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Old 01-31-2010, 01:39 PM   #21
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It sure made for some good conversations about following the rules.
Ain't that the truth!

I've generally led a "rule-following" life, probably to a fault. No rule bending. No interpreting rules to my favor. No ignoring uninforced rules. But lately it's occurred to me that there is little advantage to me to do this. The "feel good feelings" I used to gain from conducting myself so stingently don't feel so good anymore. Perhaps it's because of the way business, and most folks generally, conduct themselves. The world around me is full of gray area interpretations, half kept commitments, misleading advertisements, govt laws-rules-regulations designed to favor folks in power when they were written, liars, thieves and crooks. And, yes, those evil folks who pay for one salad bar and share some morsels off their plate with the kids.........

It's a frustrating world for a "say-do" guy!
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Old 01-31-2010, 04:40 PM   #22
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Ain't that the truth!

I've generally led a "rule-following" life, probably to a fault. No rule bending. No interpreting rules to my favor. No ignoring uninforced rules.
For another outlook, see "Well, it all depends on what is meant by is."
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Old 01-31-2010, 05:10 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by youbet View Post
Ain't that the truth!

I've generally led a "rule-following" life, probably to a fault. No rule bending. No interpreting rules to my favor. No ignoring uninforced rules. But lately it's occurred to me that there is little advantage to me to do this. The "feel good feelings" I used to gain from conducting myself so stingently don't feel so good anymore. Perhaps it's because of the way business, and most folks generally, conduct themselves. The world around me is full of gray area interpretations, half kept commitments, misleading advertisements, govt laws-rules-regulations designed to favor folks in power when they were written, liars, thieves and crooks. And, yes, those evil folks who pay for one salad bar and share some morsels off their plate with the kids.........

It's a frustrating world for a "say-do" guy!
my theory is that even small dishonesties lead to an internal mental disharmony, in that we are built with or evolved the need to self perceive as "good and honest"

anything you do to undermine this contributes to internal discomfort, agitation, when strong enough, or combined with other stressors, increases the chance of self-damaging behavior, self sabotage, which ends up being ten fold more expensive than just doing the right thing in the first place.

part of mental health is committing to complete and absolute honestly in all dealings, especially regarding things no-one would know about.

mental health is the foundation of sustainable wealth
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Old 01-31-2010, 06:53 PM   #24
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One of our perennial topics got an article on my newspaper blog. I like the razor they mention "imposing on others' goodwill".

Dollars and Sense : The fine line between frugal and inappropriate
In this case their is not a fine line between frugal and inappropriate. It's an 8 lane interstate highway and he's not even near an on-ramp. Plain and simple: This man is an ass.

Simple rule of thumb: If you wouldn't like others to know you do it, it is probably inappropriate.
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:42 PM   #25
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I've always found this subject interesting as it relates to cars.

People who drive an old Honda, Toyota, Volvo, etc., are seen as frugal.

But if you drive the same vintage Taurus, Buick, Cadillac, etc., you're likely viewed as being poor.
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:49 PM   #26
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This is not frugal. This is stealing. Letting interlopers like this into our LBYM world, tends to give us all a bad name.

I resent it because I have always been extremely honest about my LBYMing and would never consider obtaining a discount or freebee under false pretenses, much less steal anything. There are plenty of honest/crafty ways to "beat the system" without resorting to this.
What about this fact set:

Say a father of two very young children is sitting in line at walmart for 20 minutes waiting to check out. Say said two very young children are very hungry and their meal is being delayed (as is said father's meal) because walmart is too cheap to provide more than 2 cashiers at the check out lines. On their own initiative, the starving kids start eating grapes out of the produce bag in the cart. Is the father crossing an ethical line by allowing his starving children to eat the grapes while waiting unreasonably long periods of time due to poor staffing decisions by walmart?

