The "In case of Death" plan

[2177V]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwraigty vchan2177 you appear to be inferring a lot from a60dan's post. People may use a variety of means to keep their spouses/heirs informed of their assets, so that nothing gets missed. That's all that I'm inferring from his post. BTW, if the daughter were to be sued, her legal share of the jointly-titled assets would be at risk, even if she didn't actually contribute one penny to the accounts. For that reason, I don't recommend titling a financial account with significant assets with a non-spouse, but to each their own. Even without a will or POD (which I highly recommend), the daughter would probably be first in line to inherit after the deaths of both parents under state law. More distant relatives would have no claim on her late parent's assets. The daughter can be made aware of the location of assets without the need for getting paper statements in the mail. A simple list of accounts with names of the financial institution, or a printed copy of an electronic statement for each account would suffice to inform the daughter of their existence. Balances and account numbers could be removed for privacy, of course.

The whole point that I was trying to make is simply a suggestion how to AVOID probate.

Your statement of "the daughter would probably be first in line" is likely a true statement. However, the daughter may have to go to probate court before the money is disbursed. This may take some time. For example, the daughter may have to make a public announcement of the probate court date in the newspaper for anybody to attend the court date to make a claim on the estate. People should avoid this process whenever possible.

Making a list is OK for informational purposes. However the list is just that....for informational purposes. This list does not authorize disbursement of money without a joint account, POD account and/or probate order. This is why they have living trust seminars, estate attorneys and/or probate regulations online for the public to read. As a public service, some counties even offer free attorney services if you have a general question on estate planning.

There are ways to avoid probate...and making an informational list does not do that.

My Mom consulted an estate attorney before she passed away. She set up one joint account with one of her sons to pay for her funeral expenses immediately. The rest were POD accounts and Enhanced Life Estate Deed for the house because disbursement for the POD accounts and Enhanced Life Estate takes a little more time to transfer the assets. When the family opened her bank safe deposit box, her gold coins and jewelry all had name tags on who the assets belong to. Since the Safe Deposit assets was less than the threshold amount for probate in the state of California, probate was not needed for this division of assets. Each state may have different threshold amounts.

[jebmke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crabby Mike Sad to say, in light of recent crashes, but "if the plane goes down" they're not likely to have your cell phone to authenticate anything. Just sayin' ...

Unless they are named on the account they have no legal right to be going in there anyway.

[2177V]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mexexpat When my FIL died some of the smaller insurance policies paid out before we had the death certificate in hand....they asked if there was a newspaper obituary and when/where printed. They paid out within days based on that and the children's claims/paperwork. Surprised us, but true. FWIW, I would recommend having an obit with pertinent info.

The obituary is a public announcement that your FIL has passed away. A death certificate is not a public announcement. The children claims probably involve a certification statement under the penalty of perjury that your FIL has passed away.

When my family consulted an estate attorney about whether my Mom's estate needed to go through probate, the attorney also wanted to make sure the obituary is published. There are people who wants to keep the passing a secret (to continue to collect the social security payments, disbursing money without going probate, etc)

[2177V]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebmke Unless they are named on the account they have no legal right to be going in there anyway.

That is exactly my point about naming a beneficiary to all your accounts as a POD account.....or making the accounts a joint account.

Just because you give someone your passcode....that someone has no legal right to transfer funds to their own personal account. This system is based on protecting the depositor.

The bank has to make the fund transfer from a POD account. They can only do it with a death certificate, an ID of the beneficiary and beneficiary has to sign a certified statement under the penalty of perjury.

[gwraigty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vchan2177 The whole point that I was trying to make is simply a suggestion how to AVOID probate. Your statement of "the daughter would probably be first in line" is likely a true statement. However, the daughter may have to go to probate court before the money is disbursed. This may take some time. For example, the daughter may have to make a public announcement of the probate court date in the newspaper for anybody to attend the court date to make a claim on the estate. People should avoid this process whenever possible. Making a list is OK for informational purposes. However the list is just that....for informational purposes. This list does not authorize disbursement of money without a joint account, POD account and/or probate order. This is why they have living trust seminars, estate attorneys and/or probate regulations online for the public to read. As a public service, some counties even offer free attorney services if you have a general question on estate planning. There are ways to avoid probate...and making an informational list does not do that.

You're preaching to the choir as far as I, personally, am concerned. I'm just seeing various ways people have chosen to point their survivors in the right starting direction immediately after their deaths, including spouses who may not even know how to locate or pay the light bill.

