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Old 08-30-2016, 08:44 AM   #41
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I think Victoria, BC is one of the most beautiful places in the world
Agree. Would add Canmore Alberta, where I live, as well.
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Old 08-30-2016, 09:55 AM   #42
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Some of them are members of this forum, too!
+1
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Old 08-30-2016, 11:13 AM   #43
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What I would call unfair is two neighbors with substantially the same properties that have the same fair value paying drastically different property taxes simply because one is a new owner and the other has lived there for a long time. Wacky.
I think property taxes are unfair.
What it means is when you buy a house, you never 'really' own it, because if you don't pay the property tax it is taken away, but if you buy a golf club you get to keep it for decades because there is no golf club tax.
So property taxes effectively remove the concept of owning your own home or land property.

The gov't should have tax based on income, not the value of something you paid for already.

Property tax is an inefficient way to collect $$ because renters don't pay it, and the theory is the landlord pays it and collects it from the renters, but lots of issues muddle this up like rent controls.
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Old 08-30-2016, 11:26 AM   #44
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My brother had the good fortune of buying the biggest house he and his wife could afford in 2009 (maybe 2010) in a toronto neighborhood that would see the highest appreciation over the next few years (think +100%). However, I think all of toronto has seen strong appreciation so I'm not sure if the "extra" appreciation explains all of the tax increase (i.e. a doubling) or if there are other factors involved. AFAIK property tax works as pb4uski described in toronto.

Canadian real estate is in an interesting place right now due to very high prices, low affordability and anti foreign sentiment. Vancouver just initiated a 15% tax on foreign home buyers in order to cool their housing market:
Vancouver real estate vulnerable after tax on foreign buyers: Fitch - The Globe and Mail

Not sure if this affects non-resident citizens, but I do believe it will affect resident non citizens. Could strongly benefit anyone who wants to move back to canada.
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Old 08-30-2016, 11:34 AM   #45
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I think property taxes are unfair.
What it means is when you buy a house, you never 'really' own it, because if you don't pay the property tax it is taken away, but if you buy a golf club you get to keep it for decades because there is no golf club tax.
So property taxes effectively remove the concept of owning your own home or land property.

The gov't should have tax based on income, not the value of something you paid for already.

Property tax is an inefficient way to collect $$ because renters don't pay it, and the theory is the landlord pays it and collects it from the renters, but lots of issues muddle this up like rent controls.

Sorry but it's way more complicated that "owning something". The earth cannot be owned. Nobody creates it. It is a commons. It has to be managed.

Historically only "The Sovereign" could own land and everything on it and in it. Feudal system. Snatch an apple, trap a rabbit and you could get executed for eating The Kings's (Sovereign's) apple.

In the modern era as we all know The People are The Sovereign. It is ultimately The People's Land. the "owner" cannot be The Sovereign. If you were George Foreman and I could simply invade your back yard, and since war is a historically recognized legitimate reason for taking land... now I'M THE KING!

This is Western Law since way way back. It is very obscure legalese to say the least, to most people and probably most lawyers, but that is why things are the way they are.

When other people can simply create new land into existence then we can manage the supply some better way.


Besides real estate (real here comes from The Realm ie The King's stuff) can make you rich without you doing anything ie deserving it. It's all the other components of society moving that makes real estate worth what it is sans any improvements. If you want the unwarranted wealth why bitch about the taxes? You don't like the taxes I guess it's not really worth much?

Owners always and everywhere want high real estate prices but low real estate values.
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Old 08-30-2016, 11:36 AM   #46
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I agree property taxes are unfair a 50% of ours goes to a school system we have never and will never use (No Kids). Now that is unfair!
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Old 08-30-2016, 02:36 PM   #47
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I agree property taxes are unfair a 50% of ours goes to a school system we have never and will never use (No Kids). Now that is unfair!
Everyone benefits from an educated population...
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Old 08-31-2016, 01:08 PM   #48
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Canadian real estate is in an interesting place right now due to very high prices, low affordability and anti foreign sentiment. Vancouver just initiated a 15% tax on foreign home buyers in order to cool their housing market:
Vancouver real estate vulnerable after tax on foreign buyers: Fitch - The Globe and Mail
I evaluated buying an apartment on Lonsdale Key to downsize from our 2000 sq.ft. rental penthouse in West Van. Here is the listing on zolo.ca

Price $1.3 million
Down $65000
Mortgage $5530 25 years amortization - 5 year term (maximums allowed)
Taxes $315
HOA $465
Total $6300 per month
Size 1035 sq.ft. on the 12th floor
Age 6 years

Although this place has nice water views and is close to restaurants, shops and transit, you can readily see the insanity of RE in Vancouver. Mortgage is not deductible, although capital gains are tax free on principle residence (no limit).

(Two 9-story condo apartments are being built in front of this building. So noise and disruption as well as some blockage of water views.)
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Old 08-31-2016, 01:24 PM   #49
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I think property taxes are unfair.
What it means is when you buy a house, you never 'really' own it....
Property tax is an inefficient way to collect $$ because renters don't pay it....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider View Post
I agree property taxes are unfair a 50% of ours goes to a school system we have never and will never use (No Kids). Now that is unfair!
Egads.

Let's presume that anyone who buys a property is not so ignorant and knows that in order to keep the property that they have to pay their property taxes.... if they think that is unfair then just don't buy! Similarly, if one doesn't think that property taxes are fair because they are used to fund education, then just don't buy! Life is unfair.. get used to it.
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Old 08-31-2016, 02:42 PM   #50
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Egads.