Not an entirely hypothetical question, and let's just say my decision resulted in lots of free grapes! Don't worry, they usually overcharge me for something else and I don't realize it until I get to the car at which point it isn't worth it to complain. Fluid ethics...
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Old 02-02-2010, 06:02 PM   #27
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I've always found this subject interesting as it relates to cars.

People who drive an old Honda, Toyota, Volvo, etc., are seen as frugal.

But if you drive the same vintage Taurus, Buick, Cadillac, etc., you're likely viewed as being poor.
Beware of straying from cool. I once drove a Volvo (122S) for 325,000 miles. After which I sold it to some lady divorce lawyer for about $400 less I than I had paid for it 325,000 miles earlier.

Ha
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Old 02-02-2010, 06:40 PM   #28
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Life is the grey area ... years ago I ordered XP Home Upgrade for my PC only to find out you need XP Pro to upgrade from Windows 2000. Tried to return the purchase - to buy XP Pro - only to be told "sorry you broke the seal on the disk" (how else could I attempt to load the thing!?!). Now what I am reading here is that all you "rule followers" would say "Oh well, my bad ... I'll eat the loss" (over $100). I said "screw 'em .. they'll pay 10 fold" and proceeded to ship the disk to every person I knew who had an upgradeable version of Windows. And "borrowed" a copy of SE so I could upgrade my PC.

Inappropriate? You be the judge ...
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:06 PM   #29
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Life is the grey area ... years ago I ordered XP Home Upgrade for my PC only to find out you need XP Pro to upgrade from Windows 2000. Tried to return the purchase - to buy XP Pro - only to be told "sorry you broke the seal on the disk" (how else could I attempt to load the thing!?!). Now what I am reading here is that all you "rule followers" would say "Oh well, my bad ... I'll eat the loss" (over $100). I said "screw 'em .. they'll pay 10 fold" and proceeded to ship the disk to every person I knew who had an upgradeable version of Windows. And "borrowed" a copy of SE so I could upgrade my PC.

Inappropriate? You be the judge ...
Meets my seal of approval. But then, I am easy.

Ha
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:49 PM   #30
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What about this fact set:

Say a father of two very young children is sitting in line at walmart for 20 minutes waiting to check out. Say said two very young children are very hungry and their meal is being delayed (as is said father's meal) because walmart is too cheap to provide more than 2 cashiers at the check out lines. On their own initiative, the starving kids start eating grapes out of the produce bag in the cart. Is the father crossing an ethical line by allowing his starving children to eat the grapes while waiting unreasonably long periods of time due to poor staffing decisions by walmart?

Not an entirely hypothetical question, and let's just say my decision resulted in lots of free grapes! Don't worry, they usually overcharge me for something else and I don't realize it until I get to the car at which point it isn't worth it to complain. Fluid ethics...
The first time I went shopping after moving to New Orleans and needing food(Swegamans) I was behind a old guy in white fishermans boots who picked up a six pack - Dixie natch - opened a can, took a long pull and proceeded with the rest of his grocery list - later being from Colorado - I watched him check out - he was on his fifth can - she rang up the beer like it was the most normal thing in the world.

1976

Now when the local bar out in the swamp gave the mailman a 'free' beer when he brought the mail? Contract -not civil service.

heh heh heh - I stick to my original barometer - if she says it's cheap - I'd better back off a tad.

heh heh heh -
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:10 PM   #31
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heh heh heh - I stick to my original barometer - if she says it's cheap - I'd better back off a tad.

heh heh heh -
I hear ya. Kitty-Kat is costly, an intelligent man accepts this.

Ha
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:16 AM   #32
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Life is the grey area ... years ago I ordered XP Home Upgrade for my PC only to find out you need XP Pro to upgrade from Windows 2000. Tried to return the purchase - to buy XP Pro - only to be told "sorry you broke the seal on the disk" (how else could I attempt to load the thing!?!). Now what I am reading here is that all you "rule followers" would say "Oh well, my bad ... I'll eat the loss" (over $100). I said "screw 'em .. they'll pay 10 fold" and proceeded to ship the disk to every person I knew who had an upgradeable version of Windows. And "borrowed" a copy of SE so I could upgrade my PC.