No, obviously an informational list doesn't authorize disbursement of accounts. It does give a surviving spouse or child knowledge that such accounts exist and where. The survivor can then contact those financial institutions to have joint accounts properly titled in their name only, or obtain the claim forms to have the funds disbursed to named POD beneficiaries, whichever is applicable. My document for my husband naturally has different instructions that my document for our kids.

[gwraigty]

My apologies if I seem touchy. I know topics go off on tangents all the time.

Here there's a mix of taking steps of how to help survivors in the beginning with the most basic of household financial tasks so they don't find themselves in the dark and foreclosed upon, with a lecture on how to avoid probate and avoid illegally accessing funds. IMO, the two are separate issues. I was originally contributing to the former, as many were.

[2177V]

The forum is "In Case of Death Plan" . In 2006, I volunteered to serve in Afghanistan as a Civilian Engineer because I was ex-military. I produced an informational binder for my wife in the event I came home in a box. When my Mom passed away, I then got to know about probate. i decided to share this information in this forum. While both issues are separate....both issues are also relevant to "In case of Death" subject and to any survivors.

Later, I decided to change my informational binder into a Excel Spreadsheet identifying all of the family monthly budget. This has 5 categories: 1. House Expenses (property taxes, utilities) 2. Insurance Expenses (life insurance, house insurance, auto insurance) 3. Automotive Expenses (DMV registration, gas) 4. Discretionary (Credit cards, cell phone) 5. Miscellaneous (groceries, medication, entertainment).

Unfortunately my wife does not even want to look at the family budget because she know that I take care of the budget. She just wants me to live long. I had to let my daughter know about the family budget as a backup. From my excel spreadsheet of the family budget, my survivors can then use this information to continue paying the bills without me. The critical components are the insurances policies which are locked inside the family safe. I also look at my family budget to manage my expenses while I am alive.

Everyone has a different approach on how to take care of your survivors. The original commenter asked about how to sell or dispose of miscellaneous stuff that the survivors do not need. Generally the survivors would hold an estate sale or a garage sale. It is difficult to give this responsibility to a stranger and the survivors may need some time to grieve. I would suggest thinking about a friend or a distant relative to fill this need.

[RetireAge50]

My wife knows how to take care of all the finances as well as I do. Not too much stuff around here so I’ll just toss out the wife’s clothes. She will get rid of my motorcycles. I like the idea of hanging out at the beach in Hawaii. Might have to implement that right away.

[GreatLaker]

I live alone and no family within 500 miles.

I created two documents. First is an Emergency Contact Info file with family and medical contact numbers. Printed copies are on my fridge and my desk corkboard. Second is a Personal and Financial info file that is password protected. It has account numbers, passwords, property roll numbers etc. Both those files are on my PC in a directory named !IMPORTANT INFORMATION. The ! at the start ensures it is at the top of the directory list.

A copy of my will and POA are in the top drawer of my desk, plus a key to my lockbox. Original of my will and POA are in a lockbox where my executor and POAs know where to find it.

Now comes the creative part. The Emergency file has a line that states a hint for unlocking the personal and financial info file. That hint is something the family members that are executors and POA would easily decipher, but unlikely anyone else would. And the hint does not print, so its not on the copies on my fridge and desk.

There are still a few items I want to add to my emergency file, like final wishes and who to notify when I pass on.

But I think I have things fairly well covered compared to most people, so emergency personnel can assist me and family members will be able to deal with my accounts and other important details without too much scrambling.

[GreatLaker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum A note on my Facebook account will get word out to most people I know. What could I be missing?

Something many people probably don't know is that when someone passes away their FB account may get memorialized, which means no one can log in to it any more. Consider adding a Legacy Contact to your FB profile.

What will happen to my Facebook account if I pass away?

What is a legacy contact and what can they do?

[denstl]

Has anyone looked into Vanguard's Trustee Service? Seems like a reasonable way to have a knowledgeable group handle executing a trust. 0.55% on first $5M for advising and trust services. The annual trust administration fee covers trust administration or consulting, principal and income accounting, tax preparation and filing, beneficiary communications, and related administrative services. Thinking my DW would appreciate that assistance and if we were both gone, a way to have the trust managed according to our wishes. I self manage our assets now but if I was not here or able to do so, probably need someone to assist my wife.

[gwraigty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by denstl Has anyone looked into Vanguard's Trustee Service? Seems like a reasonable way to have a knowledgeable group handle executing a trust. 0.55% on first $5M for advising and trust services. The annual trust administration fee covers trust administration or consulting, principal and income accounting, tax preparation and filing, beneficiary communications, and related administrative services. Thinking my DW would appreciate that assistance and if we were both gone, a way to have the trust managed according to our wishes. I self manage our assets now but if I was not here or able to do so, probably need someone to assist my wife.

