The Case against Retirement

[NW-Bound]

Well, I am among the few who still work part-time. I am fortunate to be in a position where I still work in the same area that I spent my career in. For me, the benefits of working part-time are the following.

1) It pays well. We can live without this extra money, but being frugal all our lives, we need a LOT of margin to feel safe. Ever since my wife stays home and brings in no money, she has become even more averse to spending, for fear of having to go back to work. I don't know if she would rather sell a kidney (like Khan) than go back to work, but since my work pays well, I am the one to do it. The money would allow splurging on toys and travels. As I have become the spendthrift, I need to "show" her the money.

2) I actually ENJOY the work. Though it has to do with electronics, it does not really have a counterpart in consumer electronics, meaning that I cannot play at home doing the same as a hobby. I have always enjoyed my work, but more freedom from the BS megacorp bureaucracy allows me to concentrate more on my work.

3) It allows me to keep up-to-date. Why, you might wonder. Well, it is an intellectual challenge, just like anything else. And if people pay you for your time, it's tough to say no.

4) It allows me to maintain contacts with people in the same field. I like to talk shop with some of them.

I have seen some older guys still working at megacorps way past their useful professional lives. I politely and tactfully asked why they still came to work - I suspected that their reasons were not financial. One of them responded that he needed to get away from his wife, who also felt the same. Good grief! We never felt that way towards each other, or at least my wife has hidden that feeling well!

PS. wrote liver while I meant kidney.

[audreyh1]

I tell you - that working to stay away from spouse/kids has got to be the saddest reason of all!!!!

Audrey

[Moemg]

I'm also one of those part time workers . I was offered several flexible positions in my field Nursing but I opted instead to go a different route and start an ebay business . I enjoy the flexibility . It also motivates me to get moving and out of the house and it lets me indulge in shopping to my heart's content (not for me for my business ) . The extra it brings in is not needed but it is nice and most of it I give away to my relatives or charity . I had thought about volunteering but most of the volunteer positions did not interest me and I have no interest in golf (sorry Dawg ) or bridge clubs . I do read constantly and go to the gym but I still need more stimulation and this feels the bill for me . Working at a book store would interest me but I have no interest in a scheldue .

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moemg ...it lets me indulge in shopping to my heart's content...

There you go. There are many ways to entertain oneself. Just because it happens to make you a bit of money doesn't make it a bad activity.

[ksr]

I also work part-time. My career was in a high-tech field, and now I do something completely different: I teach several classes a week involving one of my hobbies. I love what I do and I appreciate the extra income.

As far as the need to get away from a spouse/partner, I understand the sentiment. Although I can entertain myself quite well, my SO does not have much in the way of interests or hobbies. Although I've threatened that he'd better not retire before he takes up some hobbies, I'm not sure he'll heed my advice. I can see that, down the line, I might still need to find some kind of pursuit outside the house just to keep my sanity. And that is not necessarily a bad thing - it gives us more to talk about when we've both been out of the house and busy for at least part of the day.

[Kroeran]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moemg I'm also one of those part time workers . I was offered several flexible positions in my field Nursing but I opted instead to go a different route and start an ebay business . I enjoy the flexibility . It also motivates me to get moving and out of the house and it lets me indulge in shopping to my heart's content (not for me for my business ) . The extra it brings in is not needed but it is nice and most of it I give away to my relatives or charity . I had thought about volunteering but most of the volunteer positions did not interest me and I have no interest in golf (sorry Dawg ) or bridge clubs . I do read constantly and go to the gym but I still need more stimulation and this feels the bill for me . Working at a book store would interest me but I have no interest in a scheldue .

My wife is retiring after managing a bookstore/gift shop for 27 years. She is thinking of volunteering or working in the health field, but I suspect she will end up loitering in the closest dog park or volunteering at a dog daycare, if anything. I think a big factor is the desire to experience something different than what you have been doing.

[Katsmeow]

I hope to retire in 2010 after a long career as an attorney. I foresee taking some time off but I could see working part time on something completely different. Used to I couldn't imagine a job that didn't pay comparable to what I could earn as an attorney. Once retired I could see the freedom to pursue interests that aren't well paid. Several years ago I had a small ebay business for awhile selling collectible cards. I absolutely loved doing it and found it fun. I quit doing it due to time but I could see doing something like that or tons of other things that have nothing to do with law.

