The need for Toys and the desire to FIRE

[Mikegt4]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jIMOh Or is it I need to FIRE and I desire to have toys? I am currently running through the math on being able to afford an electric car (a Tesla). If a $90,000 car could last "forever" (the motor has an infinite life according to sales pitch, the battery is less known), I am considering this to be more of an expense moderator (I drop $500-$750/mo on gas easily). Any thoughts from the peanut gallery? Thx

Since I live close to Milford, Ohio I can assure you that no car lasts "forever" around here unless you don't drive it the 5 "winter" months of the year. Governments dump copious amounts of salt or Calcium Chloride on the streets which is about the same as throwing acid on your car. Body, suspension, brakes and fuel lines rust to unsafe condition long before the engine wears out.

With that kind of monthly gas expense I would think that driving a Civic, Corolla, Cruze or Focus would cut your spending by 2/3.

As a lifelong gearhead I would categorize a Tesla as an "automotive appliance" (although interesting technology), not a "toy". IMHO, money would be better spent (saved) with a dedicated modest daily driver (see above) and a performance or classic car for the weekend. You could easily buy both for less than half the price of a Tesla. With a bit of careful shopping even an automotive icon such as a Ferrari 308 (think Magnum PI) can be had for 30-35K. What will a Tesla be worth when it is 35 years old?

edit for the OP
To see some proper automotive toys, go to the cruise-in held every Friday night at the east end of the Rt 28 by-pass behind the Wendy's.

[ERD50]

Why so many miles? Just asking.

If this is really an 'expense moderator', I'd love to see your calculations.

If it is a 'toy', then no one else's opinion matters. It is up to you to determine the relative value and whether you can afford the absolute $$$.

-ERD50

[daylatedollarshort]

I think the Thomas Stanley point about the F150 is that some millionaire next door types have blue collar businesses like farmer, scrap metal dealer, auctioneer, rental property management and plumbing business owner where a pickup truck can come in handy. One of the reasons they can become MNDs is because farmers often don't have the same social expectations to wear designer suits and drive luxury cars, unlike a surgeon or a stock broker might, so it leaves more money to be reinvested in their businesses.

I think his car choice numbers are based on actual surveys of millionaires, which is what made his books interesting - the idea that there is often an inverse relationship to the trappings of wealth and net worth, precisely because money spent on trappings cannot be reinvested in a business or stocks and bonds.

[aja8888]

I still consult part time to the energy industry. Ok, really the oil & gas sector.

I have been to West Texas, South Texas, Oklahoma, North and South Dakota, etc, etc so many times I don't need a map or a Garmin to get around. This is where the pick up trucks are, and the drivers are generally millionaires who are out checking equipment, meeting with contractors, meeting with me (ha!), or at the local spot for lunch. They dress in Levie's and cowboy hats (really). They keep their Ferrari's in the garage back in Dallas at their other home.

I have a 2002 Dodge Ram SLT crew cab, and I think I am finally worth a million. I also drive a Jetta diesel when not in the truck. Maybe I should sell the old Ram and get an F-150?

[stepford]

Everybody has toys they crave and $90K is no more intrinsically unreasonable than $9K or $900K depending both on your financial circumstances and on how central the toy is to your happiness. I used to fly various aircraft quite a lot and had friends who were somewhat impoverished by the planes they "had" to have. Though it may not have made sense to others it was the only thing that made them happy and who are we to second guess that.

That said, as a gearhead of long standing I would think that one of the great advantages of ER is having the time to tinker - and thus to build/repair whatever wheeled or winged fancy ones heart desires. While building up a Tesla in ones garage may be overambitious for most of us, dropping a new motor into a worn out sports car to get a cheap fast toy is definitely part of my retirement game plan.

[bld999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888 I still consult part time to the energy industry. Ok, really the oil & gas sector. I have been to West Texas, South Texas, Oklahoma, North and South Dakota, etc, etc so many times I don't need a map or a Garmin to get around. This is where the pick up trucks are, and the drivers are generally millionaires who are out checking equipment, meeting with contractors, meeting with me (ha!), or at the local spot for lunch. They dress in Levie's and cowboy hats (really). They keep their Ferrari's in the garage back in Dallas at their other home. I have a 2002 Dodge Ram SLT crew cab, and I think I am finally worth a million. I also drive a Jetta diesel when not in the truck. Maybe I should sell the old Ram and get an F-150?

""Leroy! can you take this pump into town and find some shaft seals for it? It's squeeling and making a mess up here. Aw, Ed, I'm in the Ferrari today, even the trunk rug is worth more than that thing. Have the service company bring one out. "" See, if he had the truck today...

[donheff]

If I was doing a OMY thing approaching ER I think I would retire and wait 5 years before making a splurge purchase. By then you have either bypassed the most devastating early year financial scenarios and can consider a splurge or you are already quaking in your boots and are glad you waited. On the other hand, maybe in if you bought the car under scenario 2 you would just be glad that you moved $90K out of the way of the tsunami and can console yourself with a nice ride to the Dollar Store.

[kcowan]

My business partner drove an F150 during the 90s, but come time to upgrade, he switched to a minivan because the costs of the F150 had escalated so much by 2004.

[rodi]

I love teslas. There seem to be more and more of them on the road here in San Diego.
I saw one yesterday on my commute home and was admiring it. From the 1995 dodge pickup I was driving.