Disclaimer: I have no experience with trusts.

I'm biased against Vanguard because of experiences we've had that have shown them to be less than competent. That said, if someone needs or wants a lot of assistance, I'd think it better to choose a firm where you might have a local office nearby.

https://www.fidelity.com/managed-acc...trust-services

https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab...trust_services

There may be other investment firms that have local offices. TDAmeritrade allows trusts, but their website didn't indicate whether they would provide an expansive level of trust services.

[kgtest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwraigty Disclaimer: I have no experience with trusts. I'm biased against Vanguard because of experiences we've had that have shown them to be less than competent. That said, if someone needs or wants a lot of assistance, I'd think it better to choose a firm where you might have a local office nearby. https://www.fidelity.com/managed-acc...trust-services https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab...trust_services There may be other investment firms that have local offices. TDAmeritrade allows trusts, but their website didn't indicate whether they would provide an expansive level of trust services.

Nice "feature". Best to supply codes to 1. Phone, 2. Accounts (FB, Email) that way MFA can be used to just login as the deceased, and then write that info in along with other will-related docs.

But that is a good option for someone to know when they write a will for sure. So I would state, if desired, Legacy Mode can be enabled and delegated to Mrs kgtest, or the account can be disabled or maintained using supplied logins.

Good to make note of any accounts that DO have MFA access in the will as well. Multi-Factor Authentication ie Text the phone to confirm you Are who you are, before login access is granted. Or click the email link before login is granted.

Great, now I need to add a note on Digital Posessions, including social media and other online accounts and portals.

[2177V]

Quote:

Originally Posted by denstl Has anyone looked into Vanguard's Trustee Service? Seems like a reasonable way to have a knowledgeable group handle executing a trust. 0.55% on first $5M for advising and trust services. The annual trust administration fee covers trust administration or consulting, principal and income accounting, tax preparation and filing, beneficiary communications, and related administrative services. Thinking my DW would appreciate that assistance and if we were both gone, a way to have the trust managed according to our wishes. I self manage our assets now but if I was not here or able to do so, probably need someone to assist my wife.

0.55% times $5M = $27,500. Is this a one time fee or yearly fee? $5M is a lot of money to have a total stranger who may be out of state manage this money. Have you talked to Charles Schwab who may be local? Disclosure: My daughter works for Charles Schwab but I do have investments with Vanguard.

I always felt better to meet with the person or trustee directly and having a meeting in order to build trust. Usually, this happens over lunch which the potential trustee picks up the lunch tab. Asking the right questions and getting the right answers in person is much better than a phone call.

[Brat]

My DS's MIL has been having mini-strokes recently. Talking to SIL about end-of-life planning for her has not been something she is ready to discuss. We belong to Oregon Memorial Assn which has a contract with a local mortuary. In the next week or two, I will give them an envelope with 'in case of our death' that provides them with information about our plans and, perhaps, gives DIL something to consider.

All the estate stuff is in our files but the decision about what to do with our remains would be immediate.

[denstl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vchan2177 0.55% times $5M = $27,500. Is this a one time fee or yearly fee? $5M is a lot of money to have a total stranger who may be out of state manage this money. Have you talked to Charles Schwab who may be local? Disclosure: My daughter works for Charles Schwab but I do have investments with Vanguard. I always felt better to meet with the person or trustee directly and having a meeting in order to build trust. Usually, this happens over lunch which the potential trustee picks up the lunch tab. Asking the right questions and getting the right answers in person is much better than a phone call.

It is an annual fee. 0.25% Annual Trust Admin Fee plus 0.30% Annual Advisory Fee. True you cannot sit down with anyone in person with Vanguard. Can do a virtual meeting which is fine for me. But I was paying over 1% annual advisory fee with my previous financial adviser before taking it on myself (and seeing better results). I do not plan on using an adviser any time soon. But my DW is concerned if I go first. Plus thinking about changing our trust so our kids and grandkids do not get any money we leave behind right away. Maybe a little at time of the last of my wife or my death, and the rest many years down the road. Probably the only reason I kind of like the Vanguard Trust approach. Hopefully with the annual advisor they can continue to grow our legacy. And the Trust side makes sure our wished are handled accordingly.

Just a thought at this point and have not looked at other potential trust services or if we even need to get that in place. Surely one of our kids can be trusted to manage whatever we are able to leave behind.