[Kroeran]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound Well, I am among the few who still work part-time. I am fortunate to be in a position where I still work in the same area that I spent my career in. For me, the benefits of working part-time are the following. 1) It pays well. We can live without this extra money, but being frugal all our lives, we need a LOT of margin to feel safe. Ever since my wife stays home and brings in no money, she has become even more averse to spending, for fear of having to go back to work. I don't know if she would rather sell a kidney (like Khan) than go back to work, but since my work pays well, I am the one to do it. The money would allow splurging on toys and travels. As I have become the spendthrift, I need to "show" her the money. 2) I actually ENJOY the work. Though it has to do with electronics, it does not really have a counterpart in consumer electronics, meaning that I cannot play at home doing the same as a hobby. I have always enjoyed my work, but more freedom from the BS megacorp bureaucracy allows me to concentrate more on my work. 3) It allows me to keep up-to-date. Why, you might wonder. Well, it is an intellectual challenge, just like anything else. And if people pay you for your time, it's tough to say no. 4) It allows me to maintain contacts with people in the same field. I like to talk shop with some of them. I have seen some older guys still working at megacorps way past their useful professional lives. I politely and tactfully asked why they still came to work - I suspected that their reasons were not financial. One of them responded that he needed to get away from his wife, who also felt the same. Good grief! We never felt that way towards each other, or at least my wife has hidden that feeling well! PS. wrote liver while I meant kidney.

this pretty much describes my life

a lot of unknowns as we consider the transition

trying to take small steps and keep a path of retreat open

retirees tend to come back around here, but as contract workers, they suddenly have to produce 150%, rather than just go to meetings, delegate to subordinates, or just get by with 25% effort. They don't come back too many times.

seems you have more power by stepping down to pre-retirement or part-time, still in the system

[harley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by easysurfer I'm very, very happy that I'm retired. But just to add to this thread, here is another article on the case against retirement: 10-reasons-you-shouldnt-retire: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

I didn't see a single convincing reason in the list (other than the last one - not enough money). These articles never seem to take into consideration the people (like many of us) who actually want to retire and can afford to. I suspect the health studies focus on people who are forced to retire and are very stressed by it, probably due to item #10 (money). The social aspects are valid for those who either can't manage on their own without an outside pool of people like those in the office, or who prefer not to. I have enough friends and family without the co-workers. I didn't like most of them that much anyway. The tax issues are valid only if all your money is in tax advantaged accounts, and even then why did you bother saving it up if you are going to work until you die anyway? I personally couldn't give a hoot about society needing my contribution. And the one about hiding from your family is purely sad. Basically, retirement is wonderful for those who want it, and probably not that great for those that don't. These articles are really dumb, and proof that society doesn't need the authors' contributions and that they should probably consider retirement.

[Kroeran]

the other side of the contributing to society argument is that you should give up the job if you can afford it, so that someone who needs a job may have it.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kroeran retirees tend to come back around here, but as contract workers, they suddenly have to produce 150%, rather than just go to meetings, delegate to subordinates, or just get by with 25% effort. They don't come back too many times.

More than 10 years ago, I left the cradle of the megacorps to help found a couple of hi-tech startups, which eventually failed, leaving me empty handed after my efforts. I still maintain contacts and do occasional works for people I knew. The start-up jobs were really hard work. We used to say that gummint and even megacorp workers were just "crying babies".

Quote:

Originally Posted by harley I didn't see a single convincing reason in the list (other than the last one - not enough money)...

In a way, that would be true with me too. If I have $10M, I can convince myself that I do not need to keep up with the state-of-the-art stuff. Who cares, if he can spend the summer afternoon in a small village square in Provence watching a boule game, with a glass of pastis in hand?

But, since I have far less than $10M, I may have to convince myself that what I am still doing is really fun. Sigh...

[Khan]

Read the article. What a bunch of crap.
Only legitimate stuff I see is health insurance & income

[audreyh1]

Things might be a bit confusing in this thread as the OP posted an MSN article The case against retirement - MSN Money.

Later easysurfer posted a yahoo article 10-reasons-you-shouldnt-retire: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance .

Some have commented that the former article was not that bad. Many of the criticisms have been for the latter. Personally, I don't see much redeeming in the Yahoo article - that's about the lamest reasons not to retire list I have ever read. The only valid one(s) being that you can't afford to! (due to health insurance needs and/or savings). Well, duh!

It's funny, the yahoo article doesn't even try to give the strongest reason not to retire - "You enjoy your work"! Instead it gives the "Work adds meaning to your life" and "being an active member of the community" because you get up and go to work.