Let's presume that anyone who buys a property is not so ignorant and knows that in order to keep the property that they have to pay their property taxes.... if they think that is unfair then just don't buy! Similarly, if one doesn't think that property taxes are fair because they are used to fund education, then just don't buy! Life is unfair.. get used to it.
Second time you read something (of mine) and took it the wrong way. I said paying 50% is unfair not paying the taxes. I am offended by your post.
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Old 08-31-2016, 03:41 PM   #51
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Second time you read something (of mine) and took it the wrong way. I said paying 50% is unfair not paying the taxes. I am offended by your post.
I read your post as saying that property taxes are unfair because 50% of the property taxes that you pay go to fund schools.

I assume that when you purchased the property that you knew (or should have known) that ~50% of the property taxes went towards paying for education and that you still decided to buy... so you implicitly accepted that fact despite knowing that it in your view, isn't fair. As Music Lover points out, in the end we all benefit from a educated electorate.... and other childless property owners funded your education back in the day.

I'm sorry that you are offended by my post but I stand by it.
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Old 08-31-2016, 07:50 PM   #52
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.. if one doesn't think that property taxes are fair because they are used to fund education, then just don't buy! Life is unfair.. get used to it.
All taxes are unfair to someone because they are for the common good (at best) and that means that some people are paying for nothing. We pay for police and fire and have never explicitly used either!

But like you say, we already know that.
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:21 AM   #53
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Price $1.3 million
Size 1035 sq.ft. on the 12th floor
Ouch.

In San Diego right now, condos downtown are running from $500 - $1000 USD per sq ft. So I guess you're in good company.
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Old 09-02-2016, 06:19 PM   #54
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Egads.

Let's presume that anyone who buys a property is not so ignorant and knows that in order to keep the property that they have to pay their property taxes.... if they think that is unfair then just don't buy! Similarly, if one doesn't think that property taxes are fair because they are used to fund education, then just don't buy! Life is unfair.. get used to it.
That presumption would be based on the view that property taxes exist everywhere and they do not.

Here is an example
My family bought 9 acres of land, and built a large house on it, in the very early 1900's
There were no taxes on the property.
It remained owned free and clear for many decades, until some politicians in the local town decided "hey, lets tax those folks who are not even in our town".
Two towns fought over how to tax us, and in the end we got to "pick" which town got the taxes.

The rationale for taxing property, could easily be extended and used to tax savings. You have 1MM in your IRA, please pay 2% of the total every year since it too is a possession.
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Old 09-03-2016, 10:39 AM   #55
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The rationale for taxing property, could easily be extended and used to tax savings. You have 1MM in your IRA, please pay 2% of the total every year since it too is a possession.
In Canada, the FIs handle that for the uninformed.
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Old 09-03-2016, 12:57 PM   #56
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Canadian taxation is helping my nephew make a living...he's got a "brew it yourself" wine and beer store because to buy a bottle comparable to "three buck chuck", it costs them like $12. In the wine making store, the customers just pay, sprinkle yeast, and come back later to haul the cases home. It helps shape the Laffer curve of alcoholic beverages, lol!
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:51 PM   #57
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That presumption would be based on the view that property taxes exist everywhere and they do not.

Here is an example
My family bought 9 acres of land, and built a large house on it, in the very early 1900's
There were no taxes on the property.
It remained owned free and clear for many decades, until some politicians in the local town decided "hey, lets tax those folks who are not even in our town".
Two towns fought over how to tax us, and in the end we got to "pick" which town got the taxes.

The rationale for taxing property, could easily be extended and used to tax savings. You have 1MM in your IRA, please pay 2% of the total every year since it too is a possession.
Seems like you were lucky as property taxes have been around a long time.

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Property taxes in the United States originated during colonial times. By 1796, state and local governments in fourteen of the fifteen states taxed land, but only four taxed inventory (stock in trade). Delaware did not tax property, but rather the income from it. In some states, "all property, with a few exceptions, was taxed; in others, specific objects were named. Land was taxed in one state according to quantity, in another according to quality, and in a third not at all. Responsibility for the assessment and collection of taxes in some cases attached to the state itself; in others, to the counties or townships." Vermont and North Carolina taxed land based on quantity, while New York and Rhode Island taxed land based on value. Connecticut taxed land based on type of use. Procedures varied widely.

During the period from 1796 until the Civil War, a unifying principle developed: "the taxation of all property, movable and immovable, visible and invisible, or real and personal, as we say in America, at one uniform rate." During this period, property taxes came to be assessed based on value. This was introduced as a requirement in many state constitutions.

After the Civil War, intangible property, including corporate stock, took on far greater importance. Taxing jurisdictions found it difficult to find and tax this sort of property. This trend led to the introduction of alternatives to the property tax (such as income and sales taxes) at the state level. Property taxes remained a major source of government revenue below the state level.
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Old 09-03-2016, 08:47 PM   #58
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As hinted in #57 personal property used to be taxed as well. I remember the tax assessor coming to our home in IN in the 1950s to get the personal property for taxing. There also used to be intangibles taxes in MI for example the banks said they paid them for account holders. It turns out in Fl there is an intangibles tax of .015% on assets over 20k. It appears such taxes also exist at least in KS.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:03 PM   #59
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I think that would be "was an intangibles tax (in Florida)"
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Though it had an illustrious history dating back to the 1930s, the so-called Florida intangible personal property tax was gradually diminished since 1999 until it was finally rescinded in 2007.
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