Inappropriate? You be the judge ...
Was it the retailer who told you you could not return the purchase? If so, you probably could have called Microsoft. They may have been willing to ship out a copy of XP Pro if you paid the difference. If Microsoft told you you couldn't return it....then I don't really think its inappropriate at all. That's just poor customer service.
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:22 PM   #33
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Was it the retailer who told you you could not return the purchase?
It was a retailer (CompUSA?). Never saw the compatability restrictions until I went to the Microsoft website.
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:24 PM   #34
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Taking a lady out to dinner at a restaurant where you use a coupon: Tacky.
Taking your LBYM wife out to dinner at a restaurant where you use a coupon: Frugal.
(I have been the lady in both cases).

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I hear ya. Kitty-Kat is costly, an intelligent man accepts this.

Ha
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:51 PM   #35
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I was at a conference this week and one of the exhibitors was giving out nice cloth shopping bags. One of the attendess I know proceeded to visit the break stations and fill the bag with Splenda, tea bags, hot chocolate packets, etc. Her rationale was that it had been paid for by the conference fee and anything left over is just excess profit for the conference center. I thought it was kind of chintzy at first, but then later regretted not following her example . Sort of like taking the unused soap, shampoo and other disposable stuff when you check out. I do that regularly and then donate them to homeless shelters.
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Old 05-15-2010, 06:46 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by tryan View Post
Life is the grey area ... years ago I ordered XP Home Upgrade for my PC only to find out you need XP Pro to upgrade from Windows 2000. Tried to return the purchase - to buy XP Pro - only to be told "sorry you broke the seal on the disk" (how else could I attempt to load the thing!?!). Now what I am reading here is that all you "rule followers" would say "Oh well, my bad ... I'll eat the loss" (over $100). I said "screw 'em .. they'll pay 10 fold" and proceeded to ship the disk to every person I knew who had an upgradeable version of Windows. And "borrowed" a copy of SE so I could upgrade my PC.

Inappropriate? You be the judge ...
Sounds like you like Microsoft as much as I do. I'm doing a slow shift to Linix but am having problems with printer and scanner
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Old 05-15-2010, 09:14 AM   #37
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I was at a conference this week and one of the exhibitors was giving out nice cloth shopping bags. One of the attendess I know proceeded to visit the break stations and fill the bag with Splenda, tea bags, hot chocolate packets, etc. Her rationale was that it had been paid for by the conference fee and anything left over is just excess profit for the conference center. I thought it was kind of chintzy at first, but then later regretted not following her example . Sort of like taking the unused soap, shampoo and other disposable stuff when you check out. I do that regularly and then donate them to homeless shelters.
What if conference center were planning to donate those left-overs to the organization of their choice?

Or planning to use them for their next conference thus lowering each conference costs?
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:14 PM   #38
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Her rationale was that it had been paid for by the conference fee and anything left over is just excess profit for the conference center.
Seems to be at least what my mother would call "tacky", a southern expression meaning "in poor taste". I wonder if the conference center manager had been standing there watching if she would have filled her goody bag, or waited until later.
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Old 05-15-2010, 02:52 PM   #39
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Seems to be at least what my mother would call "tacky", a southern expression meaning "in poor taste". I wonder if the conference center manager had been standing there watching if she would have filled her goody bag, or waited until later.
I wonder if she would have filled her goody bag if her mother had been standing there watching her...
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Old 05-15-2010, 04:04 PM   #40
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I wonder if she would have filled her goody bag if her mother had been standing there watching her...
If my mother had been there watching me, she would have already snagged all the good stuff. That's cheap, not frugal!

Although I think it is merely frugal when I help out at work by taking leftovers home from company provided meals. Perfectly good food that would otherwise end up in the trash soon. And there are plenty of other leftover takers there too.
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