I'd rather retire in less than 2 weeks than spend the money on a tesla.

[rodi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound How about this one, whose interior is roomier than many studios in London or NYC?

So... How many gallons/mile do you get with that?

[NW-Bound]

Well, as they say, "If you have to ask..."

But I did check out the price. This 8x8 all-terrain vehicle (eat your heart out, 4-wheelers) is the German UNICAT MXXL 24-AH, and it starts at $3 million. It has some unique features, such as tire pressures being adjustable while driving (saves you the trouble of getting out to deflate the tires for sand traps). It has 9 ACs, and carries 1,000 liters of fresh water.

Here's more info if you like to order.

[Andre1969]

One thing to consider about that Ford claim, is that Ford doesn't break out F-150 sales, versus the F-250 and up trucks. And, starting in 1997, the F-150 was a completely different truck than the F-250 and up. Whereas Chevy/GMC and Dodge would just put the existing body and cab down on a beefier frame and suspension to come up with their 3/4 ton and larger trucks, Ford came out with a completely different truck. So, Ford just calls it "F-Series".

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Bird In Hand So just because you saw a Porche doesn't mean that the Porche's owner wasn't out driving his F-150 at that moment.

His Honey was driving the Carrera, while megabucks was out taking his shovels and brooms for a ride? I suppose it could happen.

Ha

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort I think the Thomas Stanley point about the F150 is that some millionaire next door types have blue collar businesses like farmer, scrap metal dealer, auctioneer, rental property management and plumbing business owner where a pickup truck can come in handy. One of the reasons they can become MNDs is because farmers often don't have the same social expectations to wear designer suits and drive luxury cars, unlike a surgeon or a stock broker might, so it leaves more money to be reinvested in their businesses.

Another reason is that it is hard for farmer with a big herd, or a reasonable acreage if a grain farmer , to not be a millionaire. Also, many of them inherit considerable acreage, and a pickup.

I used to live in an ag town. Likely all the farmers were millionaires, and I saw plenty Ford PUs but no Porsches or Ferraris. So I guess your point is proven. Of course these farmers wore mostly bib overalls too, which might not go with Ferraris very well.

Ha

[eytonxav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha I used to live in an ag town. Likely all the farmers were millionaires, and I saw plenty Ford PUs but no Porsches or Ferraris. So I guess your point is proven. Of course these farmers wore mostly bib overalls too, which might not go with Ferraris very well. Ha

Ha, they hide those exotics in the barn. It always amazed me when watching the Pickers TV show at some of the exotic antique cars hidden in barns for years and years.

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha Another reason is that it is hard for farmer with a big herd, or a reasonable acreage if a grain farmer , to not be a millionaire. Also, many of them inherit considerable acreage, and a pickup. I used to live in an ag town. Likely all the farmers were millionaires, and I saw plenty Ford PUs but no Porsches or Ferraris. So I guess your point is proven. Of course these farmers wore mostly bib overalls too, which might not go with Ferraris very well. Ha

I am not trying to prove any point. I am relaying tidbits I found interesting in books and blogs post written by a marketing professor from the University of Georgia who surveyed and researched the affluent for a living.

If you think his research is incorrect or fabricated because it differs from your personal observations, that is certainly your choice.

[FUEGO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha Another reason is that it is hard for farmer with a big herd, or a reasonable acreage if a grain farmer , to not be a millionaire. Also, many of them inherit considerable acreage, and a pickup. I used to live in an ag town. Likely all the farmers were millionaires, and I saw plenty Ford PUs but no Porsches or Ferraris. So I guess your point is proven. Of course these farmers wore mostly bib overalls too, which might not go with Ferraris very well.

I think farmers and small business owners are the typical millionaires out there. And today, I'd add tech workers to the mix.

I know a lot more wealthy people that drive non-luxury cars (or barely luxury like 10+ year old imports) than I do wealthy people with fancy cars.

[NW-Bound]

My sister and I drive generic (and also old) cars. We both have multi-million assets.

My two younger brothers drive BMW SUVs. Though we do not share personal wealth info, I know that they do OK financially, but also that their net worth is not up to $1M. Oh, they also live in bigger homes than ours (3,500+sq.ft., instead of 2,500+sq.ft.).

[bld999]

I went to a few classic car and motorcycle auctions in the past. About half the heavies knocking down the most expensive stuff were wearing overalls.

[splitwdw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha Of course these farmers wore mostly bib overalls too, which might not go with Ferraris very well. Ha

And no way am I letting a guy with metal rivets and metal hooks to get in my expensive car or truck. He might scratch the flashy plastic interior!! HA! I can not tell a lie, even if you drive a car that you use the back seat for a garbage pail (got a friend that does that). If I've got mud on my shoes I'm going to do my darnest to clean my shoes before getting in.

NW-Bound, I'm looking to travel around the US and visit all my multi-millionaire "acquaintance". Shall I bring the truck or the vette? After paying for gas (the range on all the vehicles is from 9 to 30 mpg) you'll have to put me up........buy food and souvenirs. Whose the next multi-millionaire to visit?

My friend with the pigpen back seat I can't figure out. Her house isn't like that, it's neat as a pin.
Buy the Tesla, if you've always wanted one then enjoy it while you can.