These reasons always dumbfound me as it implies that work is the ONLY thing that gives meaning to one's life and the ONLY way to be active in the community. So, there are absolutely no other aspects of one's life that might meet those criteria? Nothing that gives meaning outside work? No community one is an active member of other than the work community? When I read stuff like this I want to tell the author - "get a life!".

Audrey

[BunsGettingFirm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound PS. wrote liver while I meant kidney.

LOL! However, selling your liver would 100% ensure that you will never have to work again.

[BunsGettingFirm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kroeran this pretty much describes my life retirees tend to come back around here, but as contract workers, they suddenly have to produce 150%, rather than just go to meetings, delegate to subordinates, or just get by with 25% effort. They don't come back too many times. seems you have more power by stepping down to pre-retirement or part-time, still in the system

It is amazing how little some people manage to do everyday, isn't it? If coming to work means actually have to produce 100% of the time, 1/3 of my group needs to be canned right now. We have a director of QA who needs to go home at the drop of a hat. She seems to have a doctor's appointment either for herself or for her kids every Friday or Monday. If it's not doctor's appointment, it's the PTA or taking the car to the shop. We already have a work at home day every week. Schedule your appointments around lunch on that day like everybody else does. One time she bailed out at 1 PM because another co-worker's wife had some car trouble. Around Thanksgiving, she called in sick for one and a half week. It turns out later that her boyfriend was visiting from the West Coast. To top it off, it was revealed in the group meeting that she officially didn't enter any time off for the entire year. Strange, but I specifically recalled her taking two real vacations on top of the numerous unofficial time off for the other crap. A support guy sits around all day watching Hulu and pontificating about crap and getting on people's nerves just to entertain himself.

I think the ones who would make good consultants are the ones who are more interested in the work than in the office politics and who are still capable of doing the work.

[Martha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audreyh1 I tell you - that working to stay away from spouse/kids has got to be the saddest reason of all!!!! Audrey

Maybe not. I know a couple of really intense people and they would not likely remain married if they didn't regularly leave the house everyday to go to work. They get a family life but the family life is best in moderation. For everyone.

I also know someone who is married to a very wealthy man. She has kept a part time job during their entire marriage, even when pregnant. She like getting away. No less love for her spouse and children, she just needs the break.

[Tesaje]

The community thing seems oxymoronic to me. One of the things I look forward to when I retire is participating more in my local community. While working, I have no time for it. Long hours, long commutes and weekends filled with scrambling to keep house and home up (and failing to some extent) leaves no time for contributing to community. I think I am not alone in this as there have been many articles decrying the lack of community because people are always working...

[ziggy29]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tesaje The community thing seems oxymoronic to me. One of the things I look forward to when I retire is participating more in my local community. While working, I have no time for it. Long hours, long commutes and weekends filled with scrambling to keep house and home up (and failing to some extent) leaves no time for contributing to community. I think I am not alone in this as there have been many articles decrying the lack of community because people are always working...

This is why that "finding meaning in life through work" thing is so ridiculous.

For me, the types of things that would be most personally rewarding and "meaningful" are the types of things that I can't do much of because w*rk gets in the way. There's not much "meaningful" or personally fulfilling about designing reports and their database infrastructure for the corporate execs. Sure, there's some satisfaction in a job well done and some amount of recognition that may help job security, but I can get the former doing things I feel good about doing as well -- and the latter would be more irrelevant if I were FI and able to contemplate retirement.

[Meadbh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BunsGettingFirm LOL! However, selling your liver would 100% ensure that you will never have to work again.

Actually, that's not true. Unlike kidneys, which cannot be safely split, livers have "lobes" which are naturally separated by partitions. So you can sell donate a lobe of your liver and keep the others. One lobe each will do the job for both you and the recipient. Living Organ Donor Information on MedicineNet.com

[old woman]

I am indecisive about retirement. I am 61 and find I don't have anything I really want to do. I have been a housewife and hated it. I get time with my family on weekends and holidays so wouldn't see them weekdays anyhow. I do pretty much the same things at work as I would at home. I check some financial sites and play with some spreadsheets, then the last 1.25 hours I sit at the reception desk and play games. Everyone is nice and the work isn't hard and with profit sharing I get almost 70K for just showing up as well as medical insurance. So I will keep showing up until something happens. If I dread going to work I will retire. If my boyfriend retires and we want to move farther away I will retire. I have 423K saved for retirement and figure at 500K I could retire. I could work part time or start a little business to support myself until my portfolio grew but I like my job well enough and they pay me better than part time or self employment. I just like knowing if they fired me I would be fine so I don't need to stress at all.