you at least pass along a few hints where the publicly available info came from? One of those Internet services that advertises on late night TV? Something you have access to because of your former gov't employment? Something like the old Dunn and Bradstreet reports?

Just curious as to the source of my amazement. Thanks.
I will not confirm that the source is this one I used, but it's probably something close. I'm sure you could find it all at the Suffolk County Clerks office though.

Just want to make sure that people know that the information came from a reputable source.

http://www.lexisnexis.com/en-us/prod...c-records.page



Sent via mobile device. Please excuse any grammatical errors.
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:11 PM   #174
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Gabler was interviewed last Sunday on National Public Radio's Weekend Edition about his Atlantic article. Here's a link to it. You can click on a link on the upper left corner to listen to the audio of the 5 minute interview, or you can read a transcript of much of the interview lower down on the page. During the last 45 seconds of the radio interview, he makes the following assertion which was not part of his article:

"If you look at the English or the French or the Germans, they don't believe that they're totally responsible for not having achieved financial success. Americans do. And we've got to stop people telling us that it's all in our hands as to whether we're going to be successful, because frankly it is not."

Could You Come Up With $400 If Disaster Struck? Half Of Americans Couldn't : NPR

Also, Gabler had a new book published today, titled Barbra Streisand: Redefining Beauty, Femininity, and Power.
http://www.amazon.com/Barbra-Streisa...ds=neal+gabler
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:14 PM   #175
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Good for him, he needs the dough -
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The Atlantic Article on Lack of Savings
Old 04-26-2016, 09:14 PM   #176
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The Atlantic Article on Lack of Savings

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Blech.... I read that article above then linked to the same broke author's article about how budgeting doesn't work. She's a regular walking case of financial journalist malpractice.
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:15 PM   #177
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I'm guessing winning is making him look bad by posting his info on Wikipedia.
Pretty much this.

While he talked about financial trouble, I think he purposefully misled the audience by hiding the extent to which these troubles were entirely self-inflicted (i.e. opting to avoid tax payments in order to make suspect investments on book deals; home value of house in the Hamptons; etc.) The guy wrote a "woe is me because of the system" story, when the reality is it should've been a "woe is me because I'm a financial disaster".
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:19 PM   #178
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The Atlantic Article on Lack of Savings

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I appreciate your thoughts but couldn't disagree more. The author put himself in the situation. This wasn't "bad luck" or "income inequality"...it was being an idiot. As an author, I assume he writes from home...so why continue to live in the HAMPTONS?!? Sell your house and move to Kentucky. Second, I would love to know how many Apple products adorn his home. I would like to know what he sets his thermostat in the winter. I would like to know which package he has selected from the cable provider. He felt the need to send his kids to two of the MOST EXPENSIVE schools in the country and spent his PARENT'S $$$ doing it?!? Wow...what a piece of work. Luck has NOTHING to do with this man's decision. I wound up dropping out of HS (long, drawn out story) and joined the military as an enlisted man. And yet, somehow, I retired much earlier than most folks. Was it luck? Hell no...it was a LOT of damn hard work and to say "luck" had anything to do with it is offensive to me.

The American Dream is nothing more than a marketing scheme put out there to encourage Americans to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND!!! If Americans stopped spending EVERY DAMN DIME they make on everything under the sun, then perhaps they would have $400 for "an emergency."

Oh yeah...a few tidbits about the author (from public records):

2012 Judgment for AMEX Balance: $36,442
2012 Judgment for CITI NA Balance: $14,066
2012 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $2,812
2010 Lien US IRS Balance: $15,431
2010 Lien US IRS Balance: $60,968
2010 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $10,170
2008 Lien NY Taxes Balance: $12,790
2006 Judgment Penguin Group Balance: $189,919
2005 Lien US IRS Balance: $51,110

OK...I am tired of transcribing this information, but it keeps going and it goes back to 1993. Does anyone else here see a trend?!? This is NOT a case of "keeping up with the Joneses", this is nothing more than FINANCIAL IDIOCY. And all the while, carrying a $650,000 mortgage. Oh...one last thing. The property in East Hampton with the $650K mortgage is showing a Zillow value of $2.65 MILLION DOLLARS. What am I missing here?!

Idiot is right. Too bad we can't take this entire thread and send it to Atlantic and have them publish it in response to this buffoons story ....

Sensationalism and journalism go hand in hand. It's what sells.
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:24 PM   #179
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That's precisely what makes it so juicy. All that dough, the house in the Hamptons, all those liens and judgements, the new book, the fame and fortune...

It could be on the front cover on the tabloids at the grocery store checkout sometime soon. If Kim Kardashian hasn't done something more outrageous. Who knows?
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:43 PM   #180
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Blech.... I read that article above then linked to the same broke author's article about how budgeting doesn't work. She's a regular walking case of financial journalist malpractice.
Personally, I didn't get that impression from her article, only that budgeting wasn't a universal fix for all of the economic hardships households might face.

Entire article here:
Sean Cooper paid his mortgage in 3 years by saving. Ignore his story.

I liked this comment in response to the guy who was held as a good example of thrift who worked 100 hours a week to pay off his mortgage:

"You know they passed labour laws to not have this be the example right